Mark IV carriages: Could TPE use them?

[Bletchleyite]

I don't like Mk4s - they are rough riding cheap rubbish - but they are capacity, and XC direly needs that.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does XC currently have any routes that are 100% under the wires?

 

[Segedunum]

Does XC currently have any routes that are 100% under the wires?

The only viable flow I can think of that's wholly under the wires would be Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street. (the wires continue to Coventry and Bromsgrove but I can't see them being popular or practical termini)

 

[gimmea50anyday]

XC did used to run mk2 shuttles between Man and BHM which freed up a voyager or two for other services, but that was in the bad old days of Virgin, back when there was a country wide network...

 

[najaB]

I honestly like the MKIV quite a lot. I think the ride quality is superior to the VTEC Mk3s any day which I find using my laptop is very difficult due to the bouncing.

I don't like Mk4s - they are rough riding cheap rubbish - but they are capacity, and XC direly needs that.

Yet again proof that opinions are just that.

 

[Mordac]

Does XC currently have any routes that are 100% under the wires?

None as currently operated, but Mk. 4s can be run with any loco with enough ETS, they're not like Class 43s and HST coaches.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

None as currently operated, but Mk. 4s can be run with any loco with enough ETS, they're not like Class 43s and HST coaches.

Is swapping the DVT with a class 67 a possibility?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Since TPE have already got a rolling stock solution, could the MK4 sets not find better use with XC? Even if they just worked Doncaster-Newcastle with shortened 91 sets, that would free up Voyagers for the core without any route clearance issues.

Additionally, they could then also replace (or supplement) the HST's with 67's (going cheap) and MK4 sets which would improve station dwell times and probably helps with DDA compliance too.

The ScotRail/XC/GWR HST upgrades have probably killed off any possibility of the Mk4s being used elsewhere. Extra conversions are now cheap and easy and the trains would be ready for use basically everywhere on the network. Shortened HSTs will be able to run faster and cheaper than traditional loco haulage of coaches, even with a DVT at the other end.

 

[jopsuk]

As in have a 67 on one end and a 91 on the other? Would have thought that would be rather tricky to get to work. On the other hand I'd imagine converting the Mark 4 DVTs to work with 67s or 68s should be a similar job to doing the same to the Mark 3 DVTs

 

[Roast Veg]

Unfortunately the classic idea of a 67 and Mk4 rake would be painfully slow and noisy without removing about half of the carriages.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What was/is the design maximum lifespan of the Mk4s, the 91s and the DVTs?

 

[D365]

Thirty years for the Class 91.

 

[CosherB]

How many more times does it have to be posted that, even in crude terms, replacing a 6,500hp 91 with a 3,000hp 67 on a full Mk4 rake just isn't going to work as a viable high speed train? :roll:

 

[superalbs]

How many more times does it have to be posted that, even in crude terms, replacing a 6,500hp 91 with a 3,000hp 67 on a full Mk4 rake just isn't going to work as a viable high speed train? :roll:

How about three Class 67s?

 

[D365]

How many more times does it have to be posted that, even in crude terms, replacing a 6,500hp 91 with a 3,000hp 67 on a full Mk4 rake just isn't going to work as a viable high speed train? :roll:

It's quite mild for a SpacePhoenix 'suggestion'.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Thirty years for the Class 91.

Assuming that the Mk4s and the DVTs have the same design maximum lifespan then the 225 sets will probably all go to the scrapyard as the 800s replace them

 

[D365]

Assuming that the Mk4s and the DVTs have the same design maximum lifespan then the 225 sets will probably all go to the scrapyard as the 800s replace them

I specifically didn't mention them as they might last a little longer, seeing as they are 'passive' components.

 

[Nym]

I specifically didn't mention them as they might last a little longer, seeing as they are 'passive' components.

Other than the auxiliary supply, HVAC, doors, you know, them unimportant things?

 

[D365]

Other than the auxiliary supply, HVAC, doors, you know, them unimportant things?

Passive as in they don't provide traction.

 

[Nym]

They do keep the lights on though...

And the convertors are in that nice, difficult to support dark zone of the late 80s / early 90s. Probably with NOS only caps, crowbar and main invertors...

 

[GrimShady]

Yet again proof that opinions are just that.

One thing that does annoy me is that constant electronic whine they have.

 

[CosherB]

Assuming that the Mk4s and the DVTs have the same design maximum lifespan then the 225 sets will probably all go to the scrapyard as the 800s replace them

Why? Carefully looked after LHCS should last a lot longer than 35 years. Just look at Mk3s and HSTs ....

 

[Nym]

Why? Carefully looked after LHCS should last a lot longer than 35 years. Just look at Mk3s and HSTs ....

Mk.3 vehicles suffer a lot less obsolescence issues than Mk.4s, thanks to using rotating machines or a 3 phase supply...

 

[GrimShady]

Can someone explain why the MKIV is thought of as cheap rubbish and what the maintenance issues are with them?

Metro Cammell products were renowned as good were they not?

 

[Jonny]

Can someone explain why the MKIV is thought of as cheap rubbish and what the maintenance issues are with them?

Metro Cammell products were renowned as good were they not?

The interiors weren't exactly well specified, but the coaches themselves were pretty decent. They were also designed to fit the profile of a tilting train, although they were never fully equipped for it.

 

[Roast Veg]

The 91s have been run very hard throughout their lives and are definitely at end of life, but the Mk4s have plenty of use in them to come as long as locos with a high enough ETS rating and TDM exist. It wouldn't be the end of the world if they never saw 125mph again.

 

[GrimShady]

The interiors weren't exactly well specified, but the coaches themselves were pretty decent. They were also designed to fit the profile of a tilting train, although they were never fully equipped for it.

The original interiors were terrible but the Mallard upgrade seen to that. Id still rather travel in them than anything with an engine under the floor although as I said before being propelled sometimes can be uncomfortable.

 

[ainsworth74]

Discussion of the 800s is off-topic. Any further such posts will be deleted. Please use the relvent existing thread or start a new thread if there is not already one available.