Marches blocked yet again by A Broken Down Freight.

[merlodlliw]

Abergavenny was a 150...

Could that have been a third failure, I was on Wrexham General from 0645 to 0800 and the CIS screens were showing two freight failures on the marches,whether leaf fall or damp rails it resulted in late running of several trains.

0610 Shrewsbury to Wrexham General class 150 arrived 20 late.
0700 VT to Euston arrived 12 late,did not wait for commuters off the train from Shrewsbury and stations North.
Gerald arrived ten late awaiting the single track when the late VT was using it.
For some unknown reason ATW staff were telling people on platform three to catch Gerald and change at Shrewsbury,has the 0700 from Shrewsbury may not arrive even though the CIS on platform three was showing the class 158 was arriving on time, Has Gerald was departing the 158 from Shrewsbury arrived on time into platform three.

I was at Wrexham General with a colleague, on Chester/Shrewsbury rail users Association business regarding the proposed axing next May of the 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham service. I should add both of us then caught trains.

 

[Pacerpilot]

There must have been three failures as 6V22 and 6V71 were reported to me to be in trouble by the respective signallers. I was marooned behind them with the 4V59 coal empties.
Interestingly, I was brought to a stand at Marshbrook early one morning last week. The Bobby informed me that a DBS service to Dee Marsh was really struggling ahead on the climb to Church Stretton. In the end it took him well over and hour to make it to Shrewsbury. Expecting the worst, and with 2100t on the draw hook I set off..... Only to storm to the top of the gradient with no slip at all. How odd!
I can't speak for the 60s as I don't and have never signed them but one design flaw which affects the 66 is the ability to manually operate the Sanders is disabled about 9mph. It would be nice to throw a load of sand down for following services.

 

[Oxfordblues]

It seems rather ironic that FHH's Portbury-Rugeley coal trains are routed via the Marches Line to avoid the Lickey Incline. One of the anomalies of privatisation was that each train operator has had to provide its own separate banking engine at Bromsgrove as there are no longer any "common-user" locos. DB Schenker supplies one but Freightliner cannot justify the cost. So if that can't be done for the Lickey it seems unlikely anyone agreeing on a Hereford-based general purpose rescue engine.

 

[a good off]

Because the cross-over doesn't work properly?

Are all crossovers on the line including both the two at Woofferton OOU then?

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Where would you keep it?
Who would pay for it?

I'd keep it in the bay platform at Hereford. All operators who use the line should contribute for it via Network Rail.
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No room in the timetable.
Getting staff to man the cross-overs.

It isn't as simple as people think.

I'm not suggesting for one moment it is simple but at various crossovers on the North & West that are worked from signal boxes you don't need a points operator to cross a loco over and send it in to the failure. The timetable would be in pieces by that point anyway and the rescue loco would be running as 1Z99 from Hereford instead of places like Bristol, Newport or Crewe if there aren't any other freights around to steal locos off.

 

[craigybagel]

I don't believe any 150's failed on that day, there was however at least one (the early morning Hereford-Barry Island) stuck at Abergavenny behind one of the failed freight trains.

I'm not sure what use a rescue locomotive based at Hereford would be to be honest - most of the time's that freight fails down there, the train is still able to limp into the next loop, albeit at a reduced speed and causing a lot of chaos in the process, quicker than it would take to get a loco there from Hereford.

A lot of the of the trouble with freight trains on that line is actually caused by trains that are perfectly healthy. With 3 passenger services per 2 hours, long AB sections and lots of hills, it only takes a small delay to a freight service and an on time passenger train gets stuck behind it and finds itself very late by the time it gets to Shrewsbury/Newport. This is particulary bad for the northbound services as with the single track section Wrexham-Chester for Holyhead trains, and the need to cross the WCML on the flat at Crewe and then navigate a very congested railway from there to Piccadilly for the Manchesters, late running services are more likely to lose even more time than make any up.

IMO more loops/intermediate signals would do a lot more use for punctuality on the Marches than basing a thunderbird at Hereford.

 

[The Planner]

You wont get anymore loops and the resignalling allows for bi di running assuming it hasnt been binned under value management.

 

[craigybagel]

Indeed, and we're not going to get a Hereford thunderbird loco either......but speaking purely as someone who works the route, I know which I'd rather spend hypothetical non existant money on

Do the plans for the bi-di signalling include the ability to run bang road without having to make at least one shunt movement, unlike the resignalled Crewe-Shrewsbury section?

 

[PHILIPE]

We had one yesterday, Saturday (8th) which got a little further than the Marches and fell down at Wellington (Salop) for some 5 hours in the afternoon:=

662M 10.11 A.D.Jcn to Bescot which has been suggested was a China Clay train.

Trains terminated/re-started Shrewsbury and even one suggestion on another Forum that the ancient tried and trusted SLW was eventually instigated.

 

[paul1609]

You wont get anymore loops and the resignalling allows for bi di running assuming it hasnt been binned under value management.

The South east has plenty of bi directional signalling but NR seem to never use it.

 

[tsr]

The South east has plenty of bi directional signalling but NR seem to never use it.

It can take so long to implement and may have so few sections that it is sometimes actually more efficient during shorter incidents to just stack up a few trains and have the rest starting/terminating short!

For example, the SIMBIDS (or whatever it's called now) bi-directional signalling on the BML involves much, much lower capacity than you would normally find in normal running, so it is typically best to use it during a planned, properly structured short-term planned timetable, rather than during the chaos of a major incident - also where both lines on the route might even need to be blocked for at least short periods (eg. for working inside one of the numerous tunnels, or to attend to a train fault) anyway! Nonetheless, the system can be used to achieve the bare minimum of stock, train and passenger balancing if there are no other achievable options.

 

[Proud Salopian]

More trouble yesterday on the Welsh Marches thanks to a freight train.

What's the matter with them?

 

[TDK]

More trouble yesterday on the Welsh Marches thanks to a freight train.

What's the matter with them?

The freight companies are using old clapped out loco's, well the most recent failure was.
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The South east has plenty of bi directional signalling but NR seem to never use it.

I only know of a handful of bi-directions signalling not plenty

 

[merlodlliw]

More trouble yesterday on the Welsh Marches thanks to a freight train.

What's the matter with them?

Im forgetting if it was Wednesday or Thursday,it around 1830 when the down line towards Shrewsbury was blocked by a freight, Gerald was the first to suffer,Im told two hour delays occurred, ATW passengers bused North

 

[Gareth Marston]

I hear the RHTT come through Newtown every night twice in fact I'm high enough up the side of the valley to get the roar off the 97's as they open up. A quick check on real time trains shows they complete their circuits.

My colleague came over to talk yesterday he had been to Cardiff on Thursday and ended up waiting in Shrewsbury he was quite appalled at the squealing coming from one wagon bearing as it rumbled through the station, the maintaincence on the wagons is another issue there's often detached wagons at Coleham.

 

[herschell]

I just hope there'll be no trouble on the Welsh Marches when I go down to Cardiff on the 1st December, the 14.08 from Crewe, I've been on this line once and so far no trouble

 

[merlodlliw]

I just hope there'll be no trouble on the Welsh Marches when I go down to Cardiff on the 1st December, the 14.08 from Crewe, I've been on this line once and so far no trouble

The majority of problems appear to be on the down line which climbs between Newport and Shrewsbury, others will say if i am correct.

Good job few freights use Gresford Bank towards Wrexham.

 

[The Planner]

Because the freight along the Marches is predominantly loaded going north.

 

[merlodlliw]

Because the freight along the Marches is predominantly loaded going north.

agree except for the logs to Chirk

 

[HowardGWR]

agree except for the logs to Chirk

I must say I have difficulty thinking of the northern direction as being 'down'. I suppose Cardiff being the capital, whether trains came from London under the Severn tunnel, or from there, they end up going 'down'.

When I made the journey, earlier this year, the guard apologised for 'a freight train delaying us' and I wondered whether this was becoming an Arriva 'mantra'. We were rammed, at least to Abergavenny (and on the way back from Ruabon) and I just think not enough capacity is provided.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The majority of problems appear to be on the down line which climbs between Newport and Shrewsbury, others will say if i am correct.

It's the Up line northbound from Newport to Shrewsbury, from where it is Down to Chester and Crewe.
Thanks to the different world views of the GWR and LNWR.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I must say I have difficulty thinking of the northern direction as being 'down'. I suppose Cardiff being the capital, whether trains came from London under the Severn tunnel, or from there, they end up going 'down'.

When I made the journey, earlier this year, the guard apologised for 'a freight train delaying us' and I wondered whether this was becoming an Arriva 'mantra'. We were rammed, at least to Abergavenny (and on the way back from Ruabon) and I just think not enough capacity is provided.

I heard a conductor repeatedly trot out the freight train excuse when I knew for a fact we left Shrewsbury late because of an earlier ATW DMU failure and were a section behind a Northern Belle excursion.

 

[Llanigraham]

I must say I have difficulty thinking of the northern direction as being 'down'. I suppose Cardiff being the capital, whether trains came from London under the Severn tunnel, or from there, they end up going 'down'.

You want confusion?
North of Hereford the geographically up/northerly line is the UP, but south of there it is the opposite.
UP was generally towards London, and when it was built the line from Hereford to London went via Salop, so UP was up.
Cardiff has nothing to do with it.

 

[merlodlliw]

You want confusion?
North of Hereford the geographically up/northerly line is the UP, but south of there it is the opposite.
UP was generally towards London, and when it was built the line from Hereford to London went via Salop, so UP was up.
Cardiff has nothing to do with it.

To me has a laymen, I thought it followed the stagecoach system,stables and all that,still used, it was always up to London and down to Holyhead.
The first to use it was Bristol to London stagecoach, up to London,I agree its confusing, takes me back to Rhyl,when porter Charlie,got on the Dog & Bone to Chester control as it was known in the late 50s, "Hows the down news(2.08am Sunday morning ex Man Exchange/platform eleven) just past muspratts was the usual answer" it was due in Rhyl around 430am.

 

[trainophile]

Sinking heart as i'm sat on Hereford platform waiting for the 1108 to MAN and a long freightliner just came through. However it has stopped uptrack, so hopefully letting the passenger train go ahead.

 

[krus_aragon]

Sinking heart as i'm sat on Hereford platform waiting for the 1108 to MAN and a long freightliner just came through. However it has stopped uptrack, so hopefully letting the passenger train go ahead.

RTT shows both the Freightliner and your train as on schedule, with the Manchester service being let past at Hereford.

 

[trainophile]

RTT shows both the Freightliner and your train as on schedule, with the Manchester service being let past at Hereford.

Thanks, and sorry for delayed reply as in and out of signal (mostly out ). Best of luck to the train after mine then. I think it was coal in the wagons but not 100% sure about that.

 

[a good off]

agree except for the logs to Chirk

The logs from Teigngrace and Baglan Bay are loaded going North...

 

[berneyarms]

The next train was on time into Cardiff as well.

 

[Hynod]

Thanks, and sorry for delayed reply as in and out of signal (mostly out ). Best of luck to the train after mine then. I think it was coal in the wagons but not 100% sure about that.

5 FHH coal trains run everyday over this route? When was the last time one of these broke down?
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You want confusion?
North of Hereford the geographically up/northerly line is the UP, but south of there it is the opposite.
UP was generally towards London, and when it was built the line from Hereford to London went via Salop, so UP was up.
Cardiff has nothing to do with it.

Last time I checked

Newport to Shrewsbury is UP all the way. Shrewsbury to Newport is down, it doesn't change at Hereford.
Shrewsbury to Crewe Down, Crewe to Shrewsbury UP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My colleague came over to talk yesterday he had been to Cardiff on Thursday and ended up waiting in Shrewsbury he was quite appalled at the squealing coming from one wagon bearing as it rumbled through the station, the maintaincence on the wagons is another issue there's often detached wagons at Coleham.

Could that have been the track radius and the wheel screeching against that? (common and normal)
Brake blocks rubbing against wheels? (common and normal)
If a bearing is squealing it's usually dry and would overheat very quickly, a trackside piece of equipment would pick up on that's if it hadn't caught fire before that. These happen once in a rare occasion and it would not be due to lack of maintenance I can assure you of that.

The detached wagons at Coleham do not indicate poor maintenance either, usually a fault in the wagons brakes has caused an issue, the trackside equipment has detected it and measures have been taken by NR and the FOC to deal with it.

 

[trainophile]

We were 9 late into MAN, and crawled it from Crewe(ish) onwards. No idea why, presume signals against us for whatever reason. Won't blame this one on freight then .

The next train was on time into Cardiff as well.

I was heading north this morning, as was the Freightliner.

......................................................................

ETA: (ATW Journey Check)

18:30 Manchester Piccadilly to Carmarthen due 23:57
This train will be starting late from Manchester Piccadilly and is expected to be 5 minutes late.
This is due to Following a late running freight train.

I'd let them off 5 minutes!