Modern railway architecture

[Waddon]

Apologies for the rant, but why is it that Network Rail make such poor quality new buildings?

They seem to love platforms with no shelter, tiny lifts and generally extremely poorly thought out passenger flows. The new footbridge at East Croydon is always windswept and rain soaked, to the extent that the lifts are still not fully working after being deluged (they have been out of order now longer than they have been in service), and let's not forget the new platform at Gatwick, with it's open freezing cold design and single lift, totally unsuited to the vast number of people getting on and off there, destroying the old sensible passenger flow by forcing crowds of people back into the ticket hall (even though there is plenty of space for more facilities or for a connection to the other exit).

And, it looks like London Bridge is going the same way, replacing the old fully covering roof with silly little stylish canopies on an elevated site with very limited weather protection from the wind and rain. I know they are obsessed with preventing people staying on the platforms longer than they need to, but some of us actually have to wait for trains.

Other examples? The new platform at Cambridge, The freezing cold new deck at Reading, the westbound platform at Wokingham, Mitcham Eastfields, and these are just the ones on my South East patch...

 

[RPM]

Agree completely re lack of platform canopies. It is a particular bugbear of mine. The fact that in the 21st century we are building stations with inferior weather protection to what was provided in Victorian times is not impressive, especially bearing in mind climate change and a probable drift towards generally wetter weather.

In terms of layout & passenger flows, my frustration in the past, when I was a station manager was that I and my colleagues who knew the business and knew the requirements for a station were rarely if ever consulted regarding this sort of thing. The design was drawn up without reference to rail professionals and we were then left to live with all the (to us) obvious shortcomings. For example, say a new platform is being built. Architects like to place things like waiting shelters and seating spaced evenly along the platform so they look nice and balanced. From my own knowledge of stations I would like them placed where I know they are actually needed, with regard to the platform entrance points, train stop boards and likely train lengths. But I am not consulted so we end up with one waiting shelter (50% of the already barely adequate cold/wet weather waiting area on that platform) placed right down the country end of a long platform that is served mainly by two car trains that stop at the London end. Grr.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Agree completely re lack of platform canopies. It is a particular bugbear of mine. The fact that in the 21st century we are building stations with inferior weather protection to what was provided in Victorian times is not impressive, especially bearing in mind climate change and a probable drift towards generally wetter weather.

In terms of layout & passenger flows, my frustration in the past, when I was a station manager was that I and my colleagues who knew the business and knew the requirements for a station were rarely if ever consulted regarding this sort of thing. The design was drawn up without reference to rail professionals and we were then left to live with all the (to us) obvious shortcomings. For example, say a new platform is being built. Architects like to place things like waiting shelters and seating spaced evenly along the platform so they look nice and balanced. From my own knowledge of stations I would like them placed where I know they are actually needed, with regard to the platform entrance points, train stop boards and likely train lengths. But I am not consulted so we end up with one waiting shelter (50% of the already barely adequate cold/wet weather waiting area on that platform) placed right down the country end of a long platform that is served mainly by two car trains that stop at the London end. Grr.

If i ever do work on a station ill make sure to ask the staff there. Noted.

 

[RPM]

If i ever do work on a station ill make sure to ask the staff there. Noted.

Superb!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Superb!

Its the kind of thing that really needs to b encouraged to the next generation of engineers.

 

[The Planner]

I know they are obsessed with preventing people staying on the platforms longer than they need to, but some of us actually have to wait for trains.

You have answered your own question, people not on platforms are more likely to spend £££ in whatever retail outlets are about....

 

[starrymarkb]

It does seem most new bridges/lifts/canopys/shelters are kits built out of standard components with no tailoring possible.

For custom build architects can be a pain though, they either design as cheap as possible, or go for something extravagant with the sole aim of winning an architecture award/being noticed and sod anyone who actually has to use it/work in it. In some cases they even put penalties in the contract if the owner of the building makes unauthorised changes within a certain period ie to make the layout usable! (that happened at the library where a friend of mine works, there were several desks and shelves that couldn't be used for their intended purpose - she said the day the restrictions were lifted they were in their ripping it out and reconfiguring it into something fit for purpose!)

 

[cal]

The new Edinburgh Haymarket appears to have been a step in the right direction. A far larger (inside) waiting area was added, as well as improvements to the shelters. Although, you could make anything look progressive compared to the old station.

 

[Clip]

Its the kind of thing that really needs to b encouraged to the next generation of engineers.

Wouldnt that be down to the architects though who design them?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Wouldnt that be down to the architects though who design them?

Not simple things. And the engineers talk to the architects in projects so hopefully if you get a good engineer the right information will be passed back to the architects.

 

[futureA]

It does seem most new bridges/lifts/canopys/shelters are kits built out of standard components with no tailoring possible.

For custom build architects can be a pain though, they either design as cheap as possible, or go for something extravagant with the sole aim of winning an architecture award/being noticed and sod anyone who actually has to use it/work in it. In some cases they even put penalties in the contract if the owner of the building makes unauthorised changes within a certain period ie to make the layout usable! (that happened at the library where a friend of mine works, there were several desks and shelves that couldn't be used for their intended purpose - she said the day the restrictions were lifted they were in their ripping it out and reconfiguring it into something fit for purpose!)

I'm an architect and that's not how it works.

The client is the only person who decides wether a scheme will be as cheap as possible or an extravagance. Architects have to design to the clients requirements and budget after all.

 

[Squaddie]

Over the past few years I've watched as several stations in Switzerland I'm familiar with have been completely rebuilt. It's always a little sad to see the old traditional stations replaced by 21st century concrete structures, but the quality and appearance of the new buildings, and the facilities provided, are invariably superb. It demonstrates clearly that modern stations do not have to be the unwelcoming, soulless places they almost invariably are in the UK - all it takes is a little imagination, a good architect and a willingness to invest for the future.

 

[jopsuk]

The bridge to Cambridge platforms 7 & 8 is a superb example. Despite having floor to ceiling glass panels, it isn't weathertight. Especially when it is breezy, rain gets in between the glass and ceiling, and round the sides of the panels on the stairs, making it quite wet. Not long after it was built they realised that this caused massive problems with the shiny flooor tiles, so they sanded those to a rough finish.

 

[fgwrich]

The bridge to Cambridge platforms 7 & 8 is a superb example. Despite having floor to ceiling glass panels, it isn't weathertight. Especially when it is breezy, rain gets in between the glass and ceiling, and round the sides of the panels on the stairs, making it quite wet. Not long after it was built they realised that this caused massive problems with the shiny flooor tiles, so they sanded those to a rough finish.

Agree completely re lack of platform canopies. It is a particular bugbear of mine. The fact that in the 21st century we are building stations with inferior weather protection to what was provided in Victorian times is not impressive, especially bearing in mind climate change and a probable drift towards generally wetter weather.

In terms of layout & passenger flows, my frustration in the past, when I was a station manager was that I and my colleagues who knew the business and knew the requirements for a station were rarely if ever consulted regarding this sort of thing. The design was drawn up without reference to rail professionals and we were then left to live with all the (to us) obvious shortcomings. For example, say a new platform is being built. Architects like to place things like waiting shelters and seating spaced evenly along the platform so they look nice and balanced. From my own knowledge of stations I would like them placed where I know they are actually needed, with regard to the platform entrance points, train stop boards and likely train lengths. But I am not consulted so we end up with one waiting shelter (50% of the already barely adequate cold/wet weather waiting area on that platform) placed right down the country end of a long platform that is served mainly by two car trains that stop at the London end. Grr.

I completely agree with the both on you on these points, with for me the New Reading Station as the greatest example. The 'Transfer Deck' is still cold and still leaks through the roof, with various items such as glass screens missed off the original design. Of the few positives, it is nice and Spacious and handles large numbers of passenger flow quite well - how this remains to be seen when Network Rail install 8 large Retail units onto it remains to be seen, and that's another frustration of mine. The escalators still tend to fail in the rain as the large glass screens promised in the original design where never fitted, which also allows rain in strong winds onto the 'Transfer Deck'. The waiting facilities are centred towards the middle of the platforms which is good if your waiting around those parts, however if your waiting on any of the platforms at either end of the station it's not that great. And those canopies, now a major bugbear of mine after the recent inclement weather - the original Great Western Railways canopies offered you a fair amount of protection from the elements in different wind directions, these ones don't. There flat roof design offers little protection underneath to passengers awaiting their trains, and as I found out last week they already leak - the water either runs down the outer edge of the canopy and spray you or runs inside the panels then pours out at the bottom, which then affects the rather 'afterthought' like stip lighting provided underneath. To be honest, I would have probably faired better just standing out in the rain than underneath a leaking canopy. 7/10 for the station layout, 2/10 for the execution and design (that's Grimshaws again). And Have Network Rail learned their lesson from using PTFE on the station after the Newport Station Bridge debacle - that's another 'great example'? We shall see given that it's turning up in Reading as well, and over the escalators.

And as for East Croydon - Completely agree with that one too, I also think that putting the access to the footbridge pointing northwards was another poor decision too, as there's little protection from above around that so again you get wet, before crossing the open air footbridge.

 

[talldave]

The stupid design at Gatwick's platform 7 was causing mayhem the other day when a platform change had been announced that required passengers to move to platform 7. Of course they were discovering that if you come off the other platforms via the "exit" flow (the only option from some platforms), you're left unable to get to platform 7. Staff were advising passengers to go back down to platforms 1/2, along to the other end, up and across to 7!! Barmy.

 

[Hophead]

And as for East Croydon - Completely agree with that one too, I also think that putting the access to the footbridge pointing northwards was another poor decision too, as there's little protection from above around that so again you get wet, before crossing the open air footbridge.

Done on purpose for passenger flow reasons - to get passengers a bit more spread out. There is some additional shelter going in now.

My personal bug-bear is the lack of other platform information at platform level - you have to go up to the bridge (or move down to the existing monitors where the subway used to be) to find out what platform your connection is on - quite often the platform you've just come from, but how I am to know till I check?

 

[DVD]

Apologies for the rant, but why is it that Network Rail make such poor quality new buildings?

They seem to love platforms with no shelter, tiny lifts and generally extremely poorly thought out passenger flows. The new footbridge at East Croydon is always windswept and rain soaked, to the extent that the lifts are still not fully working after being deluged (they have been out of order now longer than they have been in service), and let's not forget the new platform at Gatwick, with it's open freezing cold design and single lift, totally unsuited to the vast number of people getting on and off there, destroying the old sensible passenger flow by forcing crowds of people back into the ticket hall (even though there is plenty of space for more facilities or for a connection to the other exit).

And, it looks like London Bridge is going the same way, replacing the old fully covering roof with silly little stylish canopies on an elevated site with very limited weather protection from the wind and rain. I know they are obsessed with preventing people staying on the platforms longer than they need to, but some of us actually have to wait for trains.

Other examples? The new platform at Cambridge, The freezing cold new deck at Reading, the westbound platform at Wokingham, Mitcham Eastfields, and these are just the ones on my South East patch...

I tend to agree in general, but the new platform canopies at London Bridge are hardly "silly little stylish canopies", they are enormous, very wide, and covering the whole platforms (unlike the old roof which covered less than 50% of platforms and leaked in places).