Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[D821]

Merseyrail are hoping to get the units introduced late 2022 to 2023, apparently. In their latest accounts, Merseyrail says: “Discussions with the RMT with regards to the second person on the train are progressing… Merseyrail will continue its commitment to reaching a resolution with the RMT through negotiated discussions.”:

Merseyrail offers update on new £500m trains - Liverpool Business News

Train operator Merseyrail has offered an update on when the new £500m train fleet will come into service on the Liverpool city region network

lbndaily.co.uk

 

[L401CJF]

Merseyrail are hoping to get the units introduced during 2023, apparently. In their latest accounts, Merseyrail says: “Discussions with the RMT with regards to the second person on the train are progressing… Merseyrail will continue its commitment to reaching a resolution with the RMT through negotiated discussions.”:

Merseyrail offers update on new £500m trains - Liverpool Business News

Train operator Merseyrail has offered an update on when the new £500m train fleet will come into service on the Liverpool city region network

lbndaily.co.uk

Should assume this as hearsay, but- A friend of mine who works for Merseyrail was chatting to a stadler technician the other day, who says looking like 2023 for introduction. Apparently 508140/143 are the next to be chopped, but depending on the situation may be sent for corrosion assessment later in the year and overhauled if still required. Also apparently regrets over scrapping 110 and 134!

 

[D821]

I misquoted the article; it does say late 2022 to 2023, so I think we can all guess where this will land...

 

[Sam 76]

Take it as you will as it is the Echo but suggestions a date for entering service could be chosen “behind closed doors” this Friday. Could be hopeful they are coming relatively soon

 

[zuriblue]

Some still have guards for sure, I went on some Tilo (sbb& trenord) services on Tuesday and they had a guard watching the doors. Not sure whether they did it themselves or whether they communicated with the driver to close them.

SBB TiLos are Flirts which don't have a UIC key switch so the guard instructs the driver to close the doors. Trenord stock tend to have guards and, I think, have UIC key switches.

Some Basel - Zürich services on IR36 (Frick line) use RABe511 (Stadler KISS) which don't have UIC keyswitches but still have conductors but they're DCO.

Getting back on topic...

 

[Skie]

Take it as you will as it is the Echo but suggestions a date for entering service could be chosen “behind closed doors” this Friday. Could be hopeful they are coming relatively soon

The interesting bit is Rotherham says the drivers are now undergoing training.

Also the trains need to be in use before Headbolt lane opens (or same day) so feel free to set that as the date

 

[jamesst]

The interesting bit is Rotherham says the drivers are now undergoing training.

Also the trains need to be in use before Headbolt lane opens (or same day) so feel free to set that as the date

The even more interesting bit is the drivers are definitely NOT undergoing any training.

 

[Skie]

The even more interesting bit is the drivers are definitely NOT undergoing any training.

 

[wobman]

The even more interesting bit is the drivers are definitely NOT undergoing any training.

There's been lots of talks with the rmt regarding the 777s, I wonder how involved aslef have been ??

 

[507020]

The interesting bit is Rotherham says the drivers are now undergoing training.

Also the trains need to be in use before Headbolt lane opens (or same day) so feel free to set that as the date

That’s not a problem. They can just delay the station opening until the trains are ready. Then there’ll just be a mile gap between Northern services terminating at Headbolt Lane and the Merseyrail services terminating at Kirkby, with the new station served only by an hourly Sprinter. I wonder if they’ll run a bus

 

[Bertie the bus]

This saga is all getting very boring. What was the point of Merseyrail’s show and tell events at Birkenhead and Southport last year if they are nowhere near ready to enter service? Were they just trying to resurrect Bullseye? Look at what you could have been travelling on.

 

[507020]

This saga is all getting very boring. What was the point of Merseyrail’s show and tell events at Birkenhead and Southport last year if they are nowhere near ready to enter service? Were they just trying to resurrect Bullseye? Look at what you could have been travelling on.

Their purpose was simply that because the trains are publicly owned, but not in service, to demonstrate to the otherwise oblivious owners, the public, the illusion that something is actually happening, or rather being done, with their money, regardless of Merseytravel’s intention, or lack of it, to get them into service any time soon.

 

[Ribbleman]

Indeed. In fact, even when negotiations are concluded there will need to be a period of instructor training before crew training proper can start.

 

[507020]

Indeed. In fact, even when negotiations are concluded there will need to be a period of instructor training before crew training proper can start.

Is there not even anyone who can serve as an instructor already, or only people who will be able to train those who are to become instructors and nothing more?

 

[jamesst]

Is there not even anyone who can serve as an instructor already, or only people who will be able to train those who are to become instructors and nothing more?

Leader drivers (who are all currently busy with trainees) will need to be trained on them before training the rest of the drivers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s not a problem. They can just delay the station opening until the trains are ready. Then there’ll just be a mile gap between Northern services terminating at Headbolt Lane and the Merseyrail services terminating at Kirkby, with the new station served only by an hourly Sprinter. I wonder if they’ll run a bus

I think Northern will be quite enthusiastic to bustitute Kirkby-Wigan for as long as they possibly can in order to save a unit.

 

[ExRes]

Is there not even anyone who can serve as an instructor already, or only people who will be able to train those who are to become instructors and nothing more?

I'm sure the answer is somewhere in 2700 posts, but who is providing the drivers that are doing the mileage accumulation?

 

[Pacef8]

Stadler staff i presume.

 

[childwallblues]

I think Northern will be quite enthusiastic to bustitute Kirkby-Wigan for as long as they possibly can in order to save a unit.

Kirkby to Blackburn are booked for 4 car trains!

I think Northern will be quite enthusiastic to bustitute Kirkby-Wigan for as long as they possibly can in orde

 

[Bletchleyite]

Two units then!

(The need for 4-car is no doubt not for west of Wigan! )

 

[jamesst]

I'm sure the answer is somewhere in 2700 posts, but who is providing the drivers that are doing the mileage accumulation?

Driver managers

 

[507020]

I think Northern will be quite enthusiastic to bustitute Kirkby-Wigan for as long as they possibly can in order to save a unit.

It will be Kirkby - Rainford. Kirkby - Headbolt Lane route knowledge will then be allowed to lapse.

Two units then!

(The need for 4-car is no doubt not for west of Wigan! )

One unit is locked out from Kirkby - Wigan and unlocked at Wigan Wallgate. It’s a complete waste of Diesel not to split/join them instead.

 

[47444]

One unit is locked out from Kirkby - Wigan and unlocked at Wigan Wallgate. It’s a complete waste of Diesel not to split/join them instead.

To split, shunt and join at Wallgate would almost certainly cost more staff than the diesel saved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be Kirkby - Rainford. Kirkby - Headbolt Lane route knowledge will then be allowed to lapse.

I'd have thought they'd do the whole way to Wigan as I think that'd allow a diagram to be lopped out of the Atherton circuit. Particularly if it's long term as it looks like it might be.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So LCA have an item on the council agenda this Friday called Bringing Merseyrail New Fleet into Service but its not for public consumption. Read into that what you want but generally its because of commercial and financial reasons and more than likely its not good financially not good news for the authority. My read is the business case was founded on DOO originally so now they have cost of guards and alterations to the 777's to add in alomg with NR's effort to all but double what they said the infrastructure changes would cost.

 

[AMD]

I think Northern will be quite enthusiastic to bustitute Kirkby-Wigan for as long as they possibly can in order to save a unit.

We are wandering slightly off topic, however trains from Wigan will be terminating at Rainford from Monday 18th July.

 

[507020]

So LCA have an item on the council agenda this Friday called Bringing Merseyrail New Fleet into Service but its not for public consumption. Read into that what you want but generally its because of commercial and financial reasons and more than likely its not good financially not good news for the authority. My read is the business case was founded on DOO originally so now they have cost of guards and alterations to the 777's to add in alomg with NR's effort to all but double what they said the infrastructure changes would cost.

I would like to know exactly the reasons why it is restricted. Their excuse is that "By Virtue of Paragraph 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972,
Information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person (including the authority holding that information)" Now the Local Government Act 1972 is one to be extremely sceptical of given the extent to which it damaged municipality in this country, so this is not a satisfactory reason. Highly suspicious. Which particular person is responsible responsible for this?

We are wandering slightly off topic, however trains from Wigan will be terminating at Rainford from Monday 18th July.

So as I suspected. This is not off topic. The trains from Wigan will likely never return to Kirkby after that date, with the Kirkby - Headbolt Lane section taken over by the 777s which are the subject of this thread, unless of course they are re-extended to Liverpool, in which case the whole line will be run by 777s.

 

[BR 45111]

Out between Sandhills and Southport yesterday were 777013 and 777015 , they appeared to be stopping and setting off again from every station from what I saw .

Regards
Marcus

 

[D821]

I would like to know exactly the reasons why it is restricted. Their excuse is that "By Virtue of Paragraph 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972,
Information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person (including the authority holding that information)" Now the Local Government Act 1972 is one to be extremely sceptical of given the extent to which it damaged municipality in this country, so this is not a satisfactory reason. Highly suspicious. Which particular person is responsible responsible for this?

So as I suspected. This is not off topic. The trains from Wigan will likely never return to Kirkby after that date, with the Kirkby - Headbolt Lane section taken over by the 777s which are the subject of this thread, unless of course they are re-extended to Liverpool, in which case the whole line will be run by 777s.

Might be worth putting in an FoI request then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect it may be because it includes confidential commercial matters relating to the contract with Stadler?

If so an FoI would be heavily redacted.