MML HSTs

[Zoe]

It does. Not disagreeing with that. Luckily some forms are a lot safer than others.

Depends how you define safe. Planes have less accidents than other forms of transport but you don't stand much chance in the event of an accident.

 

[DarloRich]

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/RSSB_Ufton001.pdf

The Rail Safety and Standards Board only seem to make recommendations with regard to Windows and seat belts, doesn’t seem to suggest changes to seat design.

The report does point out@ 7.5.12 that the power car does not meet current crash worthiness standards and at 7.5.1.3 it states that the monoquoce construction of a MKiii, while not up to current standards, forms a structure that has been shown to be "very resistant to deformation"

There are also important points to note at 7.5.5.1 which deals with the roll over strength of the coaches and the damage caused by flying bogies. I would also draw attention to section 7.5.8.2-4 dealing with the windows.

7.6.2.1 seems to suggest that the seats meet the current safety requirements. 7.6.2.2 suggests that 2 seat backs were missing and 1 had fractured and these were located i the 2 most severely damaged carriages. The main problem seems to be that the seat design did not allow any deformation if hit by an object which may have lessened injuries to a passenger. Worryingly it looks like the tables in use at this time were not of a safe design!

 

[mallard]

Speaking of seats, I've often thought it would be quite nice to have a modified IC70 seat in my house as an armchair. Does anybody know any scrap dealers or suppliers that might be able to help me fulfill this silly dream?

 

[Pumbaa]

Now im happy to accept you prefer Meridians, but saying everyone is a winner is untrue. What about London to Sheffield passengers that like the pleasant, quiet environment of a HST? They arent winners.

Do you mean the all but about 6 services to/from Sheffield that are HST operated, while the rest are 222s?

Why wouldn't everyone be a winner? Seats go where they matter, apparent comfort or nostalgic value aside it would make sense for the HSTs to go to XC. Massive increase in seating and luggage space, while EMT gain rapidly accelerating stock to match with their primarily stop-start pattern.

Stock should go where they have highest utility, and for the case of HSTs I think that is firmly with XC on Newcastle - Bristol runs to provide maximum seating throughout the day on the busiest trains.

And yes, I agree with Zoe. Regardless of their nostalgic value, there is a reason why most operators did away with IC70 seating. Fact - passenger surveys on the fGW refurb found passengers preferred the new seating. Fact - passenger surveys also found the same on the EC fleet. You could argue that just because its new and shiny people will prefer it more, but the fact is people prefer them. Railways are run for the benefit of society, not gricers.

And I find them damn uncomfortable and much prefer the high-backed seats we now see.

 

[junglejames]

Do you mean the all but about 6 services to/from Sheffield that are HST operated, while the rest are 222s?

Why wouldn't everyone be a winner? Seats go where they matter, apparent comfort or nostalgic value aside it would make sense for the HSTs to go to XC. Massive increase in seating and luggage space, while EMT gain rapidly accelerating stock to match with their primarily stop-start pattern.

Stock should go where they have highest utility, and for the case of HSTs I think that is firmly with XC on Newcastle - Bristol runs to provide maximum seating throughout the day on the busiest trains.

And yes, I agree with Zoe. Regardless of their nostalgic value, there is a reason why most operators did away with IC70 seating. Fact - passenger surveys on the fGW refurb found passengers preferred the new seating. Fact - passenger surveys also found the same on the EC fleet. You could argue that just because its new and shiny people will prefer it more, but the fact is people prefer them. Railways are run for the benefit of society, not gricers.

And I find them damn uncomfortable and much prefer the high-backed seats we now see.

Im not questioning how sensible the idea may or may not be. Just saying the statement about EVERYONE being a winner is untrue. If only 1 person (and i bet there would be more) wanted HSTs to be on their daily commutes to and from London and Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield, then your statement has been shown to be untrue.

Now if you hadnt made that little comment, and just purely said it would be a better idea, then I couldnt have argued anything.

Interesting about the passenger surveys. I never realised FGWs passengers were so mad!!!! Yes, I realise passengers are here for the benefit of society. Its just a shame TOCs dont realise that.

 

[ainsworth74]

I never realised FGWs passengers were so mad!!!!

So anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is mad? :roll:

 

[BestWestern]

There was some objection to the refurbed FGW seating when the sets came into service I believe, on the grounds of claustrophobia. I must admit I find the MKIII's to be a tad cramped now. It's interesting how First Class saloons are always very open and airy, which would tend to suggest that those who pay for a choice aren't overly worried about 'privacy'.

I'd much rather be sitting in an IC70 in a bad smash than on a 142 bus bench seat, and they're still perfectly 'legal'!!

 

[trentside]

I agree with other posters (regardless of the crashworthiness debate, which I don't know enough about to enter into), that I find the IC70 seats on the EMT HSTs are preferable to the EC/XC high backed seating. I find that the 'privacy' afforded by the high backed seats can be less pleasant when travelling late a night, it makes you less visible, but also makes it harder to see what other people are up to. I'm probably a little paranoid, but I prefer to have a view of the rest of the carriage when travelling late at night.

As to the lack of power sockets, this can have its advantages. I was sat next to a woman on a peak-time East Coast service the other day, who asked me if I would mind her using the window seat (no view anyway) and the plug socket for her laptop. She spent the rest of the journey muttering and swearing at her laptop - all I wanted to do was read my book in relative peace. On that basis, I'd encourage EMT not to fit them at every seat - if only to hinder the inconsiderate of this world.

 

[MCR247]

But I'd like them to charge my phone after a long day in London

 

[trentside]

But I'd like them to charge my phone after a long day in London

True, so would I! I've talked myself out of my own tounge-in-cheek argument

 

[TomJ93]

I'd love a pair as an armchair too!

if you want plugs just travel on a Meriden to Leicester than change to your final destination?

I used 1st down to London on RDD and the seats were to comfiest i've used, better than the Pretendo's too, and that big long head rest was ace.

 

[MCR247]

EMT HSTs have the same seats as WB64?

Thats a good, if you want plugs just change trains, I'm sure EMT will have loads more satisfied customers that way

They could use it as a slogan? Virgin could use:

'Want a window?'
'Then Go by 350...'

 

[TomJ93]

I don't know whether it's more use but they just seemed nicier, and the covers were smoother.

Thing is I've had this argument before about why a new build (350s) don't have them in standard, so the fact a 30 year old train doesn't isn't that bad

Why not upgrade to a window with a weekend first?

maybe in the (former) shop area they could have what the first lounge at Euston has for mobiles? And charge for them !

What are EC like in standard?

Oh and anyone with tips on how to get a seat if they could PM me it would be great, maybe i'll write to VT and see do they have a 1st seat and table I could buy?

 

[junglejames]

I don't know whether it's more use but they just seemed nicier, and the covers were smoother.

Thing is I've had this argument before about why a new build (350s) don't have them in standard, so the fact a 30 year old train doesn't isn't that bad

Why not upgrade to a window with a weekend first?

maybe in the (former) shop area they could have what the first lounge at Euston has for mobiles? And charge for them !

What are EC like in standard?

Oh and anyone with tips on how to get a seat if they could PM me it would be great, maybe i'll write to VT and see do they have a 1st seat and table I could buy?

Id love to buy a Standard and 1st class seat from the Mk3s. Be fantastic. Much more fun than sitting on the sofa at home!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is mad? :roll:

Look at my exclamation marks. More than one of them as well. Post was tongue in cheek. Sarcastic, having a laugh. Either way you want to look at it, but not serious.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

EMT HSTs have the same seats as WB64?

Thats a good, if you want plugs just change trains, I'm sure EMT will have loads more satisfied customers that way

They could use it as a slogan? Virgin could use:

'Want a window?'
'Then Go by 350...'

Or, a nice big slogan outside Euston:
Welcome to Euston Airport.
Want a train to Scotland?
Kings X is just down the road!!

 

[TomJ93]

Me and my like for 390s and 22x's will just go elsewhere. . . . . .

 

[MCR247]

I like 390s and 22x's too, I was joking about the windows!