May 2025 possible timetable changes

[dk1]

Thats the December 2025 timetable.

For the May 2025 timetable the ECML paths remain the same, meaning it'll be something like:

Northbound from Kings Cross:
Odd xx03 - to Leeds
Odd xx33 - to Harrogate
Even xx03 - to Leeds
Even xx33 - to Bradford

Southbound from Leeds:
Odd xx15 - from Bradford
Odd xx45 - starts Leeds
Even xx15 - from Harrogate
Even xx45 - starts Leeds

One of if not the best we’ve ever known.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

One of if not the best we’ve ever known.

Until you end up with very high levels of 5 car workings as a result.
I know it sounds drainingly cynical, but we’ve seen it on multiple occasions elsewhere.

 

[CyrusWuff]

does anyone think Chiltern will bring back their 90 minute services from Birmingham Moor Street to London?

Not a chance. The only way they achieved that was by running non-stop between Warwick Parkway and Marylebone, with Wrexham & Shropshire picking up the Banbury calls (and possibly Leamington Spa as well.) That resulted in Chiltern getting fined for a breach of their franchise agreement.

The only way the Birmingham and Oxford services can be speeded up is if the various stopping/semi-fast services that haven't run since the pandemic are reinstated, which would mean working the already overstretched fleet even harder and likely require more Drivers than they currently have.

 

[urban]

Now that Merseyrail is fully 777 operated, are we expecting a full rewrite by the next timetable change? Would be great to see their acceleration put to good use.

 

[duncombec]

We would welcome the second high speed service per hour back through the Medway towns on Saturdays and possibly a period of 5 or 6 hours on a Sunday where we had 2 TPH high speed as well, these services are extremely popular and although some diagrams are 12-car there are still quite a few that are six and these tend to be very crowded

+1 !

Yes, the loss of the second high speed service is annoying, not only for journeys to London, but because the current Kent timetable is written around that service (unsurprisingly), so its removal gives a somewhat lop-sided timetable for local journeys as well. E.g. Saturday journeys from Chatham to Gravesend (a reasonably common flow) are at xx10, xx28, xx40 (missing xx58), although coming back is even worse (and would be anyway), at xx44, xx47 and xx17.

12 carriages every hour is simply a less-pleasing customer experience than 6 carriages every half hour, especially if factoring in further connections in London.

 

[JRT]

LNER to Bradford is becoming two-hourly in May, according to Modern Railways.

It's not been clear, I'm assuming
KgX 08:33 10:33 12:33 14:33 16:33 18:33
BdQ 06:30 08:43 10:43 12:43 14:43 16:43

 

[warwickshire]

Not a chance. The only way they achieved that was by running non-stop between Warwick Parkway and Marylebone, with Wrexham & Shropshire picking up the Banbury calls (and possibly Leamington Spa as well.) That resulted in Chiltern getting fined for a breach of their franchise agreement.

The only way the Birmingham and Oxford services can be speeded up is if the various stopping/semi-fast services that haven't run since the pandemic are reinstated, which would mean working the already overstretched fleet even harder and likely require more Drivers than they currently have.

Can, be achievable, Banbury depot has fair few surplus drivers available soon.
This could well be, possible, the solution to this, if Chiltern want to create new service patterns, but without going into speculation and off topic much, maybe if and when the future Mk5 arrive, this may well be so, but at a later timetable change?.

 

[SeanM1997]

Is Avanti bringing back its 1000 Glasgow - Birmingham - London / 0633 London - Birmingham - Glasgow? Its currently a large gap between Scotland and Birmingham via Crewe of 2 hours which is convenient. Especially as from Warrington to Crewe (a journey of just 25 miles) there is just an hourly service and this leaves a 2 hour gap.

 

[Chiltern006]

Most of Avanti isn’t upstream yet so hold tight…

 

[Baji]

Suggestion for Southern

I recommend the following services between London Victoria and Horsham/Dorking to be increased from 5 coaches to 8.

Monday to Friday

• 15:41 London Victoria to Horsham due 17:02
• 17:14 Horsham to London Victoria due 18:45
• 19:11 London Victoria to Dorking due 20:07
• 20:17 Dorking to London Victoria due 21:15
• 21:41 London Victoria to Horsham due 23:02

The inbound service from West Croydon that arrives at 15:35 which has 8 carriages could be used to form the 15:41 departure to Horsham and then could be used to form the rest of these services on that route

To make this change happen, Monday to Friday from roughly 15:30 onwards, services between London Victoria and London Bridge could interwork with services between London Victoria and Epsom Downs.
Services between London Victoria and West Croydon could interwork with Peak services between London Victoria and Sutton. These services still run with mostly 8 carriages with maybe the odd 10 carriages, so it would do more beneficial.

 

[devon_belle]

Suggestion for Southern

I recommend the following services between London Victoria and Horsham/Dorking to be increased from 5 coaches to 8.

Monday to Friday

• 15:41 London Victoria to Horsham due 17:02
• 17:14 Horsham to London Victoria due 18:45
• 19:11 London Victoria to Dorking due 20:07
• 20:17 Dorking to London Victoria due 21:15
• 21:41 London Victoria to Horsham due 23:02

The inbound service from West Croydon that arrives at 15:35 which has 8 carriages could be used to form the 15:41 departure to Horsham and then could be used to form the rest of these services on that route

To make this change happen, Monday to Friday from roughly 15:30 onwards, services between London Victoria and London Bridge could interwork with services between London Victoria and Epsom Downs.
Services between London Victoria and West Croydon could interwork with Peak services between London Victoria and Sutton. These services still run with mostly 8 carriages with maybe the odd 10 carriages, so it would do more beneficial.

Are these ones particularly busy? I know the London end gets busy but with the possible exception of the 17:14 these don't significantly fill up in my experience. What I can attest to is the need for 8-10 cars on the late night services, especially the 23:25 off Victoria on a Friday.

I note the 08:17 (now 08:14) Horsham to Victoria was increased from 5 to 8 cars in December 2023 iirc, which resulted in the arrival time being changed from 09:45 to 09:49. This can be a problem when the train typically arrives at 09:41! The journey time on this train is now 1h35m, compared to the normal 1h21m in the down direction.

 

[Baji]

Are these ones particularly busy? I know the London end gets busy but with the possible exception of the 17:14 these don't significantly fill up in my experience. What I can attest to is the need for 8-10 cars on the late night services, especially the 23:25 off Victoria on a Friday.

I note the 08:17 (now 08:14) Horsham to Victoria was increased from 5 to 8 cars in December 2023 iirc, which resulted in the arrival time being changed from 09:45 to 09:49. This can be a problem when the train typically arrives at 09:41! The journey time on this train is now 1h35m, compared to the normal 1h21m in the down direction.

Definitely the 15:41 London Victoria to Horsham service and 19:11 London Victoria to Dorking services are usually very busy particularly to Carshalton

 

[SeanM1997]

CrossCountry are proposing timetable changes in May 2025:

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sale-of-access-rights/Consultations/Current%20Track%20Access%20Consultations/31.01.2025%20-%20XCTL%20-%20Section%2022%20-%2037th%20SA%20-%20Closes%2003.02.2025/XC%2037th%20Supplemental%20Form%20P.pdf

I can't work out as of yet if Crewe will get extra services or if they will go through without stopping

 

[jfollows]

RTT shows 1M88 20:42 Reading to Manchester call at Stoke, but pass Crewe & Wilmslow before using the Styal line and therefore bypassing Stockport. 22:30 from New Street. The only calls at Crewe are at 05:44 up and 08:27 down, as today.

 

[SeanM1997]

RTT shows 1M88 20:42 Reading to Manchester call at Stoke, but pass Crewe & Wilmslow before using the Styal line and therefore bypassing Stockport. 22:30 from New Street.

The 1725 Manchester - Bournemouth also passes Crewe without stopping. Its a shame these services have to crawl through Crewe but don't stop to offer services - even if low usage it would still be a benefit if there were calling points

 

[jfollows]

The 1725 Manchester - Bournemouth also passes Crewe without stopping. Its a shame these services have to crawl through Crewe but don't stop to offer services - even if low usage it would still be a benefit if there were calling points

It used to call at Crewe, but both the Wilmslow and Crewe calls were removed in recent years. It only goes this way to free up a path for the 17:18 Piccadilly to Stoke local train.

The calls were removed "because of Covid" but were never reinstated, attached is the timetable from May 2019.

 

[swt_passenger]

CrossCountry are proposing timetable changes in May 2025:

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sale-of-access-rights/Consultations/Current%20Track%20Access%20Consultations/31.01.2025%20-%20XCTL%20-%20Section%2022%20-%2037th%20SA%20-%20Closes%2003.02.2025/XC%2037th%20Supplemental%20Form%20P.pdf

I can't work out as of yet if Crewe will get extra services or if they will go through without stopping

Is this really speculation, given the changes have already been discussed in the other May 25 thread? We were already aware that the Reading - Newcastle corridor changes were significantly less than those described in the 2024 track access application, so I suppose it’s about time a revised TAA was made available; but surely this is being done after the decision was already made?

 

[I'm here now]

Get rid of express services in Cornwall, make it clock face!

 

[anthony263]

Be nice of TFW to fill in the 2 hour gaps on the Swanline services and rethink joining them with the Pembroke Dock services.

 

[TheGuy77]

Does anybody know if the Reading-Newcastle services will return to hourly?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Does anybody know if the Reading-Newcastle services will return to hourly?

It would appear not. It looks like two hourly but with the odd additional service.

 

[TheGuy77]

It would appear not. It looks like two hourly but with the odd additional service.

Apparently 1 morning tpd will start from Southampton Central according to RTT.

 

[dk1]

Apparently 1 morning tpd will start from Southampton Central according to RTT.

It’s so odd that they haven’t all returned to normal yet again.

 

[I'm here now]

Does anyone know if the Greenwich services will return to 6tph?

 

[Stephen42]

Does anyone know if the Greenwich services will return to 6tph?

May 25 the Southeastern timetable is the same for Greenwich (aside from Blackheath tunnel blockade), 6tph when combined with Thameslink at Greenwich for peak times and 4tph outside of that.

 

[Baji]

Southern, Thameslink and great northern haven’t updated the changes are happening in the next timetable change in May 2025 which is surprising as I thought they normally announce it at end of march. Unless they are not doing much but doing something big for December?

 

[PGAT]

Southern, Thameslink and great northern haven’t updated the changes are happening in the next timetable change in May 2025 which is surprising as I thought they normally announce it at end of march. Unless they are not doing much but doing something big for December?

They’re not usually quick on these sort of things but this timetable nothing is changing (that people care about)

 

[465fan]

Not a chance. The only way they achieved that was by running non-stop between Warwick Parkway and Marylebone, with Wrexham & Shropshire picking up the Banbury calls (and possibly Leamington Spa as well.) That resulted in Chiltern getting fined for a breach of their franchise agreement.

The only way the Birmingham and Oxford services can be speeded up is if the various stopping/semi-fast services that haven't run since the pandemic are reinstated, which would mean working the already overstretched fleet even harder and likely require more Drivers than they currently have.

I made specific efforts to ask this during a recent CIRO event and it was dodged. So, they're keeping it all nice and slow.

 

[Zomboid]

Whilst I would personally quite like it if OXP-MYB were faster, there doesn't seem to be masses of demand to justify that. It's not going to compete on time or London connectivity with Paddington for the Oxford main station traffic unless megabucks were thrown at it (4 tracking to Wycombe or Princes Risborough and electrification style megabucks).

 

[cle]

It used to, before the 80x and partial wiring knocked 10 mins off Paddington. Slough was dropped (2tph) - Didcot picked up 1tph so there is an hourly service which is Reading only, and 49 mins! Chiltern can't compete on that.

Add the pandemic Chiltern consolidations, and the necessary calls and growth at Bicester and Oxford Parkway - and being quickest end to end doesn't make sense. So being a semi-fast Bucks route is likely better, for demand in both directions, vs a peak flow.