May 2023 changes

[Stopper]

That seems to be an international trend. On the Vienna S-Bahn, we used to have lots of 6-to-3-car „weakenings“ off-peak and on the outer fringes of the network. That has virtually disappeared. High staff costs for the maneuvers required and threats to reliability are said to outweigh increased operating costs (which are probably quite a bit lower for electric traction than for diesel) and maintenance needed.

I am assuming it’s an EMU thing. You rarely see double DMUs off-peak (in central Scotland at least) but EMUs seem to remain in their formations all day.

I used to be jealous of the 6-car 334s that would rock up to Haymarket mostly empty off peak while my Glasgow or Dunblane train would show up as a single Class 170 or a single Class 158.

 

[Alfie1014]

As you quote, the intended service standard was for passengers not to have to stand for more than 20 minutes. The only stop within 20 minutes of London is Stratford!

But it was always measured from where the train was busiest (not necessarily the London terminal) which for services calling at Stratford for example would include to/from Shenfield (16/17 mins running time).

 

[sammyg901]

The diagram that begins with the Risborough service from May is then Gerrards Cross locals rather than the current loco set going onto Birmingham services.

If this is based off of the platform numbers at Marylebone then I don't think these are correct, e.g there are quite a few services currently showing as c
oming into a platform a couple of minutes before a departure which wouldn't work in reality.

The set currently goes back to Wembley lmd and the bulk of these ECS workings don't seem to be in yet throughout the day but the working from Wembley to Princes Risborough in the morning is showing, so I strongly suspect this will still be a loco hauled set, it's a very busy train.

 

[Verulamius]

It will happen eventually. Services are getting busier. Been on a lot of lunchtime services recently they’re fairly well loaded. Not pre-pandemic level during off-peak and certainly not the peaks but it’s improving.

A lot depends on how they want to provide capacity. 8-car running isn’t needed all day off-peak, but the 385s have seemed to remain in that formation 90% of the time since being introduced. During the Class 170 days, services were pretty much all single units (3-car) all day off-peak. It was only at peak time they became 6 car.

According to the statistics published by the Department of Transport yesterday, overall rail passenger numbers have been continuing to rise with some days in February being more than the equivalent pre covid.

These statistics are currently published monthly.

Passenger journeys in the week ending Monday 6 March 2023 were 87% of those observed in the equivalent week in 2019. In the current publishing period, weekly average usage figures have been between 79% to 103%, compared to 58% to 98% in the last publishing period

 

[Stopper]

According to the statistics published by the Department of Transport yesterday, overall rail passenger numbers have been continuing to rise with some days in February being more than the equivalent pre covid.

These statistics are currently published monthly.

I can only speak for the lines I travel on. Edinburgh-Glasgow main line and Edinburgh-Dunblane are certainly nothing like pre-Covid during peaks but I’d suggest that the off-peak numbers are similar.

 

[Goldfish62]

According to the statistics published by the Department of Transport yesterday, overall rail passenger numbers have been continuing to rise with some days in February being more than the equivalent pre covid.

These statistics are currently published monthly.

The data includes the central operating section of the Elizabeth line, which didn't exist in 2019. Considering the whole of the Elizabeth line is carrying twice as many passengers as the whole of SWR then it's obvious it's skewing the stats quite significantly.

 

[Chiltern006]

Apart from the reintroduction of Charing Cross services via Bexleyheath, are there any other changes on Southeastern?

 

[jamieintercity]

Cross Country are reinstating the Fife stops from May

 

[hexagon789]

Cross Country are reinstating the Fife stops from May

Interesting, previously only Leuchars was showing as an additional, but I see the rest have now been added

 

[moogal]

From looking at RTT, there's an extra return peak time Southern service to Hemel Hempstead. 18:10 service from East Croydon - 19:38 off Hemel.

Oh I wish that service could be extended to Milton Keynes again, I can even remember the time it used to be a Watford Junction - Brighton service!

Would be very handy - I used to use it to get from Leighton Buzzard to work in Shepherd's Bush, but since it was cut back to Watford it's not been very practical, as the 20+ minute connection at Watford from the LNR service means it's usually quicker to continue into Euston and use the Underground.

 

[frodshamfella]

Indeed the hourly Liverpool - Halton Curve - Llandudno service is supposed to be starting in December 2023 (already at least one year late!) although I would be surprised if it doesn’t commence until May 2024 - if at all!

Looks as though the 2 trains per hour on Wrexham - Bidston has vanished as well!

I would be pretty unhappy if this service that took donkies year to return was suddenly put on hold again. I use it frequently from Frodsham to Liverpool and even with this ridiculous Covid every 2 hours service, its popular. Going via Chester takes way to long from here, just wouldn't do it. So I hope it continues as is, but its really rubbish its taking so so long. Just seems to be the UK in general.

 

[gnolife]

I would be pretty unhappy if this service that took donkies year to return was suddenly put on hold again. I use it frequently from Frodsham to Liverpool and even with this ridiculous Covid every 2 hours service, its popular. Going via Chester takes way to long from here, just wouldn't do it. So I hope it continues as is, but its really rubbish its taking so so long. Just seems to be the UK in general.

I'm pretty sure that the Chester - Liverpool section isn't under threat.

 

[Llandudno]

I'm pretty sure that the Chester - Liverpool section isn't under threat.

Chester - Frodsham -Liverpool service suspended until further notice…

 

[dk1]

Chester - Frodsham -Liverpool service suspended until further notice…

Makes sense if it better assists with stock utilisation from the 175 debacle. Punters have other options available to complete their journeys.

 

[Llandudno]

Makes sense if it better assists with stock utilisation from the 175 debacle. Punters have other options available to complete their journeys.

Maybe if travelling between Chester and Liverpool City Centre, bit convoluted for any of the following journeys though:
Chester/Helsby/Frodsham to Liverpool South Parkway or Runcorn

TfW should really provide an all stations rail replacement bus between Chester and Liverpool South Parkway

 

[Stephen42]

Apart from the reintroduction of Charing Cross services via Bexleyheath, are there any other changes on Southeastern?

The Charing Cross via Bexleyheath services should now be showing on Real Time Trains and similar sites. On weekdays a lot of the differences are minor retimings or changes to empty stock movements.

There are several other changes my code has flagged, no guarantees it's all accurate, haven't missed anything and unsure if any changes still to come:

• The Dartford to/from Blackfriars via Sidcup services have been removed. There's an additional 1743 Charing X to Dartford using the same path into Dartford
• The 0737 Slade Green to Dartford now starts from Lee at 0709. The 0726 New Cross to Cannon Street rounder also starts at Lee
• Several early trains that started from Dartford now start from Crayford and vice versa
• The 0711 Orpington to Cannon Street has been removed
• The 0905 Tonbridge to Charing X is removed, though the 0909 Tunbridge Wells service which ran immediately following a Hastings to Charing X now uses this path. There is an additional 0938 Orpington to Charing X fast using the path of the moved Tunbridge Wells service. Together these changes should space out the first off peak passengers from various stations onto different services
• The evening Cannon Street to Margate services now go as far as Ramsgate
• A new 1622 Charing X to Tonbridge service
• A couple of against the flow services in the evening peak start closer to London

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

They kept charing cross to Maidstone in may instead of withdrawing it

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I am assuming it’s an EMU thing. You rarely see double DMUs off-peak (in central Scotland at least) but EMUs seem to remain in their formations all day.

I used to be jealous of the 6-car 334s that would rock up to Haymarket mostly empty off peak while my Glasgow or Dunblane train would show up as a single Class 170 or a single Class 158.

I don't see any DMU or EMU routes that have different train lengths peak Vs off peak in Manchester

 

[Peregrine 4903]

They kept charing cross to Maidstone in may instead of withdrawing it

When was it getting withdrawn? Its only just started. Its here to stay for the long term.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Cheers

 

[northwichcat]

Maybe if travelling between Chester and Liverpool City Centre, bit convoluted for any of the following journeys though:
Chester/Helsby/Frodsham to Liverpool South Parkway or Runcorn

TfW should really provide an all stations rail replacement bus between Chester and Liverpool South Parkway

Agreed. You can't promote a new rail link and then, once people start using it, withdraw it because you're short of trains for other routes.

 

[frodshamfella]

Chester - Frodsham -Liverpool service suspended until further notice…

Completely rubbish service, unbelievable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Mar 2023 ==

Makes sense if it better assists with stock utilisation from the 175 debacle. Punters have other options available to complete their journeys.

Not really, only from Chester. Plus not good if you want to get to the airport either.

 

[dk1]

Not very convenient ones

Maybe not but you can’t have everything. It’s the lesser of two evils.

 

[frodshamfella]

Maybe not but you can’t have everything. It’s the lesser of two evils.

Not having anything at all by the looks of it. TfW have been pretty disappointing since Covid on the service, which is well.used despite the level of service.

 

[northwichcat]

Maybe not but you can’t have everything. It’s the lesser of two evils.

There's more than two options. Even providing a single shuttle bus running between Runcorn East and Runcorn is better than them withdrawing the train service and not providing any form of replacement.

 

[frodshamfella]

There's more than two options. Even providing a single shuttle bus running between Runcorn East and Runcorn is better than them withdrawing the train service and not providing any form of replacement.

I've emailed my MP about it, who is going to raise it in Parliament.

 

[tom1649]

There's more than two options. Even providing a single shuttle bus running between Runcorn East and Runcorn is better than them withdrawing the train service and not providing any form of replacement.

Would it not make sense to let Northern run it? At least in the short term. They seem to be better off for stock than TFW.

 

[dk1]

Would it not make sense to let Northern run it? At least in the short term. They seem to be better off for stock than TFW.

Would Northern want to or have available rolling stock or crews. They'd have to be route conducted too and TfW wouldn't sign 195s even if they hired in.

 

[tom1649]

Would Northern want to or have available rolling stock or crews. They'd have to be route conducted too and TfW wouldn't sign 195s even if they hired in.

Probably not. That would be far too difficult for our fragmented railway.

 

[northwichcat]

Would Northern want to or have available rolling stock or crews. They'd have to be route conducted too and TfW wouldn't sign 195s even if they hired in.

150s are the stock type that both operators have. Northern don't have crews based at Chester. When a unit comes off the Mid-Cheshire service for the Helsby to Ellesmere Port shuttle it gets handed over from Manchester crews to Liverpool crews.