waveyswirley
Member
I had the exact same thought when I was sat in the exact spot this photo was taken from! I nearly took a picture myself too
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Merseyrail Tap & Go
- Thread starter Fawkes Cat
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Fawkes Cat
Established Member
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In fairness, most if not all of the signs can be individually justified, and some of them are safety/security related. And all credit for the TfW signage and card reader being on the side for the Wrexham line - and both TfW and Merseyrail signs explaining that you need to use the right card reader for your journey.
But yes, it does look a mess.
I was there today. I agree with you. However connections between the two trains are often tight and the signs are only visible if you are at the Liverpool end of the trains. I suspect most passengers are regulars and know how things work, but there were no on board announcements about what to do on the incoming TfW service.
The Borderlands line usually relies on automated announcements but I always find the on board staff very approachable and visible and they should be able to address any queries.
The Borderlands service was late so the staff were concentrating on turning that service around quickly rather than helping anyone who wasn't sure about how to tap out or in.
The automated announcements were out of sync with where the train was (a station ahead).
The signage could and should be improved. Staff on the Borderlands service were obviously aware of the misaligned announcements and did nothing to mitigate that.
or you could just ask the staff during your journey?
Northerngirl
Member
Is there any hints of a functional zone system yet, I still have yet to use tap other than very simple peak time to and from the same station, as i have zero trust in a system that does not publish its fairs, or is the miserable mess just going to continue
It's the same zone system that has always existed; off-peak caps at the day saver, anytime at the weekly merseyrail only railpass
Apart from Chester (for nonMetro) and missing railcards, are there any other issues?
Other than onboard staff don’t have the ability to check I’ve not had any issues with regards to cost. Never been more than £6.40 off peak, including making multiple journeys. Only issue for me now is needing to get Chester included as it a place I visit often. Feels a pain now having to get a ticket.
I'm not sure how someone is supposed to ask staff during a journey about a problem they are not yet aware of. In any case this isn't a staffing issue, it's about user experience of signage.
Northerngirl
Member
The utterly non existent information on peak fares
They're the same as paper anytime singles/returns
Formby EMU Fan
Member
I've found a copy of the zone map on the merseyrail website (in a tenuous link about tickets from Skelmersdale)
The map has been in use (Initially for Saveaway and Zone Tickets) since at least the 1980's (Although Zone G was added later)
https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/daily-travel/skelmersdale-train-link/
Merseyrail credit source as visitlancashire.com
I'm sure better maps exist that show the Zone E arrangement between Liverpool and Birkenhead.
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Is Zone E still a thing?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The cross river zone? No.
Kilopylae
Member
I assume you would need to be hypermobile to get the face of a watch to sit flat against a card reader?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Human wrists normally have about 160-180 degrees of rotation so this is perfectly easy to do, particularly as proximity readers don't require a perfect touch. If yours don't, either you've got some sort of injury (fair enough) or it might be worth talking to a doctor or physio about what can be done to improve your movement.
Plenty of people use Apple or Android watches to pay for TfL travel and at all manner of contactless payment terminals. This is not hypothetical, it's one of those many things that people say is infeasible on here but is actually in day to day use and has been for some years now.
Formby EMU Fan
Member
Wow, I did not know that! I'm guessing it was quietly removed quite a while ago, and it was only the regular commuters that crossed the river with a travel pass were affected. (I was not one of them back then, so I didn't know)
TfW North Wales PAYG went live at Chester today. For those tapping with a bank card / phone / etc at the new gates there and at another Tap & Go station* at this point in time, will the Chester tap be attributed to Merseyrail (appropriate Tap & Go fare) or to TfW (incomplete journey charges on both Tap & Go and North Wales PAYG)?
[* Not including the pink TfW validator at Bidston]
Fawkes Cat
Established Member
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I would speculate that if one taps at one end of the journey on a pink (TfW) reader and at the other on a yellow (Merseyrail) reader (and with nothing in between) you would surely get two incomplete journey charges - one from each system.
But since as per your other post Chester has both pink TfW and yellow Merseyrail readers, surely the process will be exactly the same as at Bidston which also has pink and yellow readers? I'm not saying that this is a satisfactory position, just that it will be the same position.
Yes. I don't think the two systems talk to one another, but this is (now relatively rapid) work in progess and better than waiting for the all singing all dancing system that never happens.
I agree, though my query was about a journey involving a standalone Merseyrail reader at one end and Chester's gates at the other. Perhaps I confused you by including the picture (not mine) of Chester's standalone readers within the quoted post.
It's also just occurred to me that it's now possible to tap at both ends of a Chester-Bidston journey (gates at the former, pink reader at the latter; no incomplete journey) and still break the rules, unintentionally or otherwise, if you travel via Hamilton Square. (Unless disruption-related arrangements are in place)
Is anyone aware if there are plans to increase the number of gates at Lime Street Low Level, it currently only has 2 for each direction and 1 bidirectional accessible gate, but they're set up such that passengers alighting have to cross passengers boarding when they get to the top of the escalator as the gates are the opposite way round to the escalator?
Asked Merseyrail customer services about their standalone readers at Chester and they say they're (still) working with TfW to enable cEMV Tap & Go functionality on them.
Reading between the lines they're probably waiting until their respective cEMV schemes become interoperable at the gateline first - a work in progress according to a TfW manager:
With that in mind it's no surprise that Merseyrail's publicity on Tap & Go at Chester hasn't changed this week.
As for the in/out configuration they can change it at will, surely?
Reading between the lines they're probably waiting until their respective cEMV schemes become interoperable at the gateline first - a work in progress according to a TfW manager:
With that in mind it's no surprise that Merseyrail's publicity on Tap & Go at Chester hasn't changed this week.
Those gates were installed recently so if Merseyrail planned to realign the gateline they'd have already done it.
As for the in/out configuration they can change it at will, surely?
Formby EMU Fan
Member
Yesterday, I travelled to Chester on Merseyrail using the Metrocard Tap & Go system. Having read about the Issues at Chester, I was sceptical whether this would work, and hearing multiple automated announcements on route about Tap & Go using a Bank Card not being accepted at Chester only added to my anxiety. However, I was re-assured as the train approached Chester and a different automated announcement was played saying "only Tap & Go using a Metrocard can be used at Chester." (A Bank Card cannot!). I was relieved when my Metrocard opened the Barrier for me.
Later on I returned to Chester having travelled on a TFW service (using their Tap & Go System - Jurys still out on that), and used the Merseyrail validator on Platform 7A to start my return Journey to Liverpool.
To conclude, I can confirm that the Barriers at Chester Accept the Metrocard to Start/Terminate a Merseyrail Journey, and a Bank Card can Start/Terminate a TFW Journey. The Platform Validators are used when you don't need to exit the station when Transferring between TFW and Merseyrail services.
Hope this has cleared up any confusion with regard to Chester.
Later on I returned to Chester having travelled on a TFW service (using their Tap & Go System - Jurys still out on that), and used the Merseyrail validator on Platform 7A to start my return Journey to Liverpool.
To conclude, I can confirm that the Barriers at Chester Accept the Metrocard to Start/Terminate a Merseyrail Journey, and a Bank Card can Start/Terminate a TFW Journey. The Platform Validators are used when you don't need to exit the station when Transferring between TFW and Merseyrail services.
Hope this has cleared up any confusion with regard to Chester.
I think you may have inadvertently added to the confusion for non regular rail users…!
Formby EMU Fan
Member
I guess it can be confusing if you are not aware of the current situation at Chester.
I am not a regular user in this location but I do use the Merseyrail Metrocard version of Tap & Go (which lead to the start of this thread when it was being trialled).
The confusion starts with repeated automated announcements on the Train telling you you can use a Bankcard to Tap & Go at every station on Merseyrail except Chester, then on the approach to Chester another announcement is played implying that you can use a Metrocard to exit at the Barrier, but as you get off the train you are presented with a Merseyrail Validator (which you need to ignore if you are exiting the station as you tap out at the Barrier instead, I don't know what happens if you do both). If you are not exiting the station platforms, then you can use the Validators to End one Journey on Merseyrail and Start your Journey on TFW (or vice versa).
As Chester is operated by TFW, their barriers would need to tell the difference between a Merseyrail Journey and a TFW Journey as you tap your Bank card which currently they can not do, so currently they assume a TFW Journey for the purpose of the installation across their Network.
I'm sorry for causing any confusion, I am simply reporting my findings based on my Journey changing trains at this station. I hope I have not confused you any more!
BTW, I only exited through the barrier as I chose to use the facilities and the shop, neither of which were on the platform, and there was a 25 minute wait between trains. I could have used the validators instead, but I would have been confined to the platforms. And I can now confirm both T&G systems worked and I have been charged the correct amount with no missed tappings.
I am not a regular user in this location but I do use the Merseyrail Metrocard version of Tap & Go (which lead to the start of this thread when it was being trialled).
The confusion starts with repeated automated announcements on the Train telling you you can use a Bankcard to Tap & Go at every station on Merseyrail except Chester, then on the approach to Chester another announcement is played implying that you can use a Metrocard to exit at the Barrier, but as you get off the train you are presented with a Merseyrail Validator (which you need to ignore if you are exiting the station as you tap out at the Barrier instead, I don't know what happens if you do both). If you are not exiting the station platforms, then you can use the Validators to End one Journey on Merseyrail and Start your Journey on TFW (or vice versa).
As Chester is operated by TFW, their barriers would need to tell the difference between a Merseyrail Journey and a TFW Journey as you tap your Bank card which currently they can not do, so currently they assume a TFW Journey for the purpose of the installation across their Network.
I'm sorry for causing any confusion, I am simply reporting my findings based on my Journey changing trains at this station. I hope I have not confused you any more!
BTW, I only exited through the barrier as I chose to use the facilities and the shop, neither of which were on the platform, and there was a 25 minute wait between trains. I could have used the validators instead, but I would have been confined to the platforms. And I can now confirm both T&G systems worked and I have been charged the correct amount with no missed tappings.