jamesst
Established Member
Theres booked 8 car workings 7 days a week on the Southport line over the summer
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Merseyrail 777 introduction
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MR-507508
Member
Anyone have any further update on the 8 car on the Ormskirk to Hunts Cross line with SDO in place. Does not seem to have ran the past week after having a spell of running?
I've just noticed there was one extra 8-car service from Aintree to Liverpool Central on Friday night (not sure why, and no SDO required as far as I know), but I think there are a good few units out of use at the moment - I've seen a couple of services get unit swapped in the last couple of days. Fingers crossed they'll have them fixed soon. December timetable is showing Southport-Hunts Cross direct so I'm cautiously optimistic, but of course that could change.
8 car was additional capacity for the Drone show taking place at Aintree race course I believe
MrBeanie
Member
Spent a bit of time checking out the diagrams on the 28th:-
Saw 18 units running on the Wirral lines, but didn't have time to go past birkenhead depot
Then saw a further 24 units on the Northern lines, including 4 doubles operating on the Southport services
Saw 18 units running on the Wirral lines, but didn't have time to go past birkenhead depot
Then saw a further 24 units on the Northern lines, including 4 doubles operating on the Southport services
We've seen this many times before though, and Merseyrail always manage to claw defeat from the jaws of victory.
8-car extras running peak-direction only on Hunts Cross today for the Everton home game, but not stopping at Cressington. What a surprise…
In other news there seems to be a test move planned for today shuttling between Chester and Hooton P1 every hour but it hasn’t left Birkenhead North depot an hour after it was planned to. There are also a couple of extra passenger services planned to go between Liverpool and Hooton using the crossovers north of Hooton, but that one is just a 4-car as expected.
In other news there seems to be a test move planned for today shuttling between Chester and Hooton P1 every hour but it hasn’t left Birkenhead North depot an hour after it was planned to. There are also a couple of extra passenger services planned to go between Liverpool and Hooton using the crossovers north of Hooton, but that one is just a 4-car as expected.
MR-507508
Member
I know it did not run, but any idea whether the test moves between Chester and Hooton P1 was planned to be 4 car or 8 car testing on the Wirral?
Not sure about that one, sorry. The first extra services did run (which surprised me considering there was a VST move from New Brighton to XKK 20 minutes before the one that was set to go to Hooton) but it turned out that the 11:51 didn’t use the crossover. Luckily…
This has been going since about 10:30 I think (although for the last couple of hours the vast majority are terminating at Hooton, not Rock Ferry). I was hoping to have a shot at Rock Ferry P4 but I missed it by a couple of minutes, instead I got the crossover into P3.
I was at Hooton between 11:45 and 12:30 and at that time the trains were coming in using alternating P3 and P2, so I got both crossovers without much trouble (arrive into P3, then depart from P2)
There was a moment when a train came in on P2 and was due out next, then another came in on P3 and left before the P2 one despite initially being told it would go first. Not great as it just meant that train went with very few on and ours just got busier because there were so many people travelling to the football. I guess the signallers didn’t want too many services on the crossovers or something. At one point there were trains in every section between Bromborough Rake and Hooton on the down line. I overheard something about there being a SPAD during this debacle as well.
The main thing I noticed today was the disappointing number of staff members about. Obviously with it being a Sunday it was to be expected but it’s still not great to see a few dozen passengers surrounding the ticket office at Rock Ferry for information that the staff member apparently didn’t have (at the advice of the on-train staff) about subsequent travel options and that there were in fact no RRBs from there when trains were terminating short of Hooton.
It is increasingly difficult to remain optimistic about the introduction of 8-car formations and the full reinstatement of the direct Hunts Cross to Southport service. The ongoing disruption—including the restricted 30-minute evening frequency past 8 PM on the Hunts Cross branch—has gone on for far too long. This is now having a tangible economic impact, with falling passenger numbers at St Michaels and local businesses on Lark Lane struggling as a result.
Alan508
Member
It's 30 mins in the evening on most lines, what makes the Hunts Cross branch so special?
When the south Liverpool branch was reopened to Garston, the trains ran to Kirkby!
As I understand it, the 15 min evening service was introduced to provide improved connections to Liverpool South Parkway. Regardless of whether the line is "special", a 50% cut in evening services is not the fabulous future we were promised when the 777s were delivered.
Does anyone know what is happening with 8 cars at Cressington? Twice now they have tried to introduce SDO, both times something has gone wrong after a day or two, then it's months before they try again.
Probably because it’s been every 15 minutes ever since Liverpool South Parkway opened back in 2006.
You’re point is a false equivalence.
What makes Hunts Cross different isn't just about comparing it to Kirkby or Ormskirk it's how the line actually functions. South of Central, Hunts Cross is the sole branch serving the entire southern corridor. When you cut Hunts Cross to 30 minutes, you’re halving the frequency for the entire south side of the city, whereas the northern side splits its frequency across multiple branches.
On top of that, Liverpool South Parkway is a major multi-modal interchange for mainline trains and the airport, and stations like St Michaels feed directly into Lark Lane one of the city's busiest dining and nightlife hubs with a massive concentration of independent businesses.
Cutting evening services by 50% directly hurts that hospitality trade, and St Michaels' passenger numbers dropping by 100,000 in 24/25 proves it (even with the boost from Radio 1's Big Weekend). Other stations along the branch are seeing falling footfall too, so this isn't just an isolated issue.
Having spent two years commuting to college on 8am services, I don't just miss the 6-car formations during peak times I miss the reliable 15-minute evening frequency that made spontaneous trips into town or Lark Lane effortless.
Hunts Cross got 6-car, 15-minute services pre-Class 777s. If the route didnt justify that level of capacity and frequency, Merseyrail wouldnt have run it for almost two decades.
What an awful downgrade.
jamesst
Established Member
I mean you make some excellent points and it 100% is a downgrade, not one of the lines has seen any upgrade since the new stock came.
But let's also be honest, the only reason the Hunts Cross line ever got 6 cars was because the trains came to/from Southport.
The only reason the Hunts Cross line ever got a 15min frequency in the evening was because they were already in place on the Southports and it only cost one extra unit.
MR-507508
Member
Out of interest, how does the bus network compare South of Central compared to the northern side (I must admit, I have no idea regarding the bus network) ?
The buses are more useful for the inner city than for further out. Places with a decent Merseyrail service still get a lot of buses and they're surprisingly well-used despite the 35 to 45-minute travel time if you're going from South Parkway (I can feel a rant coming on about connections to the airport...). When I'm actually in Merseyrail land I live on the Hunts Cross branch and it's basically never faster to get the bus if you're going further than Aigburth/Garston/Allerton.
I think it's a bit unfair to say the Hunts Cross branch is the only rail service for the entire south of the city - sure, the frequencies aren't as good so they're not used as much but there are a good number of people who use Mossley Hill (and to a much lesser extent, West Allerton) to get into town and they serve a large area that simply wouldn't get the train if Merseyrail was their only option. Northern being Northern, of course, the frequency completely tanks on a Sunday (West Allerton gets 11 trains to Lime Street on a Sunday with inconvenient 2-hour gaps), which is such a shame. I'd argue Sundays are more important to get 4tph rather than evenings, since it just completely ruins the turn-up-and-go factor which is what Merseyrail should be about, but evenings still could use the boost. I can't see Hunts Cross-Ormskirk getting evening 4tph in the near future to be honest, so it will probably be a thing for when Southport-Hunts Cross comes back (if it ever does...)
I think it's a bit unfair to say the Hunts Cross branch is the only rail service for the entire south of the city - sure, the frequencies aren't as good so they're not used as much but there are a good number of people who use Mossley Hill (and to a much lesser extent, West Allerton) to get into town and they serve a large area that simply wouldn't get the train if Merseyrail was their only option. Northern being Northern, of course, the frequency completely tanks on a Sunday (West Allerton gets 11 trains to Lime Street on a Sunday with inconvenient 2-hour gaps), which is such a shame. I'd argue Sundays are more important to get 4tph rather than evenings, since it just completely ruins the turn-up-and-go factor which is what Merseyrail should be about, but evenings still could use the boost. I can't see Hunts Cross-Ormskirk getting evening 4tph in the near future to be honest, so it will probably be a thing for when Southport-Hunts Cross comes back (if it ever does...)
Shame they’ve added the hideous barking male voice to their plethora of pointless announcements. Do we really need to be nagged about anti social behaviour in a Sunday afternoon?
Puts me off of using Merseyrail, a classic case of give a monkey a new toy…..
Oh for Julie Berry to be making all announcements and for them to be limited to next stop etc.
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Yes!! He nags about anti social behaviour, tells you to take care when alighting over the non existent step….on and on and on.They've found a way to make them worse?
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I really noticed this when returning from London, where Victoria Line train doors begin to open even before the train has fully halted! Apples and pears I know, but it makes Merseyrail feel like travelling in slow motion. The new ticket gates are similarly lethargic.
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KevinTurvey
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2016
- Messages
- 265
As there are many complaints (not just on here either) about the Hunts X service dropping to half hourly after about 7:30, could they not just run some extra trains for a couple of hours? Probably does not require any more staff than the old Southport timetable did to do an in between part turn back service, instead of running all the way to Ormskirk - perhaps Walton or Aintree - Hunts X
If only it were that simple! Over the last few months there have been a good few events around the Hunts Cross branch stations (mainly concerts near Aigburth and St Michaels) that have warranted extra services. Merseyrail's "solution"? Run one extra diagram for the last two hours of the service day, in outbound direction only from the busy station (so that's 4 extra services). And when I went to do the Aigburth one (since I thought it was a cool thing to get a train that started at my local station) it skipped Cressington even though it was booked to stop since it was an 8-car. When I got back to Aigburth (22:45 at this point, so 3 more northbound services planned) the queues were still snaking far out of the station and I imagine it took at least another 30 minutes to get everyone on a train. Not a great showing for Merseyrail.
Personal complaints aside, I imagine the issue is getting the staff to work evening services. I do like the idea of a shorter service but it would be hard to decide where to terminate it: Walton already gets 4tph with Rice Lane so it's worth going beyond there; Aintree would require ECS moves in between because of where the crossover is (not itself a problem, but could increase delays); and if you go as far as Maghull I sort of think you may as well go all the way.
I think there's an ongoing pay dispute which nearly caused major strikes during Open weekend in July, so it could be a tough ask to get more services running at the moment. Southport is back to 6/8 diagrams as 8-cars, so it looks like most of the damaged units are back in service. I'm hopeful that means they can hit the ground running with getting this SDO in working order as soon as possible.
Personal complaints aside, I imagine the issue is getting the staff to work evening services. I do like the idea of a shorter service but it would be hard to decide where to terminate it: Walton already gets 4tph with Rice Lane so it's worth going beyond there; Aintree would require ECS moves in between because of where the crossover is (not itself a problem, but could increase delays); and if you go as far as Maghull I sort of think you may as well go all the way.
I think there's an ongoing pay dispute which nearly caused major strikes during Open weekend in July, so it could be a tough ask to get more services running at the moment. Southport is back to 6/8 diagrams as 8-cars, so it looks like most of the damaged units are back in service. I'm hopeful that means they can hit the ground running with getting this SDO in working order as soon as possible.