MML Electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

Matlock, Sheffield-Moorthorpe etc are effectively infills where a relatively short length of electrification allows a much longer diesel service to convert to electric, so electrification is good value both in cost-benefit terms and in releasing DMUs for other work. Calder Valley would be a much bigger scheme and less easy to justify because none of its services run under the wires at present except in the immediate area of Leeds (and in future Manchester).

Exactly. Lets get the wires up and I am sure in CP6 or 7 and in the future this will happen no matter which government is in power.

 

[edwin_m]

One long term possibility might be an "Electric Spine" service from the East Midlands or even Yorkshire via Leicester, Bedford and Bletchley to Oxford and then towards either the south coast or Bristol.

This would provide a more direct service than XC via Birmingham for journeys such as Nottingham-Oxford which are far quicker by road at present. It also improves the service on the MML north of Bedford without having to go onto the busier part of the route south of there or occupy scarce platforms at St Pancras.

 

[anti-pacer]

One long term possibility might be an "Electric Spine" service from the East Midlands or even Yorkshire via Leicester, Bedford and Bletchley to Oxford and then towards either the south coast or Bristol.

This would provide a more direct service than XC via Birmingham for journeys such as Nottingham-Oxford which are far quicker by road at present. It also improves the service on the MML north of Bedford without having to go onto the busier part of the route south of there or occupy scarce platforms at St Pancras.

I can picture that....

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Sheffield-Derby-Leicester-Kettering-Bedford-Bletchley (for Milton Keynes)-Oxford-Didcot Parkway-Swindon-Bath-Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[snowball]

I would love to see the following services;

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Sheffield-Derby-Leicester-St Pancras

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Rotherham Central-Meadowhall-Sheffield-Dronfield-Chesterfield-Alfreton-Langley Mill-Ilkeston*-Nottingham

Isn't Rotherham Central - Meadowhall getting wired as part of the tram-train experiment?

Every little helps!

 

[Philip Elliott]

Just Corby, though Corby to Syston would also have to be electrified if there was any significant flow of electric freight since the route via Market Harborough is close to capacity.

This would provide a more direct service than XC via Birmingham for journeys such as Nottingham-Oxford which are far quicker by road at present. It also improves the service on the MML north of Bedford without having to go onto the busier part of the route south of there or occupy scarce platforms at St Pancras.

You've just contradicted yourself there! Going via Bedford is still long and slow. Via Catesby is much better...

 

[Ivo]

I can picture that....

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Sheffield-Derby-Leicester-Kettering-Bedford-Bletchley (for Milton Keynes)-Oxford-Didcot Parkway-Swindon-Bath-Bristol Temple Meads.

Something like this would use the chord just west of Didcot to avoid needing to reverse there

I do certainly like this idea and more importantly would use it - such a route gives me access to my friend in Leeds without having to change or pass through Birmingham! A shorter route to Southampton and possibly beyond wouldn't go amiss either, as others have said; it could even start at Nottingham to open up even more possibilities and later follow the current XC calling pattern in Hampshire.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't Rotherham Central - Meadowhall getting wired as part of the tram-train experiment?
Every little helps!

Yes it is (if the project ever gets off the ground), but it's the wrong sort (750V DC).
So in fact it will be an obstacle to main line 25kV AC electric working.
The DC route is not the same though, it uses the old GC line via Tinsley.
The conflicting bit is only the last half mile or so into Rotherham Central.

 

[edwin_m]

You've just contradicted yourself there! Going via Bedford is still long and slow. Via Catesby is much better...

Via Market Harborough is a double track with widely-spaced signals. If the signalling is upgraded it could carry more passenger trains at similar speeds to the existing ones without other infrastructure changes. The problem with adding more freight is that it would be slower than passenger trains, so would need a lot more capacity.

South of Bedford it gets progressively more difficult to add anything.

The GC southwards from Leicester would indeed offer an even better route from the East Midlands to the south and south-west, but at the cost of some other links. I'm trying to stay within the realms of the possible here...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes it is (if the project ever gets off the ground), but it's the wrong sort (750V DC).
So in fact it will be an obstacle to main line 25kV AC electric working.
The DC route is not the same though, it uses the old GC line via Tinsley.
The conflicting bit is only the last half mile or so into Rotherham Central.

The planning of tram-train has taken account of this. The tram-trains are dual voltage even though the 25kV capability won't be used on the intial service. And although the electrification is 750V throughout (a 25kV would be very expensive for such a short section) it uses 25kV equipment where possible to minimise the cost if it needs to be converted later.

 

[38Cto15E]

Wasn't there a suggestion about re-instating the goods loops at Desborough to help traffic flow between Kettering and Leicester?
With 5 tunnels and a very long viaduct I think it would be very expensive to electrify the Corby-Syston section, maybe you could have a Thunderbird for drag duties?

This week I noticed that preperation work for the electrification is well under way in the Kettering area, large bags of aggregate on the embankment every 30 yards or so, some of the bases for the pylons are already in place.

 

[snowball]

Yes it is (if the project ever gets off the ground), but it's the wrong sort (750V DC).
So in fact it will be an obstacle to main line 25kV AC electric working.
The DC route is not the same though, it uses the old GC line via Tinsley.
The conflicting bit is only the last half mile or so into Rotherham Central.

According to this report the contract has now been signed and the vehicles will be dual voltage. Presumably the OHLE will be designed with possible conversion in mind, with clearances suitable for 25kV.

Tram-train contracts signed
Posted on Thursday 20 June 2013 by Gareth Prior

A major milestone in the history of light rail in the UK has moved a step closer after the contracts for the Tram-Train project between Sheffield and Rotherham were signed. This will be the first official Tram-Train to operate in the UK – although you may well argue that Manchester Metrolink got there first 21 years ago! – and is due to start operating in early 2016. Transport Minister Norman Baker was on hand to sign the contracts on behalf of the government during a brief ceremony at Meadowhall South tramstop where the Tram-Train vehicles will leave the existing Supertram network to reach Rotherham.

The service will operate between Rotherham Parkgate and Sheffield city centre operating on the existing Supertram network and the national rail network. The route will be upgraded in the next couple of years before services commence in early 2016. New vehicles constructed by Vossloh will be delivered before then and these will be dual voltage to allow for any subsequent electrification of the Midland Mainline by being capable of operating at both light rail and heavy rail operating voltage.

Norman Baker commented: “Providing better connections between the heart of Sheffield and Rotherham’s centres and residential areas will help to reinvigorate the local economy. It will also encourage people to leave their cars at home. “Tram-Trains are an innovative and high-capacity transport system which have proved very successful in other European cities. We will be monitoring the scheme over the course of the next two years and I look forward to seeing if it would be appropriate to replicate it elsewhere in the UK.”

Work needed to upgrade the current heavy rail line will include a new link junction being built between the light rail and heavy rail lines near Meadowhall South. The rail line from Meadowhall South to Rotherham Central Station and Rotherham Parkgate will be electrified and new platforms will be built at Meadowhall South and Rotherham Parkgate with those at Rotherham Central extended. There will also be consideration given to other stations in the future.

The first two years of the project will be used as a pilot to Tram-Train operation in the UK so that the rail industry can understand and assess the technical issues in such operations. If the pilot is successful it is hoped it will open the way for other Tram-Trains to run in other parts of the country.

Seven of the Vossloh vehicles will be provided as part of the project funding with four of these required for the service to Rotherham. The other three will provide some much needed extra capacity on Supertram during peak periods.

 

[tbtc]

The TramTrain won't serve Meadowhall.

It'll serve the existing Supertram lines as far as Meadowhall South (which mainly parallel a single track freight line)..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/923283...dhV-9xpGFZ-9xsFfS-9xpJ1V-7p5Xra-a7SMNx-9hT6P3

... and then follow that single track freight line as far as the Holmes Chord (and on to Rotherham Central....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/473647...Y4s-btxdqE-bcgESa-bAsne2-bBh6dc-bKx8ND-bSPgRX

...but these services won't serve Meadowhall station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to this report[/url] the contract has now been signed and the vehicles will be dual voltage. Presumably the OHLE will be designed with possible conversion in mind, with clearances suitable for 25kV.

Well that looks like progress.
There's quite a lot hanging on the success of the trial.

 

[Haydn1971]

Sheffield - Rotherham TramTrain actually extends beyond Rotherham Central, to Parkgate, I'm aware of a developed aspiration to extend a further half mile to a P&R site.

Interesting about the units being dual voltage though, but makes a lot of sense given the longer term aspirations for electrification in the area.

 

[Mugby]

Presumably the purpose of the extension to Parkgate is to give a boost to Parkgate Retail World.

It never seems to be paticularly busy whenever I pass by on the main line!

 

[mr_jrt]

This week I noticed that preperation work for the electrification is well under way in the Kettering area, large bags of aggregate on the embankment every 30 yards or so, some of the bases for the pylons are already in place.

Hope they're being smarter than they were in the past and not putting the bases where reinstated tracks would need to go

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This week I noticed that preperation work for the electrification is well under way in the Kettering area, large bags of aggregate on the embankment every 30 yards or so, some of the bases for the pylons are already in place.

Are you sure this is not just for the line speed upgrade or resignalling?
The upgrade plan predates the electrification plan by a year or two.
I doubt the planning for electrification has reached the installation stage.
Has a contract been let by NR? That's usually the trigger.
It usually takes a couple of years after authorisation before something happens on the track, and they've not had a year yet.
They haven't even let a contract for TP east yet, as far as I know, and that had another year's head start.

 

[38Cto15E]

I am assuming that all the trackside bags and the embankment scraping in places is to do with the MML electrification, perhaps if any board members are travelling between Wellingborough and Market Harborough they can keep their eyes open and report back.

 

[brianthegiant]

This week I noticed that preperation work for the electrification is well under way in the Kettering area, large bags of aggregate on the embankment every 30 yards or so, some of the bases for the pylons are already in place.

Were these poured concrete bases at a Junction?
could be bases for LED maintenance lighting presumably being installed at major junctions so points maintenance can be done at night. without having to setup temporary lighting every time. These were fitted at Trent Jn 6 months ago, the lights are about 5m apart all around the Jn. The bases are poured concrete in ~12" polypipe rigidrain with a unistrut base bolted to it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Numerous bags north of Mill Hill to north of St Albans - lots of track upgrade going on the down fast lines in particular - I suspect it is related to this - you need much design owkr for MML - which to my knowledge has not happened yet...

 

[Bald Rick]

Possibly refuges for position of safety for patrollers, as when the line speed goes over 100mph the position of safety moves from 1.25m to 2m from nearest rail IIRC.

 

[edwin_m]

Has all the work been finished for the speed upgrades that come in for the December timetable?

 

[38Cto15E]

Rick, that sounds feasible, the embankment has also been scraped in a few places. There were certainly plenty of small projects happening along the line last Thursday.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The electrification will come, you announce the spine of the network then the infills come soon after. Sheffield Moorthorpe isn't as exciting to announce as the MML. Thats how electrification has worked in the UK for the last 50 years. I researched it thoroughly for my dissertation

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Rick, that sounds feasible, the embankment has also been scraped in a few places. There were certainly plenty of small projects happening along the line last Thursday.

I live alongside the MML - north of St Albans , and those nice NR folk have written advising of numerous track works - ballast cleaning and laying / tamping between the 6/7/2013 and 7/12/2013 from Radlett to Harlington , using 750 metre long plant.(2100 Sat to 1700 hrs Sunday)

Baldrick is arranging a tea concession - with suitable safety case. Should make a fortune.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Has all the work been finished for the speed upgrades that come in for the December timetable?

No - see below...

 

[Bald Rick]

Baldrick is arranging a tea concession - with suitable safety case. Should make a fortune.

I might need to borrow a skip full of sugar.

 

[LTJ87]

Does anyone know what typical line speed improvements are expected from December?

I'm specifically interested in London St Pancras - Nottingham. Thanks.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone know what typical line speed improvements are expected from December?

I'm specifically interested in London St Pancras - Nottingham. Thanks.

It's all in April's Modern Railways. Nottingham saves 4 mins on the quick ones.

 

[snowball]

The new issue of Rail says the ORR has decided that the MML has to be wired by March 2019 (end of CFP5).

 

[YorkshireBear]

The new issue of Rail says the ORR has decided that the MML has to be wired by March 2019 (end of CFP5).

They better stump up the cash then hadn't they.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They (ORR) are saying that the money is there to be spent, so get on with it...
What's worrying about most of the long list of CP5 projects is that they are all at GRIP 0/1/2 without proper costings or milestones.