Merseyrail 777 introduction

[jamesst]

Saw an 8 car working with 777026 and 777029 at moorfields going into liverpool central and then back out this afternoon. Is this going to be a regular thing, or is it just the odd one.

Theres booked 8 car workings 7 days a week on the Southport line over the summer

 

[MR-507508]

Anyone have any further update on the 8 car on the Ormskirk to Hunts Cross line with SDO in place. Does not seem to have ran the past week after having a spell of running?

 

[777142]

I've just noticed there was one extra 8-car service from Aintree to Liverpool Central on Friday night (not sure why, and no SDO required as far as I know), but I think there are a good few units out of use at the moment - I've seen a couple of services get unit swapped in the last couple of days. Fingers crossed they'll have them fixed soon. December timetable is showing Southport-Hunts Cross direct so I'm cautiously optimistic, but of course that could change.

 

[390112A]

I've just noticed there was one extra 8-car service from Aintree to Liverpool Central on Friday night (not sure why, and no SDO required as far as I know), but I think there are a good few units out of use at the moment - I've seen a couple of services get unit swapped in the last couple of days. Fingers crossed they'll have them fixed soon. December timetable is showing Southport-Hunts Cross direct so I'm cautiously optimistic, but of course that could change.

8 car was additional capacity for the Drone show taking place at Aintree race course I believe

 

[MrBeanie]

Spent a bit of time checking out the diagrams on the 28th:-
Saw 18 units running on the Wirral lines, but didn't have time to go past birkenhead depot
Then saw a further 24 units on the Northern lines, including 4 doubles operating on the Southport services

 

[karlbbb]

December timetable is showing Southport-Hunts Cross direct so I'm cautiously optimistic, but of course that could change.

We've seen this many times before though, and Merseyrail always manage to claw defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[777142]

8-car extras running peak-direction only on Hunts Cross today for the Everton home game, but not stopping at Cressington. What a surprise…

In other news there seems to be a test move planned for today shuttling between Chester and Hooton P1 every hour but it hasn’t left Birkenhead North depot an hour after it was planned to. There are also a couple of extra passenger services planned to go between Liverpool and Hooton using the crossovers north of Hooton, but that one is just a 4-car as expected.

 

[MR-507508]

8-car extras running peak-direction only on Hunts Cross today for the Everton home game, but not stopping at Cressington. What a surprise…

In other news there seems to be a test move planned for today shuttling between Chester and Hooton P1 every hour but it hasn’t left Birkenhead North depot an hour after it was planned to. There are also a couple of extra passenger services planned to go between Liverpool and Hooton using the crossovers north of Hooton, but that one is just a 4-car as expected.

I know it did not run, but any idea whether the test moves between Chester and Hooton P1 was planned to be 4 car or 8 car testing on the Wirral?

 

[Pacef8]

Due to signalling problems, services on the Ellesmere Port Line are starting and terminating at Rock Ferry.

Rail Replacement Buses are in operation between Hooton and Ellesmere Port.

This was about 14 mins ago at 3pm

 

[777142]

I know it did not run, but any idea whether the test moves between Chester and Hooton P1 was planned to be 4 car or 8 car testing on the Wirral?

Not sure about that one, sorry. The first extra services did run (which surprised me considering there was a VST move from New Brighton to XKK 20 minutes before the one that was set to go to Hooton) but it turned out that the 11:51 didn’t use the crossover. Luckily…

Due to signalling problems, services on the Ellesmere Port Line are starting and terminating at Rock Ferry.

Rail Replacement Buses are in operation between Hooton and Ellesmere Port.

This has been going since about 10:30 I think (although for the last couple of hours the vast majority are terminating at Hooton, not Rock Ferry). I was hoping to have a shot at Rock Ferry P4 but I missed it by a couple of minutes, instead I got the crossover into P3.
I was at Hooton between 11:45 and 12:30 and at that time the trains were coming in using alternating P3 and P2, so I got both crossovers without much trouble (arrive into P3, then depart from P2)

There was a moment when a train came in on P2 and was due out next, then another came in on P3 and left before the P2 one despite initially being told it would go first. Not great as it just meant that train went with very few on and ours just got busier because there were so many people travelling to the football. I guess the signallers didn’t want too many services on the crossovers or something. At one point there were trains in every section between Bromborough Rake and Hooton on the down line. I overheard something about there being a SPAD during this debacle as well.

The main thing I noticed today was the disappointing number of staff members about. Obviously with it being a Sunday it was to be expected but it’s still not great to see a few dozen passengers surrounding the ticket office at Rock Ferry for information that the staff member apparently didn’t have (at the advice of the on-train staff) about subsequent travel options and that there were in fact no RRBs from there when trains were terminating short of Hooton.

 

[Ellis101]

It is increasingly difficult to remain optimistic about the introduction of 8-car formations and the full reinstatement of the direct Hunts Cross to Southport service. The ongoing disruption—including the restricted 30-minute evening frequency past 8 PM on the Hunts Cross branch—has gone on for far too long. This is now having a tangible economic impact, with falling passenger numbers at St Michaels and local businesses on Lark Lane struggling as a result.

 

[Alan508]

It is increasingly difficult to remain optimistic about the introduction of 8-car formations and the full reinstatement of the direct Hunts Cross to Southport service. The ongoing disruption—including the restricted 30-minute evening frequency past 8 PM on the Hunts Cross branch—has gone on for far too long. This is now having a tangible economic impact, with falling passenger numbers at St Michaels and local businesses on Lark Lane struggling as a result.

It's 30 mins in the evening on most lines, what makes the Hunts Cross branch so special?

 

[Djgr]

It's 30 mins in the evening on most lines, what makes the Hunts Cross branch so special?

When the south Liverpool branch was reopened to Garston, the trains ran to Kirkby!

 

[M28361M]

It's 30 mins in the evening on most lines, what makes the Hunts Cross branch so special?

As I understand it, the 15 min evening service was introduced to provide improved connections to Liverpool South Parkway. Regardless of whether the line is "special", a 50% cut in evening services is not the fabulous future we were promised when the 777s were delivered.

Does anyone know what is happening with 8 cars at Cressington? Twice now they have tried to introduce SDO, both times something has gone wrong after a day or two, then it's months before they try again.

 

[777142]

It might be a matter of waiting until after the engineering works now. Nothing is running down to Hunts Cross for 4 weeks in October and November so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see them again until afterwards.

 

[Ellis101]

It's 30 mins in the evening on most lines, what makes the Hunts Cross branch so special?

Probably because it’s been every 15 minutes ever since Liverpool South Parkway opened back in 2006.

You’re point is a false equivalence.


What makes Hunts Cross different isn't just about comparing it to Kirkby or Ormskirk it's how the line actually functions. South of Central, Hunts Cross is the sole branch serving the entire southern corridor. When you cut Hunts Cross to 30 minutes, you’re halving the frequency for the entire south side of the city, whereas the northern side splits its frequency across multiple branches.


On top of that, Liverpool South Parkway is a major multi-modal interchange for mainline trains and the airport, and stations like St Michaels feed directly into Lark Lane one of the city's busiest dining and nightlife hubs with a massive concentration of independent businesses.


Cutting evening services by 50% directly hurts that hospitality trade, and St Michaels' passenger numbers dropping by 100,000 in 24/25 proves it (even with the boost from Radio 1's Big Weekend). Other stations along the branch are seeing falling footfall too, so this isn't just an isolated issue.


Having spent two years commuting to college on 8am services, I don't just miss the 6-car formations during peak times I miss the reliable 15-minute evening frequency that made spontaneous trips into town or Lark Lane effortless.


Hunts Cross got 6-car, 15-minute services pre-Class 777s. If the route didnt justify that level of capacity and frequency, Merseyrail wouldnt have run it for almost two decades.


What an awful downgrade.

 

[jamesst]

Probably because it’s been every 15 minutes ever since Liverpool South Parkway opened back in 2006.

You’re point is a false equivalence.


What makes Hunts Cross different isn't just about comparing it to Kirkby or Ormskirk it's how the line actually functions. South of Central, Hunts Cross is the sole branch serving the entire southern corridor. When you cut Hunts Cross to 30 minutes, you’re halving the frequency for the entire south side of the city, whereas the northern side splits its frequency across multiple branches.


On top of that, Liverpool South Parkway is a major multi-modal interchange for mainline trains and the airport, and stations like St Michaels feed directly into Lark Lane one of the city's busiest dining and nightlife hubs with a massive concentration of independent businesses.


Cutting evening services by 50% directly hurts that hospitality trade, and St Michaels' passenger numbers dropping by 100,000 in 24/25 proves it (even with the boost from Radio 1's Big Weekend). Other stations along the branch are seeing falling footfall too, so this isn't just an isolated issue.


Having spent two years commuting to college on 8am services, I don't just miss the 6-car formations during peak times I miss the reliable 15-minute evening frequency that made spontaneous trips into town or Lark Lane effortless.


Hunts Cross got 6-car, 15-minute services pre-Class 777s. If the route didnt justify that level of capacity and frequency, Merseyrail wouldnt have run it for almost two decades.


What an awful downgrade.

I mean you make some excellent points and it 100% is a downgrade, not one of the lines has seen any upgrade since the new stock came.

But let's also be honest, the only reason the Hunts Cross line ever got 6 cars was because the trains came to/from Southport.
The only reason the Hunts Cross line ever got a 15min frequency in the evening was because they were already in place on the Southports and it only cost one extra unit.

 

[MR-507508]

Probably because it’s been every 15 minutes ever since Liverpool South Parkway opened back in 2006.

You’re point is a false equivalence.


What makes Hunts Cross different isn't just about comparing it to Kirkby or Ormskirk it's how the line actually functions. South of Central, Hunts Cross is the sole branch serving the entire southern corridor. When you cut Hunts Cross to 30 minutes, you’re halving the frequency for the entire south side of the city, whereas the northern side splits its frequency across multiple branches.


On top of that, Liverpool South Parkway is a major multi-modal interchange for mainline trains and the airport, and stations like St Michaels feed directly into Lark Lane one of the city's busiest dining and nightlife hubs with a massive concentration of independent businesses.


Cutting evening services by 50% directly hurts that hospitality trade, and St Michaels' passenger numbers dropping by 100,000 in 24/25 proves it (even with the boost from Radio 1's Big Weekend). Other stations along the branch are seeing falling footfall too, so this isn't just an isolated issue.


Having spent two years commuting to college on 8am services, I don't just miss the 6-car formations during peak times I miss the reliable 15-minute evening frequency that made spontaneous trips into town or Lark Lane effortless.


Hunts Cross got 6-car, 15-minute services pre-Class 777s. If the route didnt justify that level of capacity and frequency, Merseyrail wouldnt have run it for almost two decades.


What an awful downgrade.

Out of interest, how does the bus network compare South of Central compared to the northern side (I must admit, I have no idea regarding the bus network) ?