Merseyrail why does it finish so early

[cactustwirly]

I was looking on RTT just out of curiosity, and I noticed that the Wirral line finishes before midnight.
I would have thought that a commuter/metro service would finish later on in the evening ie after 1am.

 

[185143]

I was looking on RTT just out of curiosity, and I noticed that the Wirral line finishes before midnight.
I would have thought that a commuter/metro service would finish later on in the evening ie after 1am.

Because there's too many scousers like to kick off after a night on the sauce! (probably)

 

[380gk]

I was looking on RTT just out of curiosity, and I noticed that the Wirral line finishes before midnight.
I would have thought that a commuter/metro service would finish later on in the evening ie after 1am.

Most big cities are the same.
Glasgow your latest train is the 0015 to Ayr via Paisley. There are some later trains on a Friday, but the last train on a Saturday from central is before midnight too.

 

[NSE]

And here I sit desperately awaiting 24/7 service on everything Oyster haha

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Last service train Chester-Liverpool is 2300.
There is a 2330 to Hooton which is then ECS all the way through the tunnels via Liverpool Central (reversing in the Northern Line platforms) to Kirkdale depot.
Finally there are 2359 and 0030 ECS trains to Birkenhead Central and Rock Ferry.
So there are several later trains, but not in service.

 

[cactustwirly]

Last service train Chester-Liverpool is 2300.
There is a 2330 to Hooton which is then ECS all the way through the tunnels via Liverpool Central (reversing in the Northern Line platforms) to Kirkdale depot.
Finally there are 2359 and 0030 ECS trains to Birkenhead Central and Rock Ferry.
So there are several later trains, but not in service.

I think turning those into passenger services and adding an extra trip to New Brighton & Rock Ferry after midnight, would make a huge difference.

 

[yorksrob]

Midnight ?

Luxury compared to west Yorkshire.

The best we can manage on the Hallam line is a pathetic 22:37, and even that manages to just miss connections from the Dales and Hull/Selby.

I dream of a departure near to midnight.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just had a look at the Nuremberg S bahn (similar sized city to Liverpool), there are trains until 01:30 am.

 

[Chester1]

People are used to taking the train to Liverpool and taking a bus or taxis back. While it would be useful to have later services it would mean trouble with the unions. As DOO is introduced it could be a good way of limiting redundancy of fixed term contract staff. Finishing in the early hours of the morning two nights a week would be close to an extra shifts worth of work and therefore require higher overall staffing levels and would probably pay for itself.

 

[notlob.divad]

The Merseyrail Wirral and Northern Lines are still a lot later than the city lines.

Compare:
Manchester Via Warrington @ 23:38
Manchester Via Newton-Le-Willows @ 23:19
Preston Via Wigan & St Helens @ 23:02
(None of which appear to improve with the new franchise)

With:
Kirkby @ 23:55
New Brighton @ 23:50
Chester @ 23:45
Hunts Cross @ 23:44
Ormskirk @ 23:40
Southport @ 23:38
West Kirby @ 23:35
Ellesmere Port @ 23:30

It is in my opinion quite ridiculous. You cannot go to a concert at the Arena by train as there is no way you will get back to Lime Street in time for the train back. If you go to a theatre or the Philharmonic for the evening you still end up on the last trains home, crammed in with everyone who has been for a boozy night out.

A couple of friends of mine went to see a presentation by Ray Mears at the Philharmonic on a Saturday Night. They had to leave half way through because of how early the last train home was.

So the insults thrown around about drunk scousers can stop, however tongue in cheek they may be. I agree that all of the lines but in particular those heading east out of the city should have a later trains running. However I am also aware that other major city regions suffer from the same problems.

I have recently moved away, and so no longer have to suffer the indignation of a good night being cut short. Where I live now we have a lovely all stops train that drops from its normal 15/20 minute frequency to 1tph all through the night, which is great and allows us to get back from friends, the cinema, the theatre whatever time it finishes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thameslink? Not many other lines have 24 hour service.

 

[Camden]

Because there's too many scousers like to kick off after a night on the sauce! (probably)

The city has a much lower crime rate than most of the other big cities, has a "Purple Flag" awarded for being safe at night time and I have to say is one place I feel completely safe walking around after dark.

And, whose public transport system I very much admire as offering a far superior atmosphere all round (versus say parts of the Northern Line south of Tooting at certain times, any part of Manchester's Metrolink at almost any time, various trains in and around Cheshire at the weekend, the trains out of Leeds at a weekend...).

Where do you get this idea from?

I was looking on RTT just out of curiosity, and I noticed that the Wirral line finishes before midnight.
I would have thought that a commuter/metro service would finish later on in the evening ie after 1am.

Money v Demand

 

[Starmill]

Merseyrail offer by far the best late evening rail transport of any Northern city, with the possible exception of Metrolink who offer later services (with last trams departing 0030 - 0100) on Friday and Saturday nights only.

Metrolink and Merseyrail are also the only ones that do not cut frequency of the evening service too. The standard pattern runs right up to the last train.

I will give you a good example - Manchester to Rochdale has a daytime frequency of 4tph. After 2000:

2025
2101
2126
2226
2250
2321

And that is one of the better ones.

Manchester to Marple is usually 2tph, but 4tph run for several hours in the evening peak. After 2000:

2045
2149
2249
2324

Leeds to Garforth has 3tph with more in the evening peak. After 2000:

2052
2150
2300

Liverpool to Wigan has 3tph during the day. After 2000:

2030
2047
2147
2302

Leeds to Hebden Bridge is 4tph during the day. After 2000:

2005
2035
2108
2135
2235


The final service from Manchester to Pemerton, Orrel, Upholland or Rainford is at 1747 from Manchester Victoria. The final service to these stations from Liverpool, with a change at Kirkby, is the 1835 from Liverpool Central.

The last train from York to Hull is at 2229. The last train from Leeds to Hull is at 2220. The last train from Hull to Driffield and Bridlington is at 2148. The last train from Hull to Cottingham and Beverley is at 2300. The last train from Leeds to Knaresborough is at 2129. The last train from Harrogate to York is at 2105. The last train from Newcastle to Cramlington and Morpeth is at 2200. The last train from Carlisle to Haltwhistle, Hexham and Newcastle is at 2125.

In the case of Northern, many of these are to be improved. Some are not to be improved at all, or are only moved a few minutes later.

I don't know where you got the idea that it isn't very good from. It could be better, and in my view it should, but in practice it is already the best there is.

None of these examples are services to small or lightly used stations, or in rural areas. These are connections within and between the UK's largest cities, and the large towns that surround them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Er, Merseyrail frequency halves after about 7pm.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, there's a standard pattern 2tph evening service. Rather than going from 4tph during the day to an average of less than 1 which is more typical.

Metrolink is the same, it goes from 10tph on most routes in the daytime to 5, until the last tram. Rather than your typical local rail service where there are gaps of 30, 60 + minutes.

It's not exclusive to the North either.

The final services from Birmingham to Leicester are 2052 and 2222. That's it. That's a commuter service. Where is their train at 1am?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't call that a commuter service, its more of a medium distance regional express.

 

[Starmill]

Is that a suitable timetable for a regional express service? And I suspect that the good people of Nuneaton are probably not very interested in your views as a reason for not providing them with a decent service to the large city on their doorstep. The same goes for the people of Wigston and Narborough who might like to leave Leicester later than 2219. I do not see how that is different from people from Ormskirk coming home from Liverpool city centre.


Water Orton station is admittedly very poorly sited, but anyone who does use it cannot come back from Birmingham after 1952.

 

[30907]

It would be brilliant to adopt the mainland Europe culture of heavily subsidised (and therefore widely used) local public transport , but I fear it is unlikely to happen.

Meanwhile, even London struggles to achieve the OP's aspiration, and I am old enough to remember when there were barely half a dozen SR (Region not Railway!) trains off London termini after midnight, other than the paper trains which were no use to suburbanites.

 

[urbophile]

Midnight or later as the last departures would make life easier for those attending concerts and the like. But for those who like to go 'clubbing' (in the leisure rather than GBH sense) they will probably have to carry on getting taxis home. Or there are a few all-night bus routes in Liverpool.

For those of us who live in Liverpool and are not taken in by lurid tabloid headlines, Merseyrail trains are generally quiet in the evenings and up to the last train. After all, those who go out drinking to get p****ed and might be inclined to over-friendliness (!) are likely to stay out until well after the last train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Used to be a lot busier in the days pubs closed at 11, but that's not been the case for a while.

 

[Gareth]

Cuz Scousers, innit?

I'm assuming it's purely down to cost. Merseyrail stations are fully staffed from first train to last, on top of the drivers & guards, the electricity bill etc. It still should be a bit later on a Friday & Saturday at least but the case would have to be made that it's a worthwhile venture, given it would almost certainly cost more than it would make in fares.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They do operate night services to Southport and Hooton on Saturdays on the run up to Christmas

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Midnight or later as the last departures would make life easier for those attending concerts and the like. But for those who like to go 'clubbing' (in the leisure rather than GBH sense) they will probably have to carry on getting taxis home. Or there are a few all-night bus routes in Liverpool.

For those of us who live in Liverpool and are not taken in by lurid tabloid headlines, Merseyrail trains are generally quiet in the evenings and up to the last train. After all, those who go out drinking to get p****ed and might be inclined to over-friendliness (!) are likely to stay out until well after the last train.

often if you are going clubbing at soem fo the more prestigiuous venues it;s the counter flow morning communter services you want wit hthe risk of 4 and 5 am finishes

 

[route101]

Same in Glasgow , last train to East Kilbride is 2317 or 0017 on a Friday night , should really be a 2347 .

 

[LowLevel]

We have a lot of early finishes in the Midlands as a legacy of BR cutbacks. I'm not sorry - the trains from around 1800 on a Friday and Saturday often resemble a public toilet crossed with a fast food restaurant and a bar. There was a 20 plus person riot then developing into fighting the police on the platforms at Grantham off the 2051 Nottingham to Boston a couple of Saturdays ago with other trains regularly clocking up staff and passenger assaults, even the ones that have police boarding controls often end up with fights on the platform at Nottingham.

Unless they give us a decent level of police back up able to respond quickly to problems then they can forget running any more frequent trains in the evening - the existing ones are enough fun for all the family.

 

[Crossover]

Midnight is luxury - the last local from Huddersfield to Leeds via Dewsbury is at a paltry 2228 (aside from a Saturday ECS in the 233x period which even reverses at Leeds...don't get me started!) with a similar story across other parts of WYPTE

 

[Camden]

That's the sticks though.

 

[Crossover]

That's the sticks though.

Hardly!

 

[sd0733]

The Crewe-Stoke route must be one of the earliest finishes around with a last service Mon-Sat at 20:45, on a Sunday you can make a proper night of it and stop out until the 21:16!!

 

[LowLevel]

The Crewe-Stoke route must be one of the earliest finishes around with a last service Mon-Sat at 20:45, on a Sunday you can make a proper night of it and stop out until the 21:16!!

That's down to the signalbox opening hours - there's only 2 shifts and the morning commuter traffic is much more lucrative than off peak evening leisure traffic.