May 2019 timetable changes

[dtaylor84]

The provisional changes in May 2019 show trains from Dunblane to Edinburgh at 07:02 (arr 07:58) and 07:58 (arr 08:58). It is possible to get the 07:30 from Dunblane as far as Stirling, changing onto the Alloa to Edinburgh service, which gets you in at 08:28.

It also shows the train from Edinburgh to Dunblane as leaving a minute later (1719), albeit then leaving Haymarket two minutes earlier (1723) and thankfully no longer waiting 13 minutes at Stirling, instead arriving in Bridge of Alan at 1811, rather than 1824...

So, with the slightly later departure in the morning from BofA, I save 15 minutes a day. Still not an improvement on the pre-Dec'18 timetable, though.

 

[embers25]

Not sure if this has appeared on here (apologies if it has) but it seems that trains operated by GWR (Hereford - Worcester - London Paddington) and XC (Cardiff Central - Birmingham NS - Nottingham) will commence to call at the new Worcestershire Parkway station starting 19th May 2019. Thus the city of Worcester will, for the first time since the closure of the stations at Henwick and Astwood, have more than 2 railway stations. I may go and get a photo or two.

Sunday trains (from 19th May): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/WOP/2019/05/19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Monday - Friday trains (from 20th May): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/WOP/2019/05/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Looks very much as if everything will call there but the connection times seem, in some cases, a bit long (and, in others, not enough?) when changing between the two lines.

Cheers,
Dave

Of more interest is the 0613 Bristol to Stansted direct!!!!!

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly I noticed that the 17:45 fast Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo service waits at Guildford for 6 minutes. It arrives 18:47 and departs 18:53 rather than 18:49, as most do on the other hours.

Surprised they don't plan stop it additionally at Worplesdon just to make use of the time, rather than leave it hanging around at Guildford.

 

[infobleep]

Does anyone know if all the South Western Railway changes have been inputted.

I'm seeing some new services but also some existing ones. For example the 6:11 Petersfield to Waterloo is showing and I thought that was going. The 5:50 Portsmouth Harbour however is showing as not stopping at Woking and that's a change.

Also there is no 8:28 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom. I thought one was being introduced - although not precisely at that time.

There are however still the 8:22 and 8:46 Guildford to Waterloo via Woking services showing. I thought they were going.

Selfishly I hooe the 6:11 Petersfield to Waterloo does remain as that is a useful service to Clapham Junction. The last fast one from Guildford even, before the extended gap due to sheer amount of trains running.

 

[VT 390]

Not sure if this has appeared on here (apologies if it has) but it seems that trains operated by GWR (Hereford - Worcester - London Paddington) and XC (Cardiff Central - Birmingham NS - Nottingham) will commence to call at the new Worcestershire Parkway station starting 19th May 2019. Thus the city of Worcester will, for the first time since the closure of the stations at Henwick and Astwood, have more than 2 railway stations. I may go and get a photo or two.

Sunday trains (from 19th May): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/WOP/2019/05/19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Monday - Friday trains (from 20th May): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/WOP/2019/05/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Looks very much as if everything will call there but the connection times seem, in some cases, a bit long (and, in others, not enough?) when changing between the two lines.

Cheers,
Dave

In the March issue of Modern Railways it says that the new station is expected to open in the final quarter of 2019 not in May.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Does anyone know if all the South Western Railway changes have been inputted.

I'm seeing some new services but also some existing ones. For example the 6:11 Petersfield to Waterloo is showing and I thought that was going. The 5:50 Portsmouth Harbour however is showing as not stopping at Woking and that's a change.

Also there is no 8:28 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom. I thought one was being introduced - although not precisely at that time.

There are however still the 8:22 and 8:46 Guildford to Waterloo via Woking services showing. I thought they were going.

Selfishly I hooe the 6:11 Petersfield to Waterloo does remain as that is a useful service to Clapham Junction. The last fast one from Guildford even, before the extended gap due to sheer amount of trains running.

The changes are mostly all in the system now as we are coming up to 12 weeks until the start. This is the Plan B scheme of a number of the planned Dec 18 changes not the full re-cast.

06.11 Petersfield to Waterloo was planned to stay as current; 05.50 Portsmouth Hbr to Waterloo switches to 10-444 and so looses it’s Woking call instead Woking is served by the new 06.28 Southampton Airport to Waterloo at a similar time.

There is a new 06.40 Havant to Waterloo which follows the current 06.15 Portsmouth Hbr to Waterloo

Worplesdon already has a 1/2 hourly service from Guildford in the evening so no need for extra one-off calls.

 

[infobleep]

The changes are mostly all in the system now as we are coming up to 12 weeks until the start. This is the Plan B scheme of a number of the planned Dec 18 changes not the full re-cast.

06.11 Petersfield to Waterloo was planned to stay as current; 05.50 Portsmouth Hbr to Waterloo switches to 10-444 and so looses it’s Woking call instead Woking is served by the new 06.28 Southampton Airport to Waterloo at a similar time.

There is a new 06.40 Havant to Waterloo which follows the current 06.15 Portsmouth Hbr to Waterloo

Worplesdon already has a 1/2 hourly service from Guildford in the evening so no need for extra one-off calls.

Thanks for that. For some reason I thought the full recast was happening in one go and I'm sure when I saw the final draft timetable things like the 6:11 had been removed. No one ever shared the different planned transition timetables that's for sure.

Anyway I'm happy because certain trains I catch from time to time are still there. So my journey won't be longer due to the changes.

Also I thought the Southern branded services were going and they have stayed but as before they are a poor match for the South Western Railway service that don't run from Guildford. At certain times of the morning it's quicker to get to places like Carshalton by travelling via Dorking and that includes a reasonable wait at Dorking Main too!

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for that. For some reason I thought the full recast was happening in one go and I'm sure when I saw the final draft timetable things like the 6:11 had been removed. No one ever shared the different planned transition timetables that's for sure.

Anyway I'm happy because certain trains I catch from time to time are still there. So my journey won't be longer due to the changes.

Also I thought the Southern branded services were going and they have stayed but as before they are a poor match for the South Western Railway service that don't run from Guildford. At certain times of the morning it's quicker to get to places like Carshalton by travelling via Dorking and that includes a reasonable wait at Dorking Main too!

There’s also a few pages of info about SWR changes in another thread that you might have missed here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-new-services.176482/
As is often the case you probably need both threads to get the best picture...

 

[infobleep]

There’s also a few pages of info about SWR changes in another thread that you might have missed here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-new-services.176482/
As is often the case you probably need both threads to get the best picture...

Cheers

 

[Kite159]

Seems to be more London Marylebone - Stratford upon Avon services from May.

Although looking at a few it's extensions to Marylebone - Banbury stoppers, which get looped at Banbury

 

[Esker-pades]

Seems to be more London Marylebone - Stratford upon Avon services from May.

Although looking at a few it's extensions to Marylebone - Banbury stoppers, which get looped at Banbury

2 and a half hours is hardly good for that distance. Not entirely sure why they've done that if I'm honest.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

2 and a half hours is hardly good for that distance. Not entirely sure why they've done that if I'm honest.

I hardly imagine anyone, other than those averse to changes (e.g. people with reduced mobility or in a wheelchair, people with lots of luggage and/or children etc.), would take the service from origin to destination. But it does seem more likely that perhaps rather a lot more would take it for some intermediate part of the journey, especially to avoid a change at Banbury (which they would current have to do, to get from the likes of Haddenham & Thame Parkway or Princes Risborough to stations between Leamington Spa and Stratford-upon-Avon.

 

[barbette165]

2 and a half hours is hardly good for that distance. Not entirely sure why they've done that if I'm honest.

They’ve linked Stratford to Leamington and Banbury to Marylebone services. Faster end to end journey times can be achieved by changing at Banbury. The target market is the foreign tourist who much prefers a through service to one that requires a change - particularly when English may not be their first language. There has been a lot of pressure on Chiltern by the Stratford tourism chiefs to re-instate the through services that were removed when the Oxford to Marylebone services started.

 

[VT 390]

They’ve linked Stratford to Leamington and Banbury to Marylebone services. Faster end to end journey times can be achieved by changing at Banbury. The target market is the foreign tourist who much prefers a through service to one that requires a change - particularly when English may not be their first language. There has been a lot of pressure on Chiltern by the Stratford tourism chiefs to re-instate the through services that were removed when the Oxford to Marylebone services started.

Could this affect the reliability of the service?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

They’ve linked Stratford to Leamington and Banbury to Marylebone services. Faster end to end journey times can be achieved by changing at Banbury. The target market is the foreign tourist who much prefers a through service to one that requires a change - particularly when English may not be their first language. There has been a lot of pressure on Chiltern by the Stratford tourism chiefs to re-instate the through services that were removed when the Oxford to Marylebone services started.

Of course the main net difference is then that Leamington-Banbury has an additional 2 services each way each day. Though it has 4tph, they're quite bunched up and therefore it presents a much less "turn up and go" service than a balanced 4tph, every 15 minutes, service might offer.

 

[Ianno87]

Of course the main net difference is then that Leamington-Banbury has an additional 2 services each way each day. Though it has 4tph, they're quite bunched up and therefore it presents a much less "turn up and go" service than a balanced 4tph, every 15 minutes, service might offer.

Bunching the 4tph being necessary to get decent freight paths through.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Bunching the 4tph being necessary to get decent freight paths through.

Couldn't the freight be fitted in such as to be looped at Fenny Compton?

A 4tph service is little use if it isn't regularly spaced.

The current difficulties extend from Leamington Spa and Banbury to and from Birmingham. The service isn't regularly spaced in any direction.

 

[Ianno87]

Couldn't the freight be fitted in such as to be looped at Fenny Compton?

By the time you've slowed down, been approach controlled stopped, then (into a different path) restarted and got back up to line speed you've consumed far more capacity overall than had you just kept going. Whilst also costing the freight operator a small fortune in fuel.

Fenny Compton is most useful if the excrement hits the proverbial in the West Midlands somewhere and you ned to hide a train out of the way.

A 4tph service is little use if it isn't regularly spaced.

The current difficulties extend from Leamington Spa and Banbury to and from Birmingham. The service isn't regularly spaced in any direction.

I see no shortage of passengers though? The good journey time, over this distance, more than outweighs the less than perfect spacing.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

By the time you've slowed down, been approach controlled stopped, then (into a different path) restarted and got back up to line speed you've consumed far more capacity overall than had you just kept going. Whilst also costing the freight operator a small fortune in fuel.

Fenny Compton is most useful if the excrement hits the proverbial in the West Midlands somewhere and you ned to hide a train out of the way.




I see no shortage of passengers though? The good journey time, over this distance, more than outweighs the less than perfect spacing.

The journey time is competitive if you're going from one station to another. If you're going to or from anywhere else it's not as attractive, due to the M40.

I can only speak for myself in saying that the poorly spaced service is almost no better than a 2tph service, and that's one thing that often puts me off using it.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. There is a very limited improvement on the Leamington-Banbury corridor, and an increase in the number of non-reservable services. That's more or less all there is!

 

[30907]

I'm mildly amused at the thought of Leamington-Banbury warranting a 4tph clockface service.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I'm mildly amused at the thought of Leamington-Banbury warranting a 4tph clockface service.

Well, all I'm saying is it seems wasteful with the current setup. So much potential and it's all down the drain for the sake of a few freight trains!

 

[The Planner]

Well, all I'm saying is it seems wasteful with the current setup. So much potential and it's all down the drain for the sake of a few freight trains!

How do you think the WCML north of Preston works?

 

[Ianno87]

Well, all I'm saying is it seems wasteful with the current setup. So much potential and it's all down the drain for the sake of a few freight trains!

I daresay the freight trains are more valuable....

 

[Starmill]

Of course the main net difference is then that Leamington-Banbury has an additional 2 services each way each day. Though it has 4tph, they're quite bunched up and therefore it presents a much less "turn up and go" service than a balanced 4tph, every 15 minutes, service might offer.

Bunching the 4tph being necessary to get decent freight paths through.

Couldn't the freight be fitted in such as to be looped at Fenny Compton?

A 4tph service is little use if it isn't regularly spaced.

The current difficulties extend from Leamington Spa and Banbury to and from Birmingham. The service isn't regularly spaced in any direction.

By the time you've slowed down, been approach controlled stopped, then (into a different path) restarted and got back up to line speed you've consumed far more capacity overall than had you just kept going. Whilst also costing the freight operator a small fortune in fuel.

Fenny Compton is most useful if the excrement hits the proverbial in the West Midlands somewhere and you ned to hide a train out of the way.




I see no shortage of passengers though? The good journey time, over this distance, more than outweighs the less than perfect spacing.

The journey time is competitive if you're going from one station to another. If you're going to or from anywhere else it's not as attractive, due to the M40.

I can only speak for myself in saying that the poorly spaced service is almost no better than a 2tph service, and that's one thing that often puts me off using it.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. There is a very limited improvement on the Leamington-Banbury corridor, and an increase in the number of non-reservable services. That's more or less all there is!

I'm mildly amused at the thought of Leamington-Banbury warranting a 4tph clockface service.

Well, all I'm saying is it seems wasteful with the current setup. So much potential and it's all down the drain for the sake of a few freight trains!

How do you think the WCML north of Preston works?

I daresay the freight trains are more valuable....

I love that you have all fallen for this disconnected from reality point, if it were true, and in so doing dragged the thread way off topic.

Banbury to Leamington Spa isn't poorly spaced at all. The departures northbound are approximately 10 past, half past, 20 to and on the hour. They vary during the day by a few minutes. A wait of over 20 minutes is unlikely. E.g. 0807, 0830, 0850, 0857.

Southbound times are slightly worse due to the proximity of the slow Birmingham to London service with the Bournemouth service. There is a routine wait of 22 minutes. I would strongly suggest this is entirely tolerable, while not quite perfect.

In both directions almost everyone will know when the trains are and therefore be waiting 5 minutes or less because they've arrived at the station right on time.

There are only freight trains in sporadic hours. I don't see how looping any freights would help at all, given solts at stations like Birmingham New Street and Reading are fixed and can't be changed. The service is spaced appropriately and runs at the appropriate frequency, under the constraints. I call fake news on the idea that a wait of 23 minutes rather than 15 puts people off using the railway. If it does I strongly recommend they shouldn't travel by train, as I don't see how the railway in this area can ever meet their expectations.

 

[Starmill]

How do you think the WCML north of Preston works?

Much, much less well for turn up and go traffic than Leamington Spa to Banbury!!!

 

[The Planner]

That isn't what I am on about, the timetable now, and after HS2 plonks itself will be a flight of passengers and whats left for freight as loops never wash their faces.

 

[duffield]

I love that you have all fallen for this disconnected from reality point, if it were true, and in so doing dragged the thread way off topic.

Banbury to Leamington Spa isn't poorly spaced at all. The departures northbound are approximately 10 past, half past, 20 to and on the hour. They vary during the day by a few minutes. A wait of over 20 minutes is unlikely. E.g. 0807, 0830, 0850, 0857.

Southbound times are slightly worse due to the proximity of the slow Birmingham to London service with the Bournemouth service. There is a routine wait of 22 minutes. I would strongly suggest this is entirely tolerable, while not quite perfect.

In both directions almost everyone will know when the trains are and therefore be waiting 5 minutes or less because they've arrived at the station right on time.

There are only freight trains in sporadic hours. I don't see how looping any freights would help at all, given solts at stations like Birmingham New Street and Reading are fixed and can't be changed. The service is spaced appropriately and runs at the appropriate frequency, under the constraints. I call fake news on the idea that a wait of 23 minutes rather than 15 puts people off using the railway. If it does I strongly recommend they shouldn't travel by train, as I don't see how the railway in this area can ever meet their expectations.

It's a lot more balanced than the service I use frequently - 4 trains an hour but 32 minutes gap, then 5, 8,15!

(Nottingham->Beeston in this case - I'm not complaining, I know there are good reasons!)

 

[Stopper]

It also shows the train from Edinburgh to Dunblane as leaving a minute later (1719), albeit then leaving Haymarket two minutes earlier (1723) and thankfully no longer waiting 13 minutes at Stirling, instead arriving in Bridge of Alan at 1811, rather than 1824...

So, with the slightly later departure in the morning from BofA, I save 15 minutes a day. Still not an improvement on the pre-Dec'18 timetable, though.

It is fairly bizarre that the EMU service will continue to be slower than the DMU one at peak times. Such a disappointing timetable ‘upgrade’ from ScotRail and one that seems to have been largely ignored.

 

[BMIFlyer]

All the ‘extra’ May 2019 TPE services that were scheduled will now start on 8 Sept, so that’s the Liverpool to Glasgow via WCML, and the Newcastle to Edinburgh extension.

2x class 185 returning to TPE from Northern from May timetable change and this is confirmed to be happening - Northern to use the class 195 on those services or if not ready they will use 3 car class 158’s.

The TPE calls at Bolton will NOT happen until 100mph running via Chorley has been approved (paperwork to do and test run data to be analysed first).

Expect to see some new trains in service sometime from June onwards. Depends on crew training.

 

[Mathew S]

All the ‘extra’ May 2019 TPE services that were scheduled will now start on 8 Sept, so that’s the Liverpool to Glasgow via WCML, and the Newcastle to Edinburgh extension.

2x class 185 returning to TPE from Northern from May timetable change and this is confirmed to be happening - Northern to use the class 195 on those services or if not ready they will use 3 car class 158’s.

The TPE calls at Bolton will NOT happen until 100mph running via Chorley has been approved (paperwork to do and test run data to be analysed first).

Expect to see some new trains in service sometime from June onwards. Depends on crew training.

Thank you, @BMIFlyer, for the update. Hugely appreciated.