Midland Mainline Class 170 Turbostars Replaced What?

[ChilternTurbo]

Found a video of the Turbostars on their first day at MML!

The Midland Mainline livery rather suited them, although the deer/stag always reminded me of the 'Babycham' logo...

 

[dk1]

The Midland Mainline livery rather suited them, although the deer/stag always reminded me of the 'Babycham' logo...

And as soon as the window got smashed it got decappitated never to be replaced.

 

[edwin_m]

What are these 'RVAR' things, and why did the MML 170s have to be introduced before they applied?

Rail Vehicle Accessiblity Regulations, prescribing accessible toilets, information displays, priority seats etc, but only for new stock coming into service after a cut-off date which was I think 31 December 1997. Older stock remaining in service after 2020 will have be modified to meet a similar set of rules.

 

[Emblematic]

Rail Vehicle Accessiblity Regulations, prescribing accessible toilets, information displays, priority seats etc, but only for new stock coming into service after a cut-off date which was I think 31 December 1997. Older stock remaining in service after 2020 will have be modified to meet a similar set of rules.

The in-service date was December 1998, but the rest is correct. It should be pointed out that the manufacturers were not avoiding making their trains accessible, but the exact details of the legislation were unclear during the design stage, so there was a risk of missing some of the specifications (which did change from earlier drafts.) The early 170s are very close to compliance for 2020, with some minor dimension discrepancies which will probably be given dispensations. It caused issues for other units around this time, the class 458s notably needed the PIS displays replacing.

 

[whhistle]

The brief period where 170s were considered suitable units for mainline express services (on the MML, ECML and GEML) was a weird time

I'd argue that they weren't really "intercity" type work though, as the stops were frequent compared with the HST. If the Turbostars were 4/5 coaches long, they were quite suitable for the stopping services surely?

Can't really comment on other operator uses.

 

[xc170]

Slightly off topic, but after watching the video linked to the 170's first day in service, this came up in the suggestions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMpPnYLEkY worth a watch....

 

[Mikey C]

I'd argue that they weren't really "intercity" type work though, as the stops were frequent compared with the HST. If the Turbostars were 4/5 coaches long, they were quite suitable for the stopping services surely?

Can't really comment on other operator uses.

Yes, more akin to the Chiltern 168s operating to Birmingham or the London Midland 350s.

 

[Mikey C]

The time when 2-car DMUs were felt suitable for such services, more interestingly. A railway still with a feel of decline in many ways.

A little bit harsh, considering these were for additional services. Maybe 175/180s with their end doors might have been more appropriate?

 

[Helvellyn]

The in-service date was December 1998, but the rest is correct. It should be pointed out that the manufacturers were not avoiding making their trains accessible, but the exact details of the legislation were unclear during the design stage, so there was a risk of missing some of the specifications (which did change from earlier drafts.) The early 170s are very close to compliance for 2020, with some minor dimension discrepancies which will probably be given dispensations. It caused issues for other units around this time, the class 458s notably needed the PIS displays replacing.

Not quite with the 458s - the LED colour was changed and the bulbs were slightly spread out across the vertical axis to achieve the correct height! They were only milimetres out for compliance. The disabled loos had to be modified though because they were not compliant - I think the regulations require that the sink be used from a sitting position, i.e. on the loo.

 

[woodhouse122]

i can remember doing the 170s from sheffield to barnsley and back when they with midland mainline (around lunchtime if i can remember) used to be a good run (plus there used to be free hot drinks as well )

 

[Mugby]

There was some controversy surrounding the procurement of the Midland Mainline 170s which led to the then incumbent managing director being sacked. I can't remember the exact details but I understand they were ordered without the necessary authority or approval.

I remember them as being totally inadequate and unsuitable for the purpose, the pitch of the standard seating made legroom almost non existent, some seats were inward facing and some were very close to the toilet door. I believe they were poor performers at first too, such as climbing northwards away from Kettering with a full load, they struggled quite noticeably.

The full enhanced service was due to start from mid-1999. The service before that was really quite abysmal, one train per hour from Derby, stopping at three or four intermediate stations, if it didn't stop at the one you wanted, you changed at Leicester and waited half an hour for the one from Nottingham which probably did.
Amazingly, the service reduced to every hour and a half on Saturdays. not even as good as in BR days.

I never thought the additional centre car in the 170s mad a great deal of difference, a substantial part of it was taken up by the first class section and the buffet section which was not exactly a great idea but it was just at the time when first class passengers started to get the free goodies.
The best thing about the centre cars was after the whole lot was transferred to XC and the first class was de-classified. I had several comfortable rides from Derby to Cardiff in the pseudo first class area, which rapidly became very tatty indeed!

 

[MCR247]

I never thought the additional centre car in the 170s mad a great deal of difference, a substantial part of it was taken up by the first class section and the buffet section which was not exactly a great idea but it was just at the time when first class passengers started to get the free goodies.
The best thing about the centre cars was after the whole lot was transferred to XC and the first class was de-classified. I had several comfortable rides from Derby to Cardiff in the pseudo first class area, which rapidly became very tatty indeed!

Indeed, when they were with Central they could be found on Derby - Matlock or even Skegness runs with their random unit generator

 

[sjoh]

Slightly off topic, but after watching the video linked to the 170's first day in service, this came up in the suggestions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMpPnYLEkY worth a watch....

Christ. The 90's eh.