Missed connection due to ticket checks

[Hadders]

Barnham is 2 minutes when changing between Southern services.

 

[Haywain]

Evidence?
What about all the other stations?

Knowledge.

It is not wrong just because you choose not to believe it.

 

[Bill Badger]

Barnham is 2 minutes when changing between Southern services.

St Erth is 2 minutes too.

 

[northwichcat]

The prescribed minimum connection time at Manchester Picc is 10 minutes, for what it's worth.

Indeed. Which means sometimes Journey Planners advise a change at Oxford Rd instead of Piccadilly (due to the shorter minimum connection time) even when it would the same platform at Piccadilly but a different platform at Oxford Road!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How would you prove you were delayed ?

The same question can be asked for Delay Repay in general. A stamp on your ticket might indicate which service you actually travelled on but otherwise on non-Advance tickets there's no way of knowing which service you travelled on.

 

[Llanigraham]

Knowledge.

It is not wrong just because you choose not to believe it.

Sorry, but that is not evidence, just personal opinion.
You have stated a categorical percentage but really you can't substantiate it.
Therefore it is meaningless and pointless.

 

[bb21]

Sorry, but that is not evidence, just personal opinion.
You have stated a categorical percentage but really you can't substantiate it.
Therefore it is meaningless and pointless.

I think given Haywain's position, I would say he has direct access to such data.

For obvious reasons I am unable to go into too much detail. You don't have to believe me but you can take it from me that he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Llanigraham]

And how are we supposed to know what his "position" is?
I certainly don't, and I doubt I'm not the only one.

 

[bb21]

And how are we supposed to know what his "position" is?
I certainly don't, and I doubt I'm not the only one.

As I said, you don't have to believe me. It is your choice.

 

[najaB]

And how are we supposed to know what his "position" is?
I certainly don't, and I doubt I'm not the only one.

I have no reason to doubt Haywain's figures, particularly as they match my personal observations. Given how many industry 'insiders' are forum members, I have no reason to doubt bb21's subtle hints.

 

[Tom Quayle]

A resounding confirmed yes to Missed connections was half hour late into Euston which delayed my onward by an hour so claimed back the whole price of the single journey from Virgin while I waited at Waterloo and then ended up 2 hours late after someone switched Fratton and Liss off completely so claiming against swt for that leg aswell,

Got £117 back off Virgin for me and my friend I was travelling with.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Take a picture of your ticket and ask the guard for the train reporting number and go through the contact us pages of the TOCs website. Virgin have a specific button but swt don't had to email them

 

[455driver]

A resounding confirmed yes to Missed connections was half hour late into Euston which delayed my onward by an hour so claimed back the whole price of the single journey from Virgin while I waited at Waterloo and then ended up 2 hours late after someone switched Fratton and Liss off completely so claiming against swt for that leg aswell,

Got £117 back off Virgin for me and my friend I was travelling with.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Take a picture of your ticket and ask the guard for the train reporting number and go through the contact us pages of the TOCs website. Virgin have a specific button but swt don't had to email them

So after claiming a 100% refund off Virgin you then fraudulently claimed off SWT as well!

 

[Tom Quayle]

Full refund for the part of the journey provided by Virgin so Lancaster to London Euston. I'm claiming for Waterloo to Portsmouth against South west trains. Virgin caused an hour delay so I claimed for Lancaster to Euston. Then train from Waterloo was cancelled short at Havant so claimed for that against swt.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I will also state that I made South west trains aware of the fact I had claimed for the previous leg separately. Our full ticket price was £223. I've claimed back £117 for Lancaster to Euston so as far as I'm concerned according to the rules on how much you can claim on the delay minutes that applied South west trains owe for the rest as a revised arrival time into Portsmouth was 18:22 rather than the booked 16:09. Which would have been 15:09 if it wasn't for Virgin delay.


It's a complex example I know but I see splitting it as the best way to ensure the right company pays for the delay that they will then claim back for the right region of network rail. I don't see why a track circuit failure at Gretna jn should affect the performance figures of the southern, in the same way a power failure at Fratton shouldn't affect the score of LNW. Yeah we are a little competitive sometimes in the pway depots lol.

Plus as an aside I will always claim for delays of over 30 minutes, simply because the sly TOCs claim from network rail for every minute and that affects the bonus of the hard working front line maintenance staff like myself.

 

[northwichcat]

So after claiming a 100% refund off Virgin you then fraudulently claimed off SWT as well!

Just reading that made me think. Last year I made a return journey from Cheshire to Yorkshire which included a change at Manchester, returning on a different day to the day I travelled out. I bought an Off-Peak Return from my origin station to Huddersfield and an Advance ticket between Huddersfield and my final destination and another Advance back to Huddersfield on a different day..

On the return leg a points failure caused me to arrive 60 minutes late. I put in a claim to TPE and they sent me RTVs for the total amount of the Advance ticket back to Huddersfield and the total amount of the Off-Peak Return.

However, what if on the outbound leg I'd experienced a delay with Northern of 60 minutes and had already put in a claim before making the return leg? Northern being less generous would have only given 25% of the cost of the Off-Peak Return in RTVs.

 

[Tom Quayle]

In this case I'd say you would have been ok as long as their wasn't a 100% refund on the off peak return. It's only when it's over 2 hours they have to fully refund it.

In the case you put forward I'd say in an Ideal northern would pay half the price of your return and the outward advanced and trans pennine would pay the other half of the return and the returning advanced.

 

[northwichcat]

In this case I'd say you would have been ok as long as their wasn't a 100% refund on the off peak return. It's only when it's over 2 hours they have to fully refund it.

In the case you put forward I'd say in an Ideal northern would pay half the price of your return and the outward advanced and trans pennine would pay the other half of the return and the returning advanced.

But TPE did send RTVs for the full cost of the Off-Peak Return. Their passenger's charter says

If you hold a ticket for a single or return journey, or a weekly Season
Ticket (not Passenger Transport Executive products), and a delay to a
First TransPennine Express service adds 30 minutes or longer to your
journey, we will offer you National Rail travel vouchers for the full cost
of the single leg of your journey that was delayed, i.e. 100%
compensation for single tickets and 50% for return tickets.
If you are delayed for more than one hour, we will offer you National
Rail travel vouchers for the full cost of your entire journey.

In the case of my journey there was no delay on the outbound journey and I made the return journey 3 days after the outbound one. However, it's possible someone could make their return journey 4 weeks after the outbound one and in cases like that where there is a delay on the outbound journey:
1. Would you want to wait 4 weeks before putting in a claim?
2. Even if you claimed on the same day to both TOCs would they be allowed to share your information to ensure they don't give you over 100% of the cost of your ticket between them?

 

[maniacmartin]

It's not referred to as a refund, but as compensation. I see no reason why compensation cannot exceed the value paid in the first place, if there was a sufficient level of inconvenience caused on both inbound and outbound legs

 

[Haywain]

I don't expect this to happen anytime soon, but perhaps the DfT should insist that all TOCs have a standard set of compensation arrangements under Delay Repay. Then claims could go through a central clearing house so that the punter who has suffered while travelling on multiple TOCs doesn't have to worry about who to claim from.

 

[najaB]

Then claims could go through a central clearing house so that the punter who has suffered while travelling on multiple TOCs doesn't have to worry about who to claim from.

That makes so much sense that there is no way it will happen.

 

[Tom Quayle]

Naja has a point there, 8 years in the rail industry has taught me to apply logic and common sense to work out the opposite of what will happen

 

[Ianigsy]

Wouldn't surprise me if this hadn't happened at least some of the time at Manchester Victoria before the barriers were put in recently. Under the previous arrangement, if you arrived on a train which terminated in one of the bays (so anything from the Calder Valley not carrying on to the west), you were liable to be held in a queue for ticket inspection and/or sales; one Saturday morning this was taking so long that the last people from one train were still being checked as the next train arrived (so 15 mins at least). Not ideal if you miss the hourly Clitheroe train, or indeed if you were planning to connect at Wigan for Scotland or Newton-le-Willows or Earlestown for North Wales, as some folk from (e.g. Rochdale) might want to do.

 

[gray1404]

My understanding if that if you are delayed you should make your claim to the TOC whose service you were on when things first started to go wrong. Of course, there are some exceptions to this but as a general rule.

 

[northwichcat]

My understanding if that if you are delayed you should make your claim to the TOC whose service you were on when things first started to go wrong. Of course, there are some exceptions to this but as a general rule.

Indeed. Also my understanding is if you, for instance, had a 10 minute delay on an ATW service which caused you to miss a connection and then had a further 40 minute delay on a Virgin service and put in a claim to Virgin then Virgin would forward the claim to ATW.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Are there any? I think Leamington has a +3 when going from Chiltern to Chiltern but I can't think of any lower than that.

High Wycombe is apparently +1 min, which is ludicrous for a change involving the footbridge. I think it must be a typo from +10 minutes which would be ludicrous in the other direction.

 

[Starmill]

I think you will find that Cowdenbeath is 0 minutes