Missed connection due to ticket checks

[beeza1]

Hypothetical question,
Would you be eligible for Delay Repay if you missed your connection due to a revenue block?
A couple of times I have had a tight connection at Manchester Piccadilly when there has been a revenue block at the concourse end of the platform, not wanting to miss my connection I go up the stairs at the other end of the platform and access my departure platform that way,(I have a valid ticket of course).
Who would be liable for delay repay if the train you arrived on was on time and you missed your train purely because of the ticket check which could be manned by staff from a different TOC or even a private security company?

 

[Starmill]

If you're connecting, then yes, definitely. Excessive queing isn't your fault.

BUT if it's the start of your journey, probably not, no. Passengers are effectively required to queue indefinitely, missing any number of trains, or risk prosecution for beginning their journey without a valid ticket.If the queue is before you board your first train, the likely response from the train company would be that you should have arrived earlier.

 

[gray1404]

You've more likely had a tight connection at Piccadilly because your incoming train was running late. If the minimum connection time for that station is allowed for, you should have enough time to get through a revenue block and still make your connection. If this doesn't happen when a block is in place then it is most likely because you first train was late arriving, and therefore any claim would be to the TOC operating that service.

 

[yorkie]

Of course you would , absolutely

 

[beeza1]

You've more likely had a tight connection at Piccadilly because your incoming train was running late. If the minimum connection time for that station is allowed for, you should have enough time to get through a revenue block and still make your connection. If this doesn't happen when a block is in place then it is most likely because you first train was late arriving, and therefore any claim would be to the TOC operating that service.

As I stated it is a hypothetical question, I was just using my experience at Piccadilly as an example, the same situation could possibly arise at other stations. On the day in question if I recall correctly, my train (TPE) was running late, but would still have allowed me the minimum connection time, passengers were alighting from a Northern service on the adjoining platform, many of them without tickets, they were having to purchase tickets on the platform, this is what was causing the problem.
Sorry to have to ask again but, which TOC would be liable?

 

[najaB]

Would you be eligible for Delay Repay if you missed your connection due to a revenue block?

Yes, as long as it was a valid connection.

Who would be liable for delay repay if the train you arrived on was on time and you missed your train purely because of the ticket check which could be manned by staff from a different TOC or even a private security company?

I think it should be whichever TOC manages the station, if a Network Rail managed station whichever TOC the operation is being run on behalf of. They authorised the revenue operation so they are responsible for the consequences thereof.

The only problem I can see is that if the TOC is intransigent it will be difficult to prove that the block caused your delay and that you didn't just go wandering off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

BUT if it's the start of your journey, probably not, no. Passengers are effectively required to queue indefinitely, missing any number of trains, or risk prosecution for beginning their journey without a valid ticket.

Or, like the majority of passengers, they can get their tickets the day/week/month before. I don't see how this rant comment is relevant to the OP's topic "Missed connection due to ticket checks"

 

[island]

If you allowed the prescribed minimum time to make your connection, and had not committed any ticketing offences, then I think you would have a valid claim for delay compensation.

 

[gray1404]

surely though the minimum connection time at the station should take into account such ticket checks, I am assuming it does already.

It must be annoying though if your incoming service is late and you miss your onward connection - which you would not have missed had the revenue block not been in place on that day.

 

[najaB]

surely though the minimum connection time at the station should take into account such ticket checks, I am assuming it does already.

I doubt they do. Minimum connection times are just a rough guide of how long the 'average' person would need to make a connection on an 'average' day. Revenue stings are, by their very nature, not average in any way.

 

[island]

The prescribed minimum connection time at Manchester Picc is 10 minutes, for what it's worth.

 

[martinsh]

The prescribed minimum connection time at Manchester Picc is 10 minutes, for what it's worth.

There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear ...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Be wary of turning around when you see them - it could make them want to check you more thoroughly, delaying you even more.

 

[Bungle965]

10 normally should be more than enough time unless you have a lot off lugage and you need to get over to platoform 13/14.
Sam

 

[Starmill]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Or, like the majority of passengers, they can get their tickets the day/week/month before. I don't see how this rant comment is relevant to the OP's topic "Missed connection due to ticket checks"

A 'majority of passengers' buy their tickets at least one day in advance? Really? Well news to me. Anyway if they're changing between two National Rail trains at a valid connection then of course this applies. But most people's journeys involve connections between different modes of transport. The fact your delay claim is valid if you arrive by train, but not by Metrolink Tram (even if it was a National Rail service that was withdrawn and replaced by the tram) is perhaps a good demonstration of that.

Alternatively, if you disagree that passengers are effectively required to queue indefinitely or think this is somehow a reasonable policy, I'm sure a good discussion can be had on that in a new thread.

 

[najaB]

A 'majority of passengers' buy their tickets at least one day in advance? Really? Well news to me.

Stand at any major station and compare the number of people who go to the ticket office to the number who already have their tickets. Even at ticket machines, my experience is that more people are collecting than purchasing.

 

[island]

A 'majority of passengers' buy their tickets at least one day in advance? Really? Well news to me. Anyway if they're changing between two National Rail trains at a valid connection then of course this applies. But most people's journeys involve connections between different modes of transport.

You deride najaB's assertion that most passengers buy their tickets in advance — which seems to me entirely plausible given the number of journeys made using season tickets — and yet follow up with an equally sweeping generalization about multi-mode journeys.

 

[matt_world2004]

In a similar vain to this, if you worked for a particular train operating company and were delayed significantly due to ticket checks carried out by that company when travelling on their services home. Could you put a claim for overtime in :P

 

[tony6499]

How would you prove you were delayed ?

 

[cookie365]

Just politely queue jump explaining loudly but apologetically that your connection leaves in 2 minutes.

 

[talltim]

A 'majority of passengers' buy their tickets at least one day in advance?

He didn't say 'do', he said 'can'

 

[steve a]

10 normally should be more than enough time unless you have a lot off lugage and you need to get over to platoform 13/14.
Sam

It takes me about 3 minutes or less to get from platform 13 to Platform 5/6/7

10 minutes allows plenty of time for somebody with luggage to get from platform 13 to platform 1

 

[FQ]

I have actually missed a (winner) train at Stockport before due to the revenue block. I am not sure what the minimum connection time is but I am assuming I can't put delay repay in to Northern as it was a plus 1.

 

[PermitToTravel]

+5. As I'm sure you're aware, very very few stations have an MCT of +1

 

[jrh2254]

BUT if it's the start of your journey, probably not, no. Passengers are effectively required to queue indefinitely, missing any number of trains, or risk prosecution for beginning their journey without a valid ticket.If the queue is before you board your first train, the likely response from the train company would be that you should have arrived earlier.

That's what I think the position is as well. One day from the train I witnessed a long queue of people having their tickets checked by the revenue inspectors and the train doors about to lock with several passengers still in the queue waiting for their tickets to be checked. Then a person came from the back of the queue bypassed the long queue, waved his tickets at the inspectors, got onto to platform and onto the 7 coach HST, opening and closing the door behind him. It was clear the revenue inspectors were telling him to come back but it all happened so quickly. Within a few seconds the train was pulling out of the station. I am sure a few railway byelaws were broken but he made it onto the train!

 

[island]

If there was a barrier of some sort in place, it's a byelaw offence to pass through a barrier otherwise than in the right manner.

 

[Hadders]

If there was a barrier of some sort in place, it's a byelaw offence to pass through a barrier otherwise than in the right manner.

I'd take some pictures of the queue and get the Daily Hate involved. Train company would probably back down.

 

[Tibbs]

Stand at any major station and compare the number of people who go to the ticket office to the number who already have their tickets. Even at ticket machines, my experience is that more people are collecting than purchasing.

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

 

[Haywain]

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

Around 90% of people using ticket vending machines at major stations are collecting pre-booked tickets. That is not anecdotal.

 

[Llanigraham]

Around 90% of people using ticket vending machines at major stations are collecting pre-booked tickets. That is not anecdotal.

Evidence?
What about all the other stations?

 

[FQ]

+5. As I'm sure you're aware, very very few stations have an MCT of +1

Are there any? I think Leamington has a +3 when going from Chiltern to Chiltern but I can't think of any lower than that.