Masks again

[Peterthegreat]

I think the mask effect will have very little influence on the election.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

But for the purposes of this thread, would a labour victory make such measures as masks less likely ?

Yes. The argument is it sends a message. That’s why the vote could be interesting.

 

[farleigh]

I'm reading that masks are compulsory on public transport.
Great.

Just claim exemption if challenged.

nothing they can do

 

[Peterthegreat]

I'm not so sure about that, but it may be a risk I am prepared to take. I will take each case on its own merits but I am absolutely very keen to punish the parties who called for, or introduced these measures.

It would not be much different, but see Wales for an idea of what we could have had in England (Wales never lifted the mask mandate, introduced vaccine passports, did all sorts of other insane restrictions and yet has higher cases than England and has done ever since restrictions were lifted in England). There is now way I can vote a party like that.


Agreed; I won't be voting for them, that's for sure.

And there is no way I could ever vote for a party where Boris Johnson is the leader.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not so sure about that, but it may be a risk I am prepared to take. I will take each case on its own merits but I am absolutely very keen to punish the parties who called for, or introduced these measures.

It would not be much different, but see Wales for an idea of what we could have had in England (Wales never lifted the mask mandate, introduced vaccine passports, did all sorts of other insane restrictions and yet has higher cases than England and has done ever since restrictions were lifted in England). There is now way I can vote a party like that.


Agreed; I won't be voting for them, that's for sure.

Indeed. Not just masks but restrictions more generally.

 

[Eyersey468]

Even if Labour was let in during the coming by elections they would not have a majority but they would scare the rest of the Conservatives to get writing to the 1922 Committee to trigger a challenge. Personally I would like to see someone like Sir Desmond Swayne as leader who has been consistently anti restriction and anti lockdown

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Do you trust the three weeks?

Three weeks to flatten the curve?

Boris speaks with forked tongue

No I don't trust the 3 weeks, I don't believe a word any of them say.

 

[brad465]

#DoNotComply is now widely trending on Twitter (no.2 in my visible trending table). Unsurprisingly a majority of top tweets under this hashtag are users criticising those for supporting what the hashtag says, but of course they are promoting it further by using it, so I'd argue their behaviour here is counterproductive to increasing compliance.

 

[Berliner]

The studies that indicate such high amounts are theoretical in nature and not based on real world evidence.

Labour are the party of restrictions and many of their most vocal members seem to love masks and other restrictions. A vote for Labour is a vote for lockdowns and masks; I will remember that at the ballot box and will not be voting for Labour any time soon.

I feel like I need to vote for almost any party that is against restrictions even if I disagree with many of their other policies, to send a message to the major parties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2021 ==


Tell your employer you are exempt. You have every right to certify yourself as exempt. Do not comply with nonsense.

This is how you end up with actual dictatorships, not the one you all think you're living in, but go ahead, vote for some lunatic anti-mask party and then see what else they bring in through the back door, you'll be responsible for the outcome, so I hope you hold your hands up and admit it if the worst should happen.

That aside, I don't accept that other countries care or know less about disabled people or abuse victims to make mask exemptions. Rather that they are more likely to follow a collective mindset and just wear one as it's all part of the greater good, or it is if you believe masks do anything, many countries populations do, or at the very least they don't get all in a tizzy about wearing one in places where they are asked to. The UK is inherently selfish. The best evidence is right here on this thread where many of you boast about flaunting the rules as you have decided you don't agree or scream about rushing to buy a lanyard which, as a direct result of those kinds of actions, has reduced its meaning to nothing. Yes, the mask might do nothing, but why are YOU (collective You) so special that you decide to ignore the rules everyone has been asked to follow? You aren't going to bring about the revolution by not wearing your mask, all you're going to do is increase the odds of bringing hassle to yourself and do someone else out of a lanyard (one of those people who you all claim this country looks out for more than others by allowing them an exemption). I would support mass flaunting of lockdown rules as that really is an infringement of human rights, but masks? I couldn't care less. Way bigger things to worry about.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn’t worry on that. The dis-satisfaction with Boris is largely for reasons not (directly) related to Covid, one of which being that he’s increasingly being seen as a liability. I say directly as there’s a lot of anger at many of the other things which have been slipped in off the back of it.

Anyone who has seen the Peppa Pig speech can do nothing other than cringe, and can hardly look at him and think he’s the best solution to the country’s many problems and issues.

Well, it would be interesting to see who the Tories would put in his place. A return to free market/austerity type policies might not go down too well with the electorate !

 

[haggishunter]

I don't understand what you are saying or what the irony is.

Why are you so keen for people to wear them? That is the more pertinent question; if you want to wear an effective mask, you would be protected and it would not make any difference to you what other people do. No-one can be made to wear one, whether you like that or not.

Shan't be wearing one myself. People who want to have been anyway.

There’s something of a ‘well cloth masks don’t do much to protect me so I won’t wear them’ vibe in this thread - if everyone around you was wearing one it would substantially reduce the risk of you contracting covid.

To much me, me, me, to be able too see a benefit for you from acting together.

Stand outside on a cold night with a head torch that shows up your breath, try it with and without a mask!

See the difference?

It’s not just viral particles caught in water vapour that get stopped. Like a snow flake going through a gap in a snow fence that is much bigger than the flake, it still gets caught in the drift the fence forms because of the resultant slowdown of the air passing through the fence. Wearing a face covering categorically will reduce viral spread, both by volume and distance from you.

 

[yorksrob]

This is how you end up with actual dictatorships, not the one you all think you're living in, but go ahead, vote for some lunatic anti-mask party and then see what else they bring in through the back door, you'll be responsible for the outcome, so I hope you hold your hands up and admit it if the worst should happen.

That aside, I don't accept that other countries care or know less about disabled people or abuse victims to make mask exemptions. Rather that they are more likely to follow a collective mindset and just wear one as it's all part of the greater good, or it is if you believe masks do anything, many countries populations do, or at the very least they don't get all in a tizzy about wearing one in places where they are asked to. The UK is inherently selfish. The best evidence is right here on this thread where many of you boast about flaunting the rules as you have decided you don't agree or scream about rushing to buy a lanyard which, as a direct result of those kinds of actions, has reduced its meaning to nothing. Yes, the mask might do nothing, but why are YOU (collective You) so special that you decide to ignore the rules everyone has been asked to follow? You aren't going to bring about the revolution by not wearing your mask, all you're going to do is increase the odds of bringing hassle to yourself and do someone else out of a lanyard (one of those people who you all claim this country looks out for more than others by allowing them an exemption). I would support mass flaunting of lockdown rules as that really is an infringement of human rights, but masks? I couldn't care less. Way bigger things to worry about.

Ah, so the UK is inherently selfish eh. The UK that has done more sequencing of the virus than most other countries and discovered the Kent variant and made it known internationally, to its own disadvantage. The UK that put is wealth and expertise into a vaccine that is easily transportable and cheap to use for the rest of the world.

I think I see where you're coming from.

 

[NorthKent1989]

There’s something of a ‘well cloth masks don’t do much to protect me so I won’t wear them’ vibe in this thread - if everyone around you was wearing one it would substantially reduce the risk of you contracting covid.

To much me, me, me, to be able too see a benefit for you from acting together.

Stand outside on a cold night with a head torch that shows up your breath, try it with and without a mask!

See the difference?

It’s not just viral particles caught in water vapour that get stopped. Like a snow flake going through a gap in a snow fence that is much bigger than the flake, it still gets caught in the drift the fence forms because of the resultant slowdown of the air passing through the fence. Wearing a face covering categorically will reduce viral spread, both by volume and distance from you.

Or we can just live with Covid and stop being fearful little children? I have no tolerance for this farce anymore

 

[Berliner]

Ah, so the UK is inherently selfish eh. The UK that has done more sequencing of the virus than most other countries and discovered the Kent variant and made it known internationally, to its own disadvantage. The UK that put is wealth and expertise into a vaccine that is easily transportable and cheap to use for the rest of the world.

I think I see where you're coming from.

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish. Those people who did those things you speak of may not be, or indeed were paid to do such things, but generally speaking, the UK has an incredibly selfish and indeed ignorant population.

 

[21C101]

I think the mask effect will have very little influence on the election.

If it leads to the Reform Party (Richard Tice) getting enough votes in the Bexley byelection that, if repeated at a general election, would cost the tories their majority in 2024 by splitting the Tory vote and letting Lab/Lib in; then this muzzle edict will have a great influence on future policy as Tory backbenchers take fright en-masse.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish. Those people who did those things you speak of may not be, or indeed were paid to do such things, but generally speaking, the UK has an incredibly selfish and indeed ignorant population.

What a laughably childish generalisation

 

[Berliner]

What a laughably childish generalisation

This thread is proving my comments to b very accurate, actually.

 

[Peterthegreat]

This thread is proving my comments to b very accurate, actually.

Totally agree.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish. Those people who did those things you speak of may not be, or indeed were paid to do such things, but generally speaking, the UK has an incredibly selfish and indeed ignorant population.

Good. It's about time the UK started looking after its own interests.

 

[birchesgreen]

This thread is proving my comments to b very accurate, actually.

Oh yes

 

[John Luxton]

Well, it would be interesting to see who the Tories would put in his place. A return to free market/austerity type policies might not go down too well with the electorate !

I was brought up a Tory on the basis you don't spend more than what you can sensibly fund without falling on the tax payer.

As a traditional conservative I would have last year told the vulnerable to stay at home and if necessarily paid them an allowance - but only on production of a medical certificate. The rest of us would have carried on as normal, no restrictions, no masks, and if the NHS couldn't cope so be it. It was Labour that invented it - let them take the blame if it went pear shaped.

There would be no monstrous Covid debt.

Yes it would have upset those of a left wing disposition but would have kept more Tories happy including this one.

Please bring back free market and austerity. Gets my vote.

 

[haggishunter]

Or we can just live with Covid and stop being fearful little children? I have no tolerance for this farce anymore

Living with covid is not letting it run riot, that is a recipe for a new lockdown.

 

[brad465]

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish. Those people who did those things you speak of may not be, or indeed were paid to do such things, but generally speaking, the UK has an incredibly selfish and indeed ignorant population.

Unless you demand the Government deeply reform education to the point people are not selfish, and change the economic system to one which doesn't actually need selfishness to survive, the population will not become less selfish. People are not born with a particular mindset, they're taught it through external influences. Target those influences, not the individuals guilty.

 

[yorksrob]

I was brought up a Tory on the basis you don't spend more than what you can sensibly fund without falling on the tax payer.

As a traditional conservative I would have last year told the vulnerable to stay at home and if necessarily paid them an allowance - but only on production of a medical certificate. The rest of us would have carried on as normal, no restrictions, no masks, and if the NHS couldn't cope so be it. It was Labour that invented it - let them take the blame if it went pear shaped.

There would be no monstrous Covid debt.

Yes it would have upset those of a left wing disposition but would have kept more Tories happy including this one.

Please bring back free market and austerity. Gets my vote.

Ah, now while I do have sympathies with the current Government, you do remind me why I'm not actually a Tory !

But we're not put on this earth to agree with eachother all the time

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2021 ==

This thread is proving my comments to b very accurate, actually.

I'm interested to know what utopia of selflessness you actually identify with ?

 

[Bungle73]

Living with covid is not letting it run riot, that is a recipe for a new lockdown.

Having restrictions is the very opposite of living with Covid. It's the antithesis of living it. We don't consider such restrictions necessary for any other virus or disease, so why this one?

 

[21C101]

What a laughably childish generalisation

But for such patronising and silly generations over the years the Eurosceptics would probably not have got the referendum win over the line.

I have to say I found these parts of his comments quite disturbing:

"Yes, the mask might do nothing, but why are YOU (collective You) so special that you decide to ignore the rules everyone has been asked to follow?"

"Rather that they [people in other countries] are more likely to follow a collective mindset and just wear one as it's all part of the greater good"

Thankfully, there are still many people in this country who still think for themselves and don't become sheep who let the state think for them.

We in the UK, almost to a man, follow unofficial rules that are not mandatory laws, when it is for the greater good (such as queuing at a bus stop in an orderly manner). We also follow sensible laws almost universally, far more than in mainland europe, when such laws are manifestly for the greater good (such as stopping at a zebra crossing - try crossing one in France or Italy).

What we don't do is blindly aquiesce to nonsense because some piece of paper says we must, and if our elected representatives persist with such nonsense then we can throw them out (as Mr Portillo discovered in 1997). Something virtually impossible in more enlightened places that have proportional representation with party lists.

Those who govern us know it which is why the mask laws have been drafted in the way that is virtually unenforcable, unless someone takes the proverbial. Those who would like draconian enforced collective measures (Labour) likely won't get another majority in Parliament in our lifetimes

 

[Dent]

Living with covid is not letting it run riot, that is a recipe for a new lockdown.

What do you propose?

 

[Berliner]

But for such patronising and silly generations over the years the Eurosceptics would probably not have got the referendum win over the line.

I have to say I found these parts of his comments quite disturbing:

"Yes, the mask might do nothing, but why are YOU (collective You) so special that you decide to ignore the rules everyone has been asked to follow?"

"Rather that they [people in other countries] are more likely to follow a collective mindset and just wear one as it's all part of the greater good"

Thankfully, there are still many people in this country who still think for themselves and don't become sheep who let the state think for them.

We in the UK, almost to a man, follow rules that are not mandatory laws, almost universally when it is for the greater good, such as queuing at a bus stop. We also follow sensible laws almost universally, far more than in mainland europe, where they are manifestly for the greater good (such as stopping at a zebra crossing - try crossing one in France or Italy).

What we don't do is blindly follow nonsense because some piece of paper says we must, and if our elected representatives persist with such nonsense then we can throw them out (as Mr Portillo discovered in 1997). Something virtually impossible in more enlightened places that have proportional representation with party lists.

Not sure what is disturbing you so much, but I shan't apologise. Mask-wearing is not the end of society as we know it and your selective quoting sadly fails to show that I am indeed against actual infringements on rights (lockdowns, families being kept apart, enforced quarantine), which mask-wearing is not, regardless of how much people here seem to think it is.

 

[bramling]

Yes, the UK is inherently selfish. Those people who did those things you speak of may not be, or indeed were paid to do such things, but generally speaking, the UK has an incredibly selfish and indeed ignorant population.

I’d rather be in the UK with a population who are apparently “inherently selfish” but by definition apparently capable of applying their own thought to a given situation. History contains numerous examples of countries where this hasn’t happened, including in Europe.

 

[High Dyke]

Three weeks to flatten the curve…

Behave yourselves or you don’t get Christmas…

Ah no loss there...

 

[3rd rail land]

I really despise wearing a mask or any face covering for that matter. I am tempted to claim exemption but probably won't and will probably just limit my time in shops and on public transport as much as practicably possible.

Unfortunately I don't drive so I will have to use public transport to get about but will try to walk as much as possible to avoid having o wear a mask any long than I absolutely have to.

Has Boris said which day the mask rules come into force? Every article I have seen says 'from next week' but doesn't specify the specific day.