MML HSTs

[Zoe]

So now we know the HSTs on the Midland Mainline are to remain in service would a more extensive refubrishment be a good idea? The IC70 seats are getting quite old now and it is known that they are not crashworthy so maybe they could go for something like FGW? It should also be noted that FGW are commiting to further life extension so I would hope East Midlands Trians would follow this lead. I don't think anyone wants them to be near falling apart by the time the MML is electrified or replacement DMUs/bi-mode trains are ordered.

 

[DarloRich]

I hope they DONT FGW them! The seats on the MML HST are the best in the fleet. PLEASE just do them up in the same format! It is a pleasure to travel on the MML set that EC have "borrowed" It actually makes travel enjoyable!

 

[swt_passenger]

It should also be noted that FGW are commiting to further life extension so I would hope East Coast Trains would follow this lead. I don't think anyone wants them to be near falling apart by the time the MML is electrified or replacement DMUs/bi-mode trains are ordered.

Why would East Coast sets need life extension - did you mean to write EMT?

 

[Zoe]

Why would East Coast sets need life extension - did you mean to write EMT?

Indeed I did, sorry. Post has been edited.

 

[Blindtraveler]

think they have to really or they wil gain a reputation for the only toc who has not brought its hst fleat up to todays standard. I too like the old seats but if there gunna run on, at the v least re-seat them and fit plugs etc.
What engines are in the EMT ones?

I hope they DONT FGW them! The seats on the MML HST are the best in the fleet. PLEASE just do them up in the same format! It is a pleasure to travel on the MML set that EC have "borrowed" It actually makes travel enjoyable!

 

[Waddon]

Someone on the train to Nottingham last week was complaining to the guard about the lack of plug sockets. I think they said something along the lines of 'why weren't these trains built with plug sockets for laptops to be plugged in'
errr... laptops didn't even exist when these trains were built...

 

[Blindtraveler]

think they have to really or they wil gain a reputation for the only toc who has not brought its hst fleat up to todays standard. I too like the old seats but if there gunna run on, at the v least re-seat them and fit plugs etc.
What engines are in the EMT ones?

I hope they DONT FGW them! The seats on the MML HST are the best in the fleet. PLEASE just do them up in the same format! It is a pleasure to travel on the MML set that EC have "borrowed" It actually makes travel enjoyable!

 

[sprinterguy]

What engines are in the EMT ones?

EMT use VP185 engines, the only operator that isn't using MTUs.

It would be nice if EMT could procure a small number of new Meridians and do away with the HSTs entirely, but as that’s not an option and MML electrification is probably a long way off then I think a decent refurbishment is needed to bring the HSTs in line with the refreshed Meridians, with the same style of interior and provision of “extras” such as plug sockets.

 

[talltim]

HSTs are far nicer to travel in than Meridians
Power Sockets would be nice
IC70 seats are the best I get to travel on.

 

[Blindtraveler]

i'm with you there. When were the EMT power cars fitted with the above and are they complient with required and future standards?

 

[WillPS]

The last VP185 went in Summer 2008.

I doubt any seat replacement will take place now until the franchise is relet in 2015 (not that long really). They've only just finished the last refurb programme!

 

[43167]

IC70 seats are fine. Better than EC/XC and without a doubt, better than the park bench seats now used on FGW.

 

[Zoe]

IC70 seats are fine.

I don't think they are fine at all. It has been proved that they are not crashworthy.

 

[klewer]

I don't think they are fine at all. It has been proved that they are not crashworthy.

It's the back that apparently shatters, so I wouldn't say the entire seat is not crashworthy - where's your source for this?

If they were *that* unsafe then surely WSMR and GC would have been made to remove them on their refurbs?

 

[mallard]

Shattering probably has more to do with the type of plastic used than the actual design of the seat. You could probably replace the seat back with a more modern shatter resistant plastic and still keep the IC70 design.

Unfortunately, you'd probably fall foul of all sorts of disability and ergonomic requirements which the current IC70 has "grandfather" exclusions from.

 

[Benno]

Shattering probably has more to do with the type of plastic used than the actual design of the seat. You could probably replace the seat back with a more modern shatter resistant plastic and still keep the IC70 design.

Unfortunately, you'd probably fall foul of all sorts of disability and ergonomic requirements which the current IC70 has "grandfather" exclusions from.

Exactly right, if you were to change the material of the seat frame you are changing the design of the seat and would have to go through the approval process to be allowed to use it.

There wouldn't be much point in doing that when you can go to a seat manufacturer and buy a seat that is already approved for use.

 

[tbtc]

It would be nice if EMT could procure a small number of new Meridians and do away with the HSTs entirely

That would have been nice, give the thirteen HSTs to XC, EMT get a standardised fleet of long distance trains, everyone's a winner...

 

[Zoe]

The IC70 seats also do not offer the privacy that the FGW seats do.

 

[sprinterguy]

That would have been nice, give the thirteen HSTs to XC, EMT get a standardised fleet of long distance trains, everyone's a winner...

Yeah thirteen HSTs in the direction of XC would have been helpful

The IC70 seats also do not offer the privacy that the FGW seats do.

I think the amount of privacy offered by the current seating layouts on any train is ample. There’s times when I like to be left to my own devices with a bit of peace and quiet, and I often favour the darker corners of shady pubs, but I don’t feel that an ability to hide away from the world at large is really required on trains.

 

[junglejames]

I don't think they are fine at all. It has been proved that they are not crashworthy.

Its one thing saying Mk1s arent good enough for regular mainline use becuase of their crashworthiness, but then going onto seats? I assume people all complaining about supposed failings in these seats dont drive at all? Because at this rate you had better stop travelling by car. Your obviously highly worried about any slim slim chance of an accident if you go delving into seat design in an otherwise very crashworthy coach.

How many deaths have been caused by these seats shattering and the bits flying around like missiles? I would love to know.
Your more likely to have an injury if your standing up at the time, and you cant stop yourself flying like a missile yourself.

 

[Zoe]

I suggest you read about Ufton Nervet.

 

[junglejames]

The IC70 seats also do not offer the privacy that the FGW seats do.

Oh come on Zoe, are you being serious??
The only difference in privacy is the higher seat backs on FGWs.
However the IC70s are of suitable design that anyone sitting behind you cannot see through to what your doing (unless your worried about people seeing your head, in which case you shouldnt be leaving the house). The only way they could spy on you is if they stood up and looked over your seat back. Something they could do with FGWs seats as well.

When walking down the aisle, people will be able to look down at you when walking past whatever the seats. The only difference is they will see your head sooner if on an IC70 train. Again, if your worried about this, dont leave the house.

To be honest, I think your confusing claustrophobia with increased privacy. Now that is something FGWs trains are guilty of. Seeming claustrophobic!

Zoe, your coming out with any excuse to scrap IC70s. Crashworthiness was one thing (even if I think thats going too far), but this takes it to a whole new level.

 

[ChrisCooper]

It's a shame really that the IC70s have such nice seatback tables for laptops, but don't provide the level of privacy for looking at porn whilst on the move.

 

[Zoe]

even if I think thats going too far

It's not going to far, if the seat shatters with bits of plastic flying everywhere there will be injuries. If the roof collapses the high seat backs will also offer a level of protection that the IC70 seats do not.

 

[asylumxl]

It's a shame really that the IC70s have such nice seatback tables for laptops, but don't provide the level of privacy for looking at porn whilst on the move.

Never have truer words been spoken. Now I know what all these people with laptops are actually doing...

 

[junglejames]

I suggest you read about Ufton Nervet.

Yep. Zero passengers died because of seats shattering and these bits flying around like missiles. Thanks for helping to back me up.

To be honest, I see zero recommendations relating to the seats. Only seatbelts and window strength.

OK, so the low seat backs dont help when it comes to whiplash, but I cant think of much else.
The only other possibility (although no sign of this in a report) is if the corner between the base and back of the seat is weak enough to cause the seat back to push forward, if the person behind flies into it. That will cause a problem. But nothing about it at all.

I still think this is all going too far though. All seats are going to cause some problems no matter what design they are. Considering how rare accidents are, and the fact the coach is already very crashworthy, and the fact seats are only showing up for minor injuries (which they will always cause anyway) I just think its going too far. I could understand if they killed people, but its all minor injuries. Crikey, I expect minor injuries in a crash. Id expect minor injuries with any seats.
To be worried about it id need accidents to more more prevalent.
Im more worried about cars though, and considering i drive, i find it hypocritical to worry about IC70s, and yet still drive. But thats my opinion.

 

[Zoe]

Im more worried about cars though, and considering i drive, i find it hypocritical to worry about IC70s, and yet still drive. But thats my opinion.

Some of the 1980s cars are death traps and I don't know why they are still allowed on the road.

 

[junglejames]

It's not going to far, if the seat shatters with bits of plastic flying everywhere there will be injuries. If the roof collapses the high seat backs will also offer a level of protection that the IC70 seats do not.

But that hasnt been happening. No sign of flying missiles from seat backs causing severe injuries/ deaths.
Id need the seats to be doing a lot worse than they are for me to worry about them. Esp as i say, im still happy to drive, and travel on good old Pacers etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some of the 1980s cars are death traps and I don't know why they are still allowed on the road.

Very true. Then again, if the accidents bad enough, most cars could end up being death traps. But yes, some of the older designs. Not good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That would have been nice, give the thirteen HSTs to XC, EMT get a standardised fleet of long distance trains, everyone's a winner...

Now going back to this comment. You knew it was coming.
Now im happy to accept you prefer Meridians, but saying everyone is a winner is untrue. What about London to Sheffield passengers that like the pleasant, quiet environment of a HST? They arent winners.

 

[Zoe]

Very true. Then again, if the accidents bad enough, most cars could end up being death traps.

The same goes for any mode of transport though.

 

[junglejames]

It's a shame really that the IC70s have such nice seatback tables for laptops, but don't provide the level of privacy for looking at porn whilst on the move.

Eh, no seats do. I could easily see you watching porn on an FGW set, in exactly the same way as id have to if i was on an IC70 set.
If i was sitting behind you, i wouldnt see anything. If i was walking down the aisle, i could see the screen on any train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The same goes for any mode of transport though.

It does. Not disagreeing with that. Luckily some forms are a lot safer than others.