Merseyrail Train Guards vacancies.

[2e0deq]

I recently applied for a Train Guard vacancy at Merseyrail closing date 27/02/15.

I have several questions if someone could please help.

1. How long after closing date could a successful external applicant expect to wait to hear from Merseyrail?

or

2. Have all successful external applicants been notified already?

3. The job description highlighted Customer service skills and difficult situation handling, I have covered all these and have an NVQ 2 in Customer Service, I have been unemployed for several years but constantly looking for work.

Do Merseyrail consider taking on unemployed new recruits?

Thanks in advance for any help, Derek.

 

[8J]

I've heard it may be a while from some people in the know due to the sheer volume of applications.

It may be difficult to get through the initial sift, but the interview is scored in how you come across and use your experience to answer questions.

 

[2e0deq]

Hi thanks for the reply, I know it very hard to get through, really hoping though, at least I still got a chance of hearing, only my NVQ 2 in Customer Service and other experience might help me, worked in difficult jobs, Job Centre and so on.

 

[First class]

If busier, faster and longer Northern Rail electric services in Merseyside are going DOO (Driver Only Operation), in the next few years, as well as further Scotrail services, you can bet with almost certainty, that the role of the Merseyrail "guard" has a very short life expectancy compared to other TOCs!

Reminds me of London Overground, for a while they also recruited guards etc, and then, a year or two in, they dispense with the lot of them!

Essentially, any new stock (or anything cascaded from London/Scotland) = new job time. Take care when making a career choice here!

I don't know when Merseyrail will get new trains, but there's only so much life left in the current 1970's fleet.

If you're currently unemployed then fair enough, but don't expect a career as a guard unless you are able to find a promotion to driver/management etc.

Take care!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Getting off topic, I wonder whether some (all?) of the surplus Class 319 fleet could go to Merseyrail and replace the 507/508 fleet?

 

[2e0deq]

Hi thanks for the info, I will be applying for all vacancies that come up including train presentation team, if they do come up, something to think about of course, I am nearly 49 so a few years in the role would be good for me but prefer to find something to end my days doing.

 

[Monty]

The James Street tunnel will practically rule out a stock cascade from elsewhere. The replacements for the 507/508s will be a bespoke design specified by Merseytravel, not much has been said of long term future of the guard on Mersey Rail but I have yet to hear of any proposals for DOO.

 

[martynbristow]

If busier, faster and longer Northern Rail electric services in Merseyside are going DOO (Driver Only Operation), in the next few years, as well as further Scotrail services, you can bet with almost certainty, that the role of the Merseyrail "guard" has a very short life expectancy compared to other TOCs!

Reminds me of London Overground, for a while they also recruited guards etc, and then, a year or two in, they dispense with the lot of them!

Essentially, any new stock (or anything cascaded from London/Scotland) = new job time. Take care when making a career choice here!

I don't know when Merseyrail will get new trains, but there's only so much life left in the current 1970's fleet.

If you're currently unemployed then fair enough, but don't expect a career as a guard unless you are able to find a promotion to driver/management etc.

Take care!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Getting off topic, I wonder whether some (all?) of the surplus Class 319 fleet could go to Merseyrail and replace the 507/508 fleet?

The 319 issue was discussed elsewhere and the profile is incompatible with the tunnels.

New stock is a far way off because they haven't started the tender process yet.
Some other projects jumped the queue.
Merseyrail is unlikely to go DOO for a good while, and if they do will need more drivers anyway.
A number of stations are unstaffed and don't have the infrastructure to permit DOO yet, so the guard has to do it.
I think they have a maximum of 10 years left

BTW - this was NOT a job advert, and there will be no jobs yet.
It stated talent pool which is promoting vacancies.
You may get lucky but otherwise you may get left on a long waiting list.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The James Street tunnel will practically rule out a stock cascade from elsewhere. The replacements for the 507/508s will be a bespoke design specified by Merseytravel, not much has been said of long term future of the guard on Mersey Rail but I have yet to hear of any proposals for DOO.

Some of the other new built stock is comparable such as the S Stock.

 

[First class]

The James Street tunnel will practically rule out a stock cascade from elsewhere. The replacements for the 507/508s will be a bespoke design specified by Merseytravel, not much has been said of long term future of the guard on Mersey Rail but I have yet to hear of any proposals for DOO.

James Street poses no real issues, normal stock can go down there, (minus a pantograph obviously).

Emergency exit end doors are required I believe, so 319s comply there.

It's a fallacy if anyone thinks Merseytravel will obtain bespoke rolling stock, they don't have the means to pay, the Merseyrail franchise is very heavily subsidised as it is, the leasing and design costs of new stock would make the operation impossible financially. They'll have to find a cheaper off the shelf solution or find existing rolling stock from somewhere else.

DOO is a very real possibility, and in view of Merseytravel's dire financial situation, to afford new or any other stock, it will surely be a case of either fare increases of somewhere around 50% or more, (not practical, due to bus competition), or finding "efficiencies" elsewhere, (staff cuts).

Still a few years away, but certainly will be implemented within the next 5-10 years.

 

[Gareth]

I'm pretty sure that the current train of thought (no pun intended) is that bespoke stock would be more expensive in upfront costs but economical over its working lifetime, assuming less performance and maintenance issues. I would expect any new stock to have level boarding. DOO is likely in the medium term, I think.

 

[londonboi]

James Street poses no real issues, normal stock can go down there, (minus a pantograph obviously).

Emergency exit end doors are required I believe, so 319s comply there.

It's a fallacy if anyone thinks Merseytravel will obtain bespoke rolling stock, they don't have the means to pay, the Merseyrail franchise is very heavily subsidised as it is, the leasing and design costs of new stock would make the operation impossible financially. They'll have to find a cheaper off the shelf solution or find existing rolling stock from somewhere else.

DOO is a very real possibility, and in view of Merseytravel's dire financial situation, to afford new or any other stock, it will surely be a case of either fare increases of somewhere around 50% or more, (not practical, due to bus competition), or finding "efficiencies" elsewhere, (staff cuts).

Still a few years away, but certainly will be implemented within the next 5-10 years.

Wouldn't the Lul D78 stock be good for merseyrail some of the bends they go round in the tunnels z1 are pretty curved plus they use 4th rail so converting to 3rd be allot easier than converting to a dmu
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And they used to have guards on the d78 so the set up is more less there ready to run

 

[martynbristow]

Wouldn't the Lul D78 stock be good for merseyrail some of the bends they go round in the tunnels z1 are pretty curved plus they use 4th rail so converting to 3rd be allot easier than converting to a dmu
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And they used to have guards on the d78 so the set up is more less there ready to run

You would need to completely redo something because the old LU stock is 650v and Merseyrail is currently 750v. I'm not sure what would need to be changed where.
Merseyrail has VERY steep inclines: Green Lane, stock transfer, Merseytunnels and Moorfields.
The 503s were killed off doing the drug out of the link the story goes, so whatever stock would need to be able to cope. And replacing old stuff with cast offs won't go down well financially or with the public.

The 319's are longer slightly which caused some problems. The S-stock seems to be slightly smaller so i assume this wouldn't damage the loop as much.
They cope well on the Metropolitan line which is the nearest your going to get.
S-stock is the more compatible stock you will find and the electrostar/Desiro are designed for longer trips I believe.
The only other option is the London Overground capitalstars.
Supporting DOO but it would take a long time to deploy fully

 

[londonboi]

D stocks go up VERY steep hills on the district ones off top my head are:
Gunnersbry to T/Green EB
Whitechappel both EB and WB
bromley by bow to bow road EB
Fulham Broadway to West Brompton EB
Fulham broadway to Parsons Green WB

 

[2e0deq]

Thanks for all the info and thoughts on the situation, I will update if I hear anything about my application, regards, Derek

 

[londonboi]

good luck 2E0deq railway HR takes time keep positive mate

 

[2e0deq]

Thank you londonboi198o5, I appreciate your supportive comment,

 

[cactustwirly]

James Street poses no real issues, normal stock can go down there, (minus a pantograph obviously).

Emergency exit end doors are required I believe, so 319s comply there.

It's a fallacy if anyone thinks Merseytravel will obtain bespoke rolling stock, they don't have the means to pay, the Merseyrail franchise is very heavily subsidised as it is, the leasing and design costs of new stock would make the operation impossible financially. They'll have to find a cheaper off the shelf solution or find existing rolling stock from somewhere else.

DOO is a very real possibility, and in view of Merseytravel's dire financial situation, to afford new or any other stock, it will surely be a case of either fare increases of somewhere around 50% or more, (not practical, due to bus competition), or finding "efficiencies" elsewhere, (staff cuts).

Still a few years away, but certainly will be implemented within the next 5-10 years.

Instead of getting new trains, why don't they heavily refurbish the class 507/8s, by adding new traction motors, door buttons, lighting, flooring etc.

 

[londonboi]

You would need to completely redo something because the old LU stock is 650v and Merseyrail is currently 750v. I'm not sure what would need to be changed where.
Merseyrail has VERY steep inclines: Green Lane, stock transfer, Merseytunnels and Moorfields.
The 503s were killed off doing the drug out of the link the story goes, so whatever stock would need to be able to cope. And replacing old stuff with cast offs won't go down well financially or with the public.

The 319's are longer slightly which caused some problems. The S-stock seems to be slightly smaller so i assume this wouldn't damage the loop as much.
They cope well on the Metropolitan line which is the nearest your going to get.
S-stock is the more compatible stock you will find and the electrostar/Desiro are designed for longer trips I believe.
The only other option is the London Overground capitalstars.
Supporting DOO but it would take a long time to deploy fully

very good point you make about the lorol 378's would look smart on the merseyrail

 

[First class]

Instead of getting new trains, why don't they heavily refurbish the class 507/8s, by adding new traction motors, door buttons, lighting, flooring etc.

Because there comes a point when it's cheaper to just get new trains than continually patch up old ones!

I believe the fleet suffers from corrosion too.

 

[the sniper]

If you're currently unemployed then fair enough, but don't expect a career as a guard unless you are able to find a promotion to driver/management etc.

You're ignoring the likely possibility that existing Guards who didn't want to take redundancy would be offered alternative work, which would probably be the same job with the same pay as they're getting now but without being safety critical or doing the doors, and having to be in the train all the time..

 

[380gk]

What they did at scotrail was make guards ticket examiners and over time their competancies lapsed for guard duties.
During the interim switchover to DOO on some routes, you'd have one train having a guard doing revenue only duties and the next train a TE doing the same.
Guards kept their higher pay grade and perks but moved down to TE jobs.
The idea of DO was that if a guard was unavailable, the train could still run. Under current franchise obligations scotrail have to have a visible TE patrolling all of their DO services. And whilst trains don't get cancelled without having one, the company gets heavily fined if they're not on board during random inspections by Transport Scotland.
Maybe the same will happen for mersyrail should DO occur.

 

[First class]

You're ignoring the likely possibility that existing Guards who didn't want to take redundancy would be offered alternative work, which would probably be the same job with the same pay as they're getting now but without being safety critical or doing the doors, and having to be in the train all the time..

What job could they do? They have no ticket knowledge, no ticketing or retail equipment, and aren't allowed to leave the rear cab in tunnelled sections...

Station staff deal with the customers in wheelchairs by the looks of things.

If they're in the train all the time, what do you suggest they actually do that's worth £25,000 a year?

Customer Service duties obviously, but what exactly can they do to enhance the service? They have limited knowledge of the wider national rail network, have no real access to decent journey planning equipment aside from their own smartphones if they have one. Bearing in mind almost all stations are staffed first to last train, all stations have ticketing facilities and the trains are equipped with a decent PIS. Other than being an extra presence on board, what would you have them do?

Bearing in mind Penalty Fares are in operation with roaming RPI checks anyway, and most trains see a couple of cleaners during the journey.

I'm against DOO entirely, but these "guards" do nothing worthwhile AT PRESENT. Hopefully that can change.

London Overground, Scotrail, FGW, Govia, Northern, Southern , AGA are all running (or will run) DOO trains, Merseyrail cannot retain guards in the long haul, without savings being made elsewhere.

Good luck to them, they seem like a good bunch when they venture out, but I'd caution anyone who thinks the grade is infallible to major change.

 

[martynbristow]

What job could they do? They have no ticket knowledge, no ticketing or retail equipment, and aren't allowed to leave the rear cab in tunnelled sections...

Station staff deal with the customers in wheelchairs by the looks of things.

If they're in the train all the time, what do you suggest they actually do that's worth £25,000 a year?

Customer Service duties obviously, but what exactly can they do to enhance the service? They have limited knowledge of the wider national rail network, have no real access to decent journey planning equipment aside from their own smartphones if they have one. Bearing in mind almost all stations are staffed first to last train, all stations have ticketing facilities and the trains are equipped with a decent PIS. Other than being an extra presence on board, what would you have them do?

Bearing in mind Penalty Fares are in operation with roaming RPI checks anyway, and most trains see a couple of cleaners during the journey.

I'm against DOO entirely, but these "guards" do nothing worthwhile AT PRESENT. Hopefully that can change.

London Overground, Scotrail, FGW, Govia, Northern, Southern , AGA are all running (or will run) DOO trains, Merseyrail cannot retain guards in the long haul, without savings being made elsewhere.

Good luck to them, they seem like a good bunch when they venture out, but I'd caution anyone who thinks the grade is infallible to major change.

Wirral Line guards and maybe some Northern line assist boarding at specific stations. Hooton I've seen this done at. Its not practice otherwise as they have an M to Go.
Some guards do check tickets, the majority of which are local tickets.
Arriva Merseyside used to check tickets many moons ago but could only issue in ticket pads.
But yes they don't really do much these days.
...

Even when something breaks it ends up being the driver :P (in my experience)

 

[danbarnstall]

I did a little digging on the DOO issue as I to have applied for this job. Although the role of the guard might change when new rolling stock is bought I don't believe it will automatically mean job losses.

Funding for guards is guaranteed for the remainder of the franchise (2028) and seperate from other operational costs (Ie new stock). There is also a legal agreement with Merseytravel that all trains must have 2 members of staff on (At present a driver and a guard). I have had this confirmed by my local councillor, he also pointed out that LCC have made a hardline stance recently against TPE & Northern proposed shift to DOO. He did confirm that Merseyrail included DOO as a condition for drivers pay increases a few years ago but this was met with great hostility from both LCC and Merseytravel, since then the company have not acted or brought up the issue again.

As we know Merseyrail is a self contained network, it is a little different to most others. The franchise is awarded by the Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive rather than the Department for Transport which issues all other rail franchises in England and Wales. Unlike other councils LCC does have a direct say in running matters. Unless the council make a full 180 degree turn along with Merseytravel to allow franchise operators to amend the initial terms, removing guards would actually breach conditions of contract. That would then open up a whole new can of worms.

For anyone applying at the very worst you've got 5 years worth of employment but based on what I've heard a job of some sort is pretty secure for the medium term. Hope to see you all at selection day but I've heard there is over 2500 applicants so the sift is going to be hard to get through!

 

[2e0deq]

Hi, I seem to have posted this in an incorrect forum and it has been moved, apologies, with regards to Train Guards and future careers, I imagine a lot of passengers travelling alone and at night would appreciate the Guards to be on trains, only a thought.

 

[tomtom]

Anyone know if there is any movement on these jobs?

 

[martynbristow]

I did a little digging on the DOO issue as I to have applied for this job. Although the role of the guard might change when new rolling stock is bought I don't believe it will automatically mean job losses.

Funding for guards is guaranteed for the remainder of the franchise (2028) and seperate from other operational costs (Ie new stock). There is also a legal agreement with Merseytravel that all trains must have 2 members of staff on (At present a driver and a guard). I have had this confirmed by my local councillor, he also pointed out that LCC have made a hardline stance recently against TPE & Northern proposed shift to DOO. He did confirm that Merseyrail included DOO as a condition for drivers pay increases a few years ago but this was met with great hostility from both LCC and Merseytravel, since then the company have not acted or brought up the issue again.

As we know Merseyrail is a self contained network, it is a little different to most others. The franchise is awarded by the Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive rather than the Department for Transport which issues all other rail franchises in England and Wales. Unlike other councils LCC does have a direct say in running matters. Unless the council make a full 180 degree turn along with Merseytravel to allow franchise operators to amend the initial terms, removing guards would actually breach conditions of contract. That would then open up a whole new can of worms.

For anyone applying at the very worst you've got 5 years worth of employment but based on what I've heard a job of some sort is pretty secure for the medium term. Hope to see you all at selection day but I've heard there is over 2500 applicants so the sift is going to be hard to get through!

read who is on the Merseytravel board ... RMT affiliation pops up a fair bit. If there's a political shift then things might change.

If there's 2500 applicants give them a break it will take ages :/

 

[JBM 37404]

read who is on the Merseytravel board ... RMT affiliation pops up a fair bit. If there's a political shift then things might change.

If there's 2500 applicants give them a break it will take ages :/

This is why I looked further South for Rail industry employment (and was successful) jobs with decent pay, pension and benefits are still rare on Merseyside hence why the huge amount of applications have been made I suspect.

 

[martynbristow]

This is why I looked further South for Rail industry employment (and was successful) jobs with decent pay, pension and benefits are still rare on Merseyside hence why the huge amount of applications have been made I suspect.

There's plenty of good jobs around with good pay. The problem is you have to have an in demand skill-set.
The world has changed, luckily for some the railway hasn't :P

 

[JBM 37404]

There's plenty of good jobs around with good pay. The problem is you have to have an in demand skill-set.
The world has changed, luckily for some the railway hasn't :P

Customer service based mainly in this area, the rise in zero hours culture and payroll outsourcing. I have seen jobs with ok pay but terrible T and Cs in the banking sector also. Everytime Jaguar advertise they too are inundated. I spent 4 years in the early 00s in a contact centre environment. The city (Liverpool) was full of them at the time with people moving from one to the other for reasons various despite the pay and conditions being the same.

 

[danbarnstall]

read who is on the Merseytravel board ... RMT affiliation pops up a fair bit. If there's a political shift then things might change.

If there's 2500 applicants give them a break it will take ages :/

The recent council motion was passed with cross party support.