May 2023 changes

[YorkshireBear]

Yes, and no, respectively!

So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

 

[dk1]

I’ll second that! I had briefly mentioned this way back upthread but the main focus seemed to be on the south coast services, a great surprise - was beginning to think we would never see it return, at least not in the near future.

The 10:14 ex-Paignton was always well loaded with a large proportion who boarded up to Dawlish still seated after Exeter. I used this train quite often to Temple Meads & it wasn’t uncommon for the trolley not to get right through until well after Taunton even though it started after departure from Torquay.

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So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

Staff have been told that the 06:48 Norwich-Liverpool St will be returning from May due to the overcrowding now experienced on the 06:28/07:05 departures but it’s not showing yet.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The 10:14 ex-Paignton was always well loaded with a large proportion who boarded up to Dawlish still seated after Exeter. I used this train quite often to Temple Meads & it wasn’t uncommon for the trolley not to get right through until well after Taunton even though it started after departure from Torquay.

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Staff have been told that the 06:48 Norwich-Liverpool St will be returning from May due to the overcrowding now experienced on the 06:28/07:05 departures but it’s not showing yet.

Indeed, we’ve used it too for many years as our return service to Manchester/Stockport from our holidays spent in north Cornwall, joining at Exeter SD. Have been fortunate enough to have booked 1st class on most occasions and always had a relaxing journey well worth it when laden with holiday luggage, only problem as you stated being the fact that the trolley host could initially struggle to get through until usually after Bristol because of the loadings in standard.

 

[aag2110]

Looks like the Calder Valley is going 2tph Manchester-Leeds on a Sunday, up from 1tph which will be very welcome.

Sunday generally the only day of the week I’ve found regularly having to stand, as route popular with day trippers in multiple directions- going in to Manchester/Leeds but also out to places like Hebden Bridge. It also offers advance tickets roughly 1/2 the price of TPE MCV-LDS and Isn’t much slower when there is weekend diversions on TPE.

 

[The Planner]

So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

Not pointless, but its not the finsihed article.

 

[Bald Rick]

So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

Not pointless, but it’s not the finsihed article.

What he said!

For almost all of the 22000 daily trains in there, it will be no change.

 

[barbette165]

A niche observation, which be just a data entry error, but the four request stops between Stratford-upon-Avon and Birmingham Moor Street (Wootton Wawen, Danzey, Wood End and The Lakes) are not indicated as request stops from May.

(Last Tuesday I travelled mid afternoon from Birmingham and we called at all the stops).

 

[The Planner]

A niche observation, which be just a data entry error, but the four request stops between Stratford-upon-Avon and Birmingham Moor Street (Wootton Wawen, Danzey, Wood End and The Lakes) are not indicated as request stops from May.

(Last Tuesday I travelled mid afternoon from Birmingham and we called at all the stops).

Not an error.

 

[md2016]

In the peak though on a practical level it's 2tph today - the 1721 and 1821 is followed by a stopper 3 minutes later, I doubt they have many ex MYB passengers on board by the time they get there. So it makes sense to rationalise the calls

Beaconsfield (and some other places on that line) are strange in that it gets a faster service off peak than during the peak but with a 2 track railway and limited passing options it makes best use of capacity

I see your location is Haddenham, that is one place that does actually retain an almost useful third service in the evening peak northbound - 07,15 and 45 past the hr departures + 1707 and 1807 on the hauled sets and all services 100mph paths so 168 operated.

Yes, Haddenham retains a very good service considering. But I still get annoyed when I see short sighted solutions to problems, even if it doesn't hugely affect me.

I've used the slower and faster metro trains before through Beaconsfield and they are always rammed at peak times with 3tph. They must be top 7/8 busiest non-terminus stations on the line.

Putting them at the end of a slow stopping service where 70% will stay on until those stations will ruin the commute for everyone up until HW. And despite the fact I occasionally commute into Birmingham, feels much less efficient overall than 1TPH to Birmingham having to change at Banbury.

 

[sammyg901]

Yes, Haddenham retains a very good service considering. But I still get annoyed when I see short sighted solutions to problems, even if it doesn't hugely affect me.

I've used the slower and faster metro trains before through Beaconsfield and they are always rammed at peak times with 3tph. They must be top 7/8 busiest non-terminus stations on the line.

Putting them at the end of a slow stopping service where 70% will stay on until those stations will ruin the commute for everyone up until HW. And despite the fact I occasionally commute into Birmingham, feels much less efficient overall than 1TPH to Birmingham having to change at Banbury.

I'm assuming they're going to be decent length trains otherwise they are going to be miserable indeed. But as long as they are I don't think they'll be too bad, Beaconsfield doesn't get fast services in the peak now really, the XX.21 Banbury only make a couple of stops but in my observation these are usually very busy services so not having High Wycombe etc passengers onboard will hopefully balance the loadings somewhat and make it a more comfortable journey

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

What he said!

For almost all of the 22000 daily trains in there, it will be no change.

That feels like a better outcome than perhaps we expected in terms of number of trains but perhaps not in terms of train length ie stock being off leased to reduce vehicle miles

 

[sammyg901]

dupe

 

[30907]

That is quite clever. The shortest of services, formed off a working into Victoria to act as a crowdbuster on the Peckham Rye route. It is good to see this sort of innovation squeezing every last drop out of the train fleet.

And the first time there have been two trains that way since about the mid 60s!

 

[JRT]

Changes to Calder Valley/York routes:



Daily



Blackpool North – York calls additionally at Garforth

Sundays

Chester – Leeds: new hourly service, runs semi-fast Bradford – Leeds (does n’t call ats Bramley) ,


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Transpennine

Leeds – Hull/York
These now cease to call at Garforth apart from peak hours

 

[Peter A]

Changes to Calder Valley/York routes:



Daily



Blackpool North – York calls additionally at Garforth

Sundays

Chester – Leeds: new hourly service, runs semi-fast Bradford – Leeds (does n’t call ats Bramley) ,


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Transpennine

Leeds – Hull/York
These now cease to call at Garforth apart from peak hours

The changes at Garforth are in the current timetable, the Blackpool North to York calls replaced the TPE services in December.

 

[Watershed]

So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

Not entirely pointless, but nor is it 100% reliable. It's been this way since Covid started unfortunately

 

[YorkshireBear]

Not entirely pointless, but nor is it 100% reliable. It's been this way since Covid started unfortunately

My comment was more to say unwise to celebrate or commiserate too much if we know changes are coming.

 

[jamiearmley]

Changes to Calder Valley/York routes:



Daily



Blackpool North – York calls additionally at Garforth

Sundays

Chester – Leeds: new hourly service, runs semi-fast Bradford – Leeds (does n’t call ats Bramley) ,


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Transpennine

Leeds – Hull/York
These now cease to call at Garforth apart from peak hours

So Bramley still suffers with xx:56 and xx:06 services to Leeds on a Sunday? Ten minute gap then 50 minute wait.

Really needs looking at, especially considering the services that run semi fast that could easily stop there.

 

[Austriantrain]

The ministers rubber stamp what is put before them. Technically they "make the decision". In reality they need to have arguments if they want to go against what is presented to them. For something like railway service levels, the officials will know what pet issues their minister gives a shot about, or might cause them trouble, and likely factor in so as to avoid any possible points of conflict.

Having a lot of experience in public administration- albeit not in the UK, but I believe bureaucracies work the same everywhere - I can say that it is exactly as you describe.

 

[John C]

Looks like the Calder Valley is going 2tph Manchester-Leeds on a Sunday, up from 1tph which will be very welcome.

Sunday generally the only day of the week I’ve found regularly having to stand, as route popular with day trippers in multiple directions- going in to Manchester/Leeds but also out to places like Hebden Bridge. It also offers advance tickets roughly 1/2 the price of TPE MCV-LDS and Isn’t much slower when there is weekend diversions on TPE.

I agree this is very welcome as a regular user of this line travelling on a Sunday is nearly always standing room only.

 

[philosopher]

Not pointless, but its not the finsihed article.

I get the impression the timetables at the moment in Real Train Times are the best case scenario.

 

[Horizon22]

That is quite clever. The shortest of services, formed off a working into Victoria to act as a crowdbuster on the Peckham Rye route. It is good to see this sort of innovation squeezing every last drop out of the train fleet.

Should have just run it in passenger service from Victoria. It takes 17 minutes from Victoria to Streatham Hill, which is exactly the same as a passenger service takes. Would presume it's the same driver who took the empty unit. There's also bound to be close to a conflict at Victoria, so might not be the most timely service. The stock would probably have done something previously before though, but the idea is neat enough.

 

[PGAT]

Should have just run it in passenger service from Victoria. It takes 17 minutes from Victoria to Streatham Hill, which is exactly the same as a passenger service takes. Would presume it's the same driver who took the empty unit. It's also formed of a 0755 departure from Victoria and there's a 0754 conflicting arrival so I can't imagine those trains will be the most timely!

I would assume those 17 minutes are for wiggling room in case of a delay and running them as passenger services would cause more crowding than necessary

 

[Horizon22]

I would assume those 17 minutes are for wiggling room in case of a delay and running them as passenger services would cause more crowding than necessary

There's certainly performance time in built. My experience of class '3' trains is that the 'express' part tends to be disregarded in practice in metro railways!

 

[YorksLad12]

So basically real time trains at this moment in time is pointless for working out what the timetable in May will be.

To be fair, it is called "Real Time Trains". To plan a journey or see whatever passes for a timetable these days we should be using a journey planner such as the ones used by the operators, or NRES. RTT is a fantastic tool, but it isn't "the railway", and it's only as good as the data "the railway" supplies.

 

[D6130]

I agree this is very welcome as a regular user of this line travelling on a Sunday is nearly always standing room only.

This is partly because there are so few TPE trains running on Sundays at the moment that Leeds-Manchester and vice-versa passengers are often forced to travel via the Calder Valley.

 

[xotGD]

This is partly because there are so few TPE trains running on Sundays at the moment that Leeds-Manchester and vice-versa passengers are often forced to travel via the Calder Valley.

Not just on Sundays!

 

[RPI]

Good to see that the additional services between Paddington and Torbay on summer Saturdays are returning.

 

[dk1]

Good to see that the additional services between Paddington and Torbay on summer Saturdays are returning.

Yes the two-hourly extensions are very welcome. Hopefully they won’t suffer the traincrew issues of last year with many only running between Paignton & Exeter or not making it through to Torbay.

 

[DanNCL]

Only change I can see with LNER is that the timing loads now all match the booked traction - Electric Locomotive trailing load 410 tonnes for the five 91+Mark 4 diagrams, 80x for everything else.

In previous timetables there were some services using the 91 timing load that were booked 80xs, as well as a single service using an 80x timing load that was booked a 91.