Missing a train due to a 'false' delay

[arb]

I've just missed a train because it was showing as "delayed" on the departure board - not any kind of expected departure time at all - and so I waited on the station concourse for warmth rather than going out to the platform that was shown for it. It suddenly vanished from the departure board completely, and, upon querying this with a staff member, I was told that it had left a few minutes earlier. No major harm done in this instance as it was a frequent service and there was another train about 10 minutes later.

But ... I've always thought "delayed" meant the train was "lost" to the tracking system somewhere before the station in question, and hadn't turned up at its next timing point when it was expected to. And that the departure boards would therefore always update to show an estimated time (I've chosen my words carefully there based on the rest of this thread ) when the train did eventually pass through a timing point. I don't recall ever before seeing a train depart a station whilst the departure boards still showed it as "delayed". Is this common? The staff member I spoke to told me that I should only expect to see a departure time on the boards for a delayed train "9 times out of 10", suggesting it's a fairly frequent occurrence, but that doesn't tie in with my past experience of how delayed trains are shown!

 

[causton]

Yes, you are broadly correct.

For example if a train at Watford is coming from Euston and just says "Delayed" you can probably assume it is still at Euston.

However:

Sometimes trains are put in with the wrong headcode, or headcode not changed when they change service, so they will show as "Delayed" when there is nothing wrong with them!

And today the Train Describer feed went down so I came off a train at Bletchley which said it was Delayed (left on time) - and onto the Marston Vale train which said "Delayed" on the boards (once again, we left on time!)

 

[infobleep]

It depends on the environment. For example, I'd assert that most GTR commuters a) have smartphones and b) have at least one tool for finding out what is going on with the trains.

Information on PIS and from platform staff is often just not available or plain wrong. Smartphone apps/asking questions on twitter provide better information.

The issue is that mobile phone reception isn't always great at stations and many don't have free WiFi.

There have been times at Clapaum Junction were I can't look up what is going on as not enough reception or what there is, is used up by others. It happened to me tonight.

 

[infobleep]

The other day ideas on a stopper towards Redhill. App said we'd be 7 minutes late leavig Chilworth. It was 5 minutes. App didn't update for some minutes but when it did, it said we'd been 9 minutes late which wasn't right.

The other day a train to Wimbledon was 7 minutes late at one stage so some stops were removed. I thought the train might make.up some lost time as train in front cancelled.

However I did think staff know better and if they think train won't make up lost time, then it won't. As it turned out the train did indeed make.up some lost and the stops were reinstated.

 

[IanXC]

I've just missed a train because it was showing as "delayed" on the departure board - not any kind of expected departure time at all - and so I waited on the station concourse for warmth rather than going out to the platform that was shown for it. It suddenly vanished from the departure board completely, and, upon querying this with a staff member, I was told that it had left a few minutes earlier. No major harm done in this instance as it was a frequent service and there was another train about 10 minutes later.

But ... I've always thought "delayed" meant the train was "lost" to the tracking system somewhere before the station in question, and hadn't turned up at its next timing point when it was expected to. And that the departure boards would therefore always update to show an estimated time (I've chosen my words carefully there based on the rest of this thread ) when the train did eventually pass through a timing point. I don't recall ever before seeing a train depart a station whilst the departure boards still showed it as "delayed". Is this common? The staff member I spoke to told me that I should only expect to see a departure time on the boards for a delayed train "9 times out of 10", suggesting it's a fairly frequent occurrence, but that doesn't tie in with my past experience of how delayed trains are shown!

Yes, you are broadly correct.

For example if a train at Watford is coming from Euston and just says "Delayed" you can probably assume it is still at Euston.

However:

Sometimes trains are put in with the wrong headcode, or headcode not changed when they change service, so they will show as "Delayed" when there is nothing wrong with them!

And today the Train Describer feed went down so I came off a train at Bletchley which said it was Delayed (left on time) - and onto the Marston Vale train which said "Delayed" on the boards (once again, we left on time!)

There is also an issue where empty stock movements are shown to shunt units around the station, and Signallers fail to enter times in these paths, preferring to use as hoc shunts. This results in the empty stock movement becoming 'delayed' and hence the same effect as a late inbound passenger train.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I've just missed a train because it was showing as "delayed" on the departure board - not any kind of expected departure time at all - and so I waited on the station concourse for warmth rather than going out to the platform that was shown for it. It suddenly vanished from the departure board completely, and, upon querying this with a staff member, I was told that it had left a few minutes earlier. No major harm done in this instance as it was a frequent service and there was another train about 10 minutes later.

That is pretty damn shoddy to be honest. So are we now saying someone is expected to wait on the platform rather than say, I don't know, the waiting room, if their train is shown as delayed, just incase the systems are actually wrong and its on time? Was there no PA announcement to say that the train was actually on time?

 

[arb]

That is pretty damn shoddy to be honest. So are we now saying someone is expected to wait on the platform rather than say, I don't know, the waiting room, if their train is shown as delayed, just incase the systems are actually wrong and its on time? Was there no PA announcement to say that the train was actually on time?

I was in the concourse/ticket office area, and I don't think they do PA announcements there (this was at Cambridge). True, I could have gone to the waiting room, which might be different with regard to announcements, and there might have been more info there. But, force of habit, I've always waited in the concourse until 5 minutes or so before the expected departure time of the train, and never had a problem trusting the info on the departure boards before.

 

[arb]

This evening I witnessed three more trains at Cambridge vanish from the departure board whilst showing "Delayed" (all going in the opposite direction to my train, so not affecting me).

The first was the 17:49 to King's Cross from platform 1 (I couldn't see this from the concourse, so I don't know if it was there or not).
The second was the 17:56 to King's Cross from platform 7 (I saw this one leave, and it vanished from boards immediately after leaving).
The third was a train to Liverpool Street from platform 8, for which I can't remember the displayed departure time. There was a train on platform 8, but it didn't leave, so I guess this one was cancelled.

So definitely one, and maybe two, trains departed the station whilst still showing as "Delayed" and with no expected departure time shown. And another probably cancelled without being shown as cancelled. So my experience last week wasn't a one-off. This does seem to me like a change in how information about delays is being presented to passengers, because I don't remember ever seeing it happen before. That said, I wasn't actively looking out for it before it affected me last week, so who knows!

 

[IanXC]

This evening I witnessed three more trains at Cambridge vanish from the departure board whilst showing "Delayed" (all going in the opposite direction to my train, so not affecting me).

The first was the 17:49 to King's Cross from platform 1 (I couldn't see this from the concourse, so I don't know if it was there or not).
The second was the 17:56 to King's Cross from platform 7 (I saw this one leave, and it vanished from boards immediately after leaving).
The third was a train to Liverpool Street from platform 8, for which I can't remember the displayed departure time. There was a train on platform 8, but it didn't leave, so I guess this one was cancelled.

So definitely one, and maybe two, trains departed the station whilst still showing as "Delayed" and with no expected departure time shown. And another probably cancelled without being shown as cancelled. So my experience last week wasn't a one-off. This does seem to me like a change in how information about delays is being presented to passengers, because I don't remember ever seeing it happen before. That said, I wasn't actively looking out for it before it affected me last week, so who knows!

Looks like the Train Describers failed in the Cambridge area at that time.

1749 to Kings Cross didn't report until Foxton
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G72681/2018/03/01/advanced

1756 to Kings Cross also didn't report until Foxton
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G79226/2018/03/01/advanced

The cancelled train would appear to be this one
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G02350/2018/03/01/advanced

If theres no report on where the train is, and the area would usually report the train's location, then the CIS has no way of knowing that it actually has set off so will report as Delayed until the train reports. In these instances from what you've said the station announcer has manually removed the train from the boards when it has left, otherwise it would have remained listed as Delayed until it did time in (in this case at Foxton).

 

[FenMan]

We were at Reading on Saturday, planning to catch the 20:34 North Downs Line service. All the station departure boards had this service as "Delayed". We ventured over to the platform anyway (it wasn't the normal platform 4-6) and were told by platform staff to run, which we did. The doors closed behind us and we departed on schedule .... I wonder how many passengers missed it due to misleading info on the departure boards?

 

[pnjman]

I got caught out by this twice yesterday.

On the way into work the 09:12 from New Street to University went from "Delayed" to running with very little notice, I was sat at the top of the stairs, ran down to the doors shutting on me.

Then on the way home the 17:52 from New Street to Hinckley was delayed by 40 minutes, so I go wait it out in the pub, check the time of the next train and see the 17:52 went on time. When I got the next train there were at least four other people who got caught out by it. Very annoying.