MML Electrification: progress updates

[Nottingham59]

There arent any 60moh freights from Nuneaton to MML south, except overnight.

There aren't any because they can't be accommodated in the daytime timetable - because there is no Up passing loop.

 

[21C101]

.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Half hourly Bedford to Leeds train. Is that a serious proposal.

Not really and/or not any more. It came under the umbrella of Midlands Connect (Conventional Compatible HS2) The idea was that when the Leeds branch of HS2 was open high speed trains could run on the electrified MML from Bedford and Leicester to a junction with HS2 near Toton hub, then whizz to Leeds. Leicester to Leeds in 46 mins. Coloured lines had been drawn on a map and there was an outline business case.

 

[Bald Rick]

There aren't any because they can't be accommodated in the daytime timetable - because there is no Up passing loop.

They could be accommodated with electric haulage, thats the point.

 

[Class 170101]

Frankly is the only way to slash costs per km is to go back to the ECML and space the masts out as far as possible and secondly close the line north of Leicester whilst the OLE is constructed and effectively build it as a 'greenfield' site for several months and route passengers to WCML / ECML and no bus replacement.

 

[Nottingham59]

Frankly is the only way to slash costs per km is to go back to the ECML and space the masts out as far as possible and secondly close the line north of Leicester whilst the OLE is constructed and effectively build it as a 'greenfield' site for several months and route passengers to WCML / ECML and no bus replacement.

What happened to the wonder train that was going to install a cable run every night on thr GWML?

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Frankly is the only way to slash costs per km is to go back to the ECML and space the masts out as far as possible

The impression I get from my experience of dealing with NR in the past and speaking to contractors is that although you could wring costs out by designing fewer masts per mile and chrome, rather than gold-plating, that would not get costs down to the level NR would like. Everything in a contract which the contractor identifies as risk or uncertainty will get priced-in at the tender stage. So things like; how restricted is my access to the site, am I required to have specialist plant, can I use my different trades efficiently, can I pre-order all my materials at once to get the best price, what is the risk my workforce and plant will be stood down - at my cost - due to changes of plan or failures of railway operations.

secondly close the line north of Leicester whilst the OLE is constructed and effectively build it as a 'greenfield' site for several months

If NR gave the contractor unlimited/unspecified access to the site and timing of work, they could come up with a method of working which used their plant and workforce most efficiently and got costs down significantly. But it needn't be as drastic as closing Leicester for months. I have worked with contractors who, having won the contract have come and said, actually we can do this cheaper - and pass some of the saving on to you, the client - if we can have a 10 hour block then a 16 hour block, instead of 2x13 hour blocks. They found a way which meant they only needed to hire in expensive plant for one shift rather than two. It's that kind of saving which NR should be aiming to price into their contracts at the tender stage by inviting tenders which don't unnecessarily restrict the contractor to having to work inefficiently. Easy to say, more difficult to do, if you are NR and are hide bound by track access agreements and process dogma.

 

[superkev]

A cab ride between Bedford and Leicester which looks fairly recent has just appeared on YouTube.
Almost all the piling and most masts look to be in along with a significant amount of overhead as far as Wigston.
Didn't notice any enabling works north of Wigston so presumably the piling team has been all but disbanded.
K
See

 

[edwin_m]

It's that kind of saving which NR should be aiming to price into their contracts at the tender stage by inviting tenders which don't unnecessarily restrict the contractor to having to work inefficiently. Easy to say, more difficult to do, if you are NR and are hide bound by track access agreements and process dogma.

There are standard contract models where if the contract comes in under budget the contractor and client share the gain, and if it goes over they share the pain. If done properly this should incentivise both parties to work together for the lowest total cost. I'm not an expert on NR contracting but I believe they do use something of this sort.

 

[Bald Rick]

Didn't notice any enabling works north of Wigston so presumably the piling team has been all but disbanded.

The ‘piling team’ are generally doing piling in non railway environments as well, so theyll still be workign snd will retain their experience.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

There are standard contract models where if the contract comes in under budget the contractor and client share the gain, and if it goes over they share the pain.

Yes and where costs can be reduced and the benefit shared it does incentivise cost reduction.

Possibly a topic for discussion on a different thread, but that kind of contract model would not save costs which are are priced-in at the tender stage because the tender documents are unnecessarily restrictive on the contractor being able to work efficiently.

 

[PJM]

A cab ride between Bedford and Leicester which looks fairly recent has just appeared on YouTube.
Almost all the piling and most masts look to be in along with a significant amount of overhead as far as Wigston.
Didn't notice any enabling works north of Wigston so presumably the piling team has been all but disbanded.
K
See

Brilliant, many thanks for posting. So clear to see the progress and the sketchy bits. Not far for completion.

 

[Nottingham59]

The ‘piling team’ are generally doing piling in non railway environments as well, so theyll still be workign snd will retain their experience.

Some piling skills are very railway specific. Such as not piling through buried signsl cables. We saw what happened on the GWML when non-railway piling teams got involved ....

would not save costs which are are priced-in at the tender stage because the tender documents are unnecessarily restrictive on the contractor being able to work efficiently.

Precisely. Most of the costs issues seem to me to derive from the Treasury procurement rules, and a lack of appreciation that it is client behaviour and practice that needs to change to drive down costs on your supply chain.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Some piling skills are very railway specific. Such as not piling through buried signsl cables. We saw what happened on the GWML when non-railway piling teams got involved ....

What I noticed on the G.W. was that the distance the piles projected above ground level varied widely but the MML ones are (with a few puzzling exceptions) very consistent. Is this a reflection of piling skill or some other cause ? (I think, may be wrong, that the varying height would have a effect on the mast geometry but probably explains why G.W. masts often apparently pointlessly extend above the cross members)

 

[Bald Rick]

Some piling skills are very railway specific. Such as not piling through buried signsl cables. We saw what happened on the GWML when non-railway piling teams got involved ....

Not piling through any live cables is a basic part of piling expertise, regardless of what the cables are for.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

it is client behaviour and practice that needs to change to drive down costs on your supply chain

Call-off contracts are a good example. The client can believe he's paring costs, because rather than having to plan in advance when he wants the contractor to provide a resource and risk paying for it when plans change and it's not used, he only pays for the times he actually uses it.

But if the contractor cannot predict when he will be called upon to provide the resource, he has to make provision for providing it at any time. That has a cost and it gets priced-in at the tender stage. Even if the contract is structured so that remuneration is based on outturn, that cost cannot be wrung out.

Client organisations can put a lot of effort into being very definitive in the terms of the call off contract. If only they put the same effort into being definitive about when the resource will actually be needed.

 

[superkev]

The ‘piling team’ are generally doing piling in non railway environments as well, so theyll still be workign snd will retain their experience.

When I say Piling I incuded all the rail specific plant as well as there trained operators. Criminal if its lost and plant and expertise has to be reactivated later at huge cost.
Im old enough to remember when the ECML electrifcation reached, but stopped at Hatfield. However BR civil engineer managed to keep the piling going until the full ECML was eventually authorised. Strange to see mile after mile of mast foundations.
K

 

[Bald Rick]

Im old enough to remember when the ECML electrifcation reached, but stopped at Hatfield. However BR civil engineer managed to keep the piling going until the full ECML was eventually authorised. Strange to see mile after mile of mast foundations.

I guess you mean Hitchin. Piling on the ECML north of there was done up to Huntingdon on BRs own authority, based on a nod and a wink from DfT that electrification to Leeds and Newcastle was going to be authorised.

All concrete foundations, of course.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I guess you mean Hitchin. Piling on the ECML north of there was done up to Huntingdon on BRs own authority, based on a nod and a wink from DfT that electrification to Leeds and Newcastle was going to be authorised.

All concrete foundations, of course.

I thought the piling method was introduced on the ECML electrification scheme? When did the concrete foundations reduce? North of Peterborough?

 

[59CosG95]

I thought the piling method was introduced on the ECML electrification scheme? When did the concrete foundations reduce? North of Peterborough?

Yes - IIRC it was Stoke Tunnel northwards that reaped the rewards of piling, and then only for single-track masts (e.g. pairs of STCs). Headspans, in the main, remained 'planted'.
Looking out the windows north of Grantham, one can see lots more piles.

 

[Trainben]

New decking now in place on Great Bowden footbridge.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2023 ==

Pic from this morning.

 

[Tim__]

I cycled over station road bridge Great Glen, it appears cabled. But then headed towards Kibworth and over that bridge no evidence of cabling. I'd assumed the cabling would be continuous from Market Harborough

 

[Edvid]

The wiring is done as and when it best fits the overall programme (taking bridge demolitions/adjustments* etc into account) - so you often have gaps on the route when it's well underway.

[* There are a bunch of weekend closures for these very tasks over the coming 6 weeks or so]

 

[snowball]

You can see from the video in #6758 that there's a good deal of alternation between wires and no wires.

 

[Tim__]

Harborough

The bit I should have added is that it wasn't cabled 2 weeks ago, so progress.

 

[snowball]

We were told balaises were not going to be used due to the changing swap over locations. There will just be reminder boards for us drivers to adhere to.

Modern Railways for November has an article on EMR on pp. 56-61. On page 58 it says EMR and NR are working to determine the locations of balises.

The idea that there would not be any balises "due to the changing swap over locations" always seemed implausible to me. The locations are only likely to change once every year or two.

Edit: and pp.62-64 are about MML electrification, not read yet.

 

[Snow1964]

Local radio stations website has lots of photos of rebuilding of bridge at Kibworth. Looks like some masts already up in the area too

Kibworth Rail Bridge Demolished As New Structure Takes Shape

A new bridge over the railway in Kibworth is starting to take shape after the old structure was demolished at the weekend. The historic pedestrian bridge off School Road was flattened and the new bridge structure craned into place while the line was closed to trains. Network Rail engineers

harboroughfm.co.uk

 

[duffield]

So, are there any bridges left (south of Wigston South junction) which still require replacement or raising, and where the work hasn't yet started?

 

[59CosG95]

So, are there any bridges left (south of Wigston South junction) which still require replacement or raising, and where the work hasn't yet started?

Only SPC3/34 (next to Braybrooke ATFS) I believe, but that's due to start imminently.
SPC3 bridges 42, 35, 28E, 28, 25, 24, 19 (done way back), 18, 10, 9, 8 (done way back), 7, 3 and possibly 2 have all had work to modify/demolish the bridge completed or underway.
SPC3 bridges 40, 39, 28D and 15 have all had track lowering completed or are in the midst of track lowering works.
SPC3 bridges 39, 38, 16B and possibly more are using surge arresters.

 

[duffield]

Only SPC3/34 (next to Braybrooke ATFS) I believe, but that's due to start imminently.
SPC3 bridges 42, 35, 28E, 28, 25, 24, 19 (done way back), 18, 10, 9, 8 (done way back), 7, 3 and possibly 2 have all had work to modify/demolish the bridge completed or underway.
SPC3 bridges 40, 39, 28D and 15 have all had track lowering completed or are in the midst of track lowering works.
SPC3 bridges 39, 38, 16B and possibly more are using surge arresters.

Thanks, very informative!