Monday 4th January 2016 - Rail Chaos/Meltdown predicted

[HarleyDavidson]

Christchurch is reportedly 28hrs behind. Only rumoured though.

 

[PrinceBishop]

Well I could mention last Christmas at Finsbury Park - have you forgotton? Did the Daily Mail make that up?

Quite. I don't think the media was responsible for the 'shambles' (an appropriate use of the word) we saw last year. As a railway passenger and a tax payer I'm quite pleased the media put pressure on over bonuses. I think it would be highly inappropriate for senior executives to receive rewards after presiding over such a mess.

Also, on the subject of railway employees not receiving praise when they get it right, (and they get it right most of the time to be fair) most people don't get praise when they perform well in their jobs, they get paid. I'm afraid 'Man does job competently' isn't news. That said, I am happy to give my praise and thanks to all the men and women who do good work 24/7 to keep our railway operating smoothly and I wish them all a happy new year.

I'm not here to defend the Daily Mail, or the rest of the media, they are guilty of sensationalism and exaggeration on a regular basis. But let's not fool ourselves that all negative coverage is unwarranted.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But let's not fool ourselves that all negative coverage is unwarranted.

The coverage last year was well over and above what was justified or appropriate, and it contributed to what can only be described as a clusterf**k of epic proportions.

I don't really understand why they can't employ transport or railway correspondents who actually understand the situation and relay accurate information to their readers, the imbeciles, one of whom can't get the abbreviation correct for the Department for Transport, pass on incorrect information or fail to explain the issues, cause passengers to become confused and in turn angry, creating a self perpetuating problem.

We are dealing with a railway network that's rapidly approaching 200 years old, built by a vast array of different companies, with different engineering approaches, some of it was built to very different gauges, things will go wrong, now the issues at Finsbury Park drifted from being a problem with physical railway to being a planning and preparedness problem, but ultimately, it was slower than expected progress which was the underlying problem, and not being able to accurately predict progress on engineering projects is a recurring problem which is not at all easy to crack, whether it's an overnight or weekend possession, or a bigger Christmas or Easter project.

The reality of the situation is this - no matter how many ground surveys and core samples you take, no matter how much planning and preparation you put into engineering works, something will catch you out or slow you down.

What's probably needed is an acceptance problems could arise, and for tickets valid around the Christmas/New Year and Easter holiday periods to be fully flexible - any operator, any route (reasonable or otherwise) and any day within a December 23 to January 5 sort of window.

 

[jimm]

Regardless, there will still be the headlines under the fare rises banner, with reference to the problems LAST Christmas.

Really? So where are these headlines? I can't see any online taking this angle, just some article on the Daily Mail site with the Labour Party offering renationalisation as a universal cure-all and pretending that fares have only risen since 2010, when I could have sworn I was paying a lot more for my tickets in 2009 than in 1997.

If dammage to Lamington Viaduct is as bad as currently thought then the job will I assume be stopped on the Scottish end of the WCML for a while, an ideal target for journos. Other than that ful creddit to all for by and large a smooth and productive festive period.

Why should it be an ideal target for the media? Even they might just be able to recognise that the damage to the viaduct and consequent closure of the line for stark staring obvious safety reasons is a result of the current weather conditions and related flooding.

I'm afraid 'Man does job competently' isn't news.

In the case of the bridge replacement at Swindon over Christmas, it was:

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/...tratton_Green_Bridge_replaced_over_Christmas/

 

[edwin_m]

If dammage to Lamington Viaduct is as bad as currently thought then the job will I assume be stopped on the Scottish end of the WCML for a while, an ideal target for journos. Other than that ful creddit to all for by and large a smooth and productive festive period.

May be too far from London to attract the full attention of the media? Certainly it doesn't seem to have made the front page of the BBC website yet, and I agree it is looks like the most serious piece of damage both in terms of the importance of the route and the likely time to repair.

Unless some twerp decides it's actually in Leamington.

 

[Kite159]

Did anybody mention the bound to happen signal failure at fenchurch street?

Which meant hard hit commuters had to change at Barking for an "old" D-stock train to the city

 

[Howardh]

Have any staff been taken off Network Rail planned engineering to fix problems (eg landslips near me) caused by the recent flooding - and if so has that caused any delays?

Or was it handy that the bad weather was off-peak and the workforce was available to fix any problems? (If any of that makes any sense..??)

 

[L&Y Robert]

We are dealing with a railway network that's rapidly approaching 200 years old, built by a vast array of different companies, with different engineering approaches, some of it was built to very different gauges, things will go wrong, now the issues at Finsbury Park drifted from being a problem with physical railway to being a planning and preparedness problem, but ultimately, it was slower than expected progress which was the underlying problem, and not being able to accurately predict progress on engineering projects is a recurring problem which is not at all easy to crack, whether it's an overnight or weekend possession, or a bigger Christmas or Easter project.

The reality of the situation is this - no matter how many ground surveys and core samples you take, no matter how much planning and preparation you put into engineering works, something will catch you out or slow you down.

I have often wondered, and sometimes questioned, how the timetable for a job - any job - is established. It is hideously difficult to plan and time-schedule any activity, and we all get it wrong all the time, e.g. "I'll drop these in at the post-office on my way back from Sainsburys - should be back well in time for dinner". Oh yes?
Oops - more traffic than forecast, Oops - had trouble finding just what you wanted in S'bys, Oops there are fewer check-outs working than expected, Oops petrol a bit on the low side, into filling sta. and 3rd in the line there, Oops queue to get out of the car park, Oops all the traffic lights turned red as we came up, Oops - queue in the Post Office didn't expect that! And so-on.
Yet somebody, somewhere, weeks before a big construction job is to start, is sitting in an office thinking "Well, we should be able to get the crane on site during the morning, and operational by tea-time" sort of thing, and writing this with confidernce into his programme together with a clutch of other similar propositions. Who is this guy? Has he any idea what it's like out there? Perhaps he's a group of guys, some with experience, some not, some older and wiser, some younger and not! And so ultimately they produce "A Programme" for the works which the orange-clad staff on the ground have to adhere to, somehow, and inevitably fall behind of! So in my opinion there are two facets to the "Falling behind schedule" thing - maybe we should consider the competence of the programme WRITER as well.

 

[krus_aragon]

I have often wondered, and sometimes questioned, how the timetable for a job - any job - is established.

A look at Critical Path Analysis may help you in understanding how project management works.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Programmes for rail engineering work are developed by the contractors and the client team based on previous experience and output rates. As well as a critical path there will be multiple decision points; if the work has not proceeded sufficiently by one of these then a pre-arranged alternative plan will be adopted, which could be up to and including putting it all back as it was and going home.

Critical path activities will attract more contingency planning, but the whole programme will be subjected to a Quantitative Schedule Risk Assessment (QSRA).

In most possession programmes there is little if any float (spare time) and the schedule risks have to be managed by other means. Some jobs have no reasonable hold points, other than not starting, and in this case the mitigation planning will focus on "what if" scenarios during any over-run.

It's also worth noting that this round of planning has a programme, often starting to plan the work in minute-by-minute detail up to 52 weeks in advance! If the risks are still too high six weeks out then the work will probably be postponed.

We are currently working on the outline detail of works dated for Spring 2017 ...

 

[PrinceBishop]

The coverage last year was well over and above what was justified or appropriate, and it contributed to what can only be described as a clusterf**k of epic proportions.

I don't really understand why they can't employ transport or railway correspondents who actually understand the situation and relay accurate information to their readers, the imbeciles, one of whom can't get the abbreviation correct for the Department for Transport, pass on incorrect information or fail to explain the issues, cause passengers to become confused and in turn angry, creating a self perpetuating problem.

I'm sure some of the coverage was over and above what was justified and I acknowledged as much in my post. But not all of it was. The situation was a f*** up by Network Rail and there's no point trying to pretend otherwise.

To answer your second point. Because, in the case of most newspapers, they don't have the money. The BBC is protected by its license fee, newspapers make money from people buying their newspaper. People don't buy newspapers as much as they used to. Journalists get made redundant. The quality of the coverage and the sub editing goes down, even less people buy the newspaper. It's a vicious circle. The same guy/girl writing about Network Rail then has to go and write a story about an airport or a shooting or a court case. It would be better if they were experts in the field they wrote on, but it increasingly isn't affordable. There's also very few sub editors left to correct mistakes like DoT/DfT.

I'm playing devils advocate here for the sake of balance in this thread. Much of the criticism of the media is justified. Some of it isn't. Occasionally, a bad news story about the railways is justified.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Yes, thanks Joseph Locke, I know a bit about it - we had programmers on the management group at Northampton.
My point is this: "Job running late - naughty contractors"!
Maybe not. What about:
"Job running late - programme wrong!"

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Yes, thanks Joseph Locke, I know a bit about it - we had programmers on the management group at Northampton.
My point is this: "Job running late - naughty contractors"!
Maybe not. What about:
"Job running late - programme wrong!"

Mr Featherstone would disagree - "Job running late - not enough planning / practice."

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't really understand why they can't employ transport or railway correspondents who actually understand the situation and relay accurate information to their readers, the imbeciles, one of whom can't get the abbreviation correct for the Department for Transport, pass on incorrect information or fail to explain the issues, cause passengers to become confused and in turn angry, creating a self perpetuating problem.

It needs someone of Alan Williams (esque) stature or Roger Ford .

 

[Philip Phlopp]

And so ultimately they produce "A Programme" for the works which the orange-clad staff on the ground have to adhere to, somehow, and inevitably fall behind of! So in my opinion there are two facets to the "Falling behind schedule" thing - maybe we should consider the competence of the programme WRITER as well.

It's absolutely not inevitable that the staff on the ground fall behind on something, planning is generally excellent and the vast majority of works have gone perfectly well, always have done and always will do.

We've had structural electrification components coming in from Switzerland, under escort, and arriving on site correctly, being craned into position with almost split second precision to keep to the program.

Where it can go horribly wrong is something like a crane moving position to complete the second half of a project, and when positioning it, a disused drain, which doesn't exist on any drawing and which wasn't detected during planning, collapses and the crane can't then position properly or safely.

Crane is moved, drain is repaired or dug out and packed with ballast, 4 hours of time is lost and suddenly a project needing to be finished at 05:00hrs is still not complete by 09:00hrs.

We're still paying quite a heavy price for our predecessors going about building and documenting their railways in some of the most cack-handed ways possible at times.

 

[QueensCurve]

Newspapers all over the country will be polishing up their template stories. You know the one the one generated by the Clichés R Us App that begins.

"Angry/furious/outraged/disgusted rail commuters were angry/furious/outraged/disgusted when their journey to work was cancelled/delayed/slightly late following improvement works to the railways during the Christmas break. Insert passenger name here - insert age - insert Facebook status".

Don't forget the following editorial principles:

(Under no circumstance ask passengers whether they have looked outside the window during their week's break, watched the news or read a paper mentioning the storm damage. Don't ask them about the long shifts that PW and S&T staff have been putting in to make sure that as far as possible everything is back in place for the start of service and whether they would like the job.
Under no circumstances ask them when else they would like the work to be done)

(Don't forget to interview the local MP - capture every voter schmoozing expression of sympathy and promise that heads will roll for this.)

(If you have the faintest idea of how railways work disqualify yourself from this assignment)

Perhaps Forum Members might like to name and shame the most inept rail related stories they come across.

Media stories are farmed to support policy initiatives. For example when politicians want cut to benefits the media will publish anecdotes about people who don't work living in luxury.

In this case, the political aim is to break up, privatise or otherwise change Network Rail. Media stories critical of NR will be farmed to support the policy.

I personally think, electrifiication apart, NR do a pretty good job. But they will be found wanting to justify politically driven change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It needs someone of Alan Williams (esque) stature or Roger Ford .

In fairness to the mass media, they sometimes do call on the expertise of such specialists. Certainly Roger Ford (@CaptainDeltic) is sometime quoted.

 

[455driver]

Also, on the subject of railway employees not receiving praise when they get it right, (and they get it right most of the time to be fair) most people don't get praise when they perform well in their jobs, they get paid.

That's strange because every time I am served in a shop etc I always say thank you, maybe I should stop doing that because apparently 'they get paid' is all they deserve! :roll:

 

[PrinceBishop]

That's strange because every time I am served in a shop etc I always say thank you

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. So do I. I also thank guards when they check my ticket. If I get the opportunity I even like to thank train drivers. I guess that makes us equally virtuous?

'they get paid' is all they deserve! :roll:

If this is supposed to be a reference to something I've said then you've imagined it or deliberately tried to imply I stated something I didn't. At no point did I suggest that getting paid 'is all they deserve'. I did suggest it's a fact of life that most people do just get paid and don't get any praise. If you're in any public facing job you will often get people thanking and praising you. Equally the price you pay for that is you will often be abused and treated rudely by many other members of the public. Anyone who has worked in a public facing job in any industry, be it retail, the railways or the NHS, will appreciate this. Lots of people don't work in public facing jobs though. Lots of people work behind the scenes doing vital jobs. If they're lucky they may occasionally get some praise from their boss. Many don't. This can apply to air traffic controllers, engineers, emergency services, armed services, hell, even accountants.

The point I was trying to make, and I can only assume you missed it, is that railway workers aren't alone when it comes to praise and thanks, or a lack of it, for their work. Whether or not praise is 'deserved' is a different matter entirely.

 

[cjmillsnun]

In fairness to the mass media, they sometimes do call on the expertise of such specialists. Certainly Roger Ford (@CaptainDeltic) is sometime quoted.

They mainly quote Woemar

 

[455driver]

They mainly quote Woemar

Who hasn't got a clue about running the railways!
Some of the stuff he spouts (I think spouted is more apt because they seem to have moved away from using that rail 'exspurt') makes me cringe.

 

[Starmill]

Definitely needs to talk about 'railway bosses' as well. The media love talking about 'railway bosses'.

The one we also get in Manchester is 'transport chiefs' - who, exactly? An elected councillor do you mean?

 

[Andrewlong]

As it stands on Saturday evening, do we know whether NR are on target to open for business on Monday - or do they a) not have a plan which they are measuring progress against or b) are behind schedule but are scared of making it public?

 

[swt_passenger]

...do they a) not have a plan which they are measuring progress against

Is that a serious question? :roll:

 

[Philip Phlopp]

As it stands on Saturday evening, do we know whether NR are on target to open for business on Monday - or do they a) not have a plan which they are measuring progress against or b) are behind schedule but are scared of making it public?

Tea leaves in the bottom of the cup.

Any specific project you're interested in, or was it just a general rant aimed at Network Rail for no good reason ?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Said article must also contain the word "slammed" "admitted" and reference to Network Rail bonuses

That'll be something that The G****ian will use.

 

[Amberley54]

Are they the same as the "hard working families" politicians seem to love

Slightly off topic but I always smile when the Daily Hate Mail etc. state that it is the Taxpayer that pays for the welfare benefits to the poor, but it is the government that funds major capital projects.

So who will the the Street of Shame claim has paid for the engineering work over the holiday period?

 

[LAX54]

Quite. I don't think the media was responsible for the 'shambles' (an appropriate use of the word) we saw last year. As a railway passenger and a tax payer I'm quite pleased the media put pressure on over bonuses. I think it would be highly inappropriate for senior executives to receive rewards after presiding over such a mess.

Also, on the subject of railway employees not receiving praise when they get it right, (and they get it right most of the time to be fair) most people don't get praise when they perform well in their jobs, they get paid. I'm afraid 'Man does job competently' isn't news. That said, I am happy to give my praise and thanks to all the men and women who do good work 24/7 to keep our railway operating smoothly and I wish them all a happy new year.

I'm not here to defend the Daily Mail, or the rest of the media, they are guilty of sensationalism and exaggeration on a regular basis. But let's not fool ourselves that all negative coverage is unwarranted.

I suppose this is why most of the Country is so rude ! It DOES NOT HURT TO SAY THANKYOU! its just common decency, When I take a parcel from the Postie I say thankyou, or in a shop I say thankyou, but they are all being 'paid' ! in fact I find it quite annoying and simply bad manners when I put the effort in, and my Manager does not say 'Thankyou' !

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Anyway.... The Guardian is up to its usual slanderous reporting, this time about rail fare rises. Although to be fair they are right! Corbyn is calling for renationalisation which some people think is the be all and end all solution while others think that is the worst possible answer.


http://www.theguardian.com/money/20...r-staggering-rail-fare-rises?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[RichmondCommu]

Don't forget "hard pressed commuters," whatever that means. Up against each other presumably?

On my commute into Waterloo on a weekday I'm more often than not a hard pressed commuter!

On a serious note if infrastructure renewal projects carried out over Christmas were finished on time the media wouldn't have half the ammunition that they were gifted last Christmas. Finsbury Park anyone? The media publish stories about over running projects because its that kind of thing that attracts people's interest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Slightly off topic but I always smile when the Daily Hate Mail etc. state that it is the Taxpayer that pays for the welfare benefits to the poor, but it is the government that funds major capital projects.

So who will the the Street of Shame claim has paid for the engineering work over the holiday period?

For what its worth I can't stand the Daily Mail however I think its worth pointing out that its the 2nd best selling daily paper after the Sun so it must be doing something right!

 

[telstarbox]

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis.