Maps at Stations

[Popper]

I think we need to see maps like the below being put up large print at stations around the national rail system. This allows people to turn up to the station and know where to go and what operator to use. If these maps become standard then it will get rid of the view that some rail users are faced with that they can only get from A to B using one operator and possibly less convinient trains.


For smaller maps:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/nationalrailoperatorsmap.pdf

And for large maps (on the floor?) :
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/nationalrailnetworkmapZoom.pdf

I'll be interested to hear your views.

 

[HST Power]

I certainly think more stations should have them. I am running short of time so I will add my reasons later!

 

[Greenback]

More national and local maps would be good, but not necessarily those above! I find them cluttered and difficult to read due to the desire to show different operators.

A national rail map should be just that - national. Nost passengers don't care who runs the trains, or what colour they are. Personally, I thought the old BR network maps were great.

I don't really see the point of a poll. Do we really need a national map at Berney Arms or Falls of Cruachan? And there is no definition of what a main station is!

 

[Popper]

Sorry, Ok then Main Station is Station Classes A-C.

 

[Fred26]

*I can't open those maps*

'We' used to have a map up showing every NR station. It's a great map. The lines are different colours to show the different TOCs, too. It was taken down and was going to be binned, but I saved it and it's now on my wall at home. It's very handy.

I think the Network Southeast maps with the London area and tube on one side and a larger area on the other are great, as are the specific maps for the north west, Birmingham and such and such. I do think more stations, especially hub stations, should show the full map, with every station shown. The schematic map which only shows principal stations on routes isn't great.

 

[merlodlliw]

A dam good map was always with the Old BR timetable, on the reverse it had in depth maps of major Cities,

On thread one Map one shows a few minor stations,presume Ruabon is shown due to it being an interchange? out of interest I picked this.

Map two, is too in depth, more use for anoraks to get excited.

BR had the maps just right, & posted at every station.

But why the poll.
Bob

 

[Statto]

More national and local maps would be good, but not necessarily those above! I find them cluttered and difficult to read due to the desire to show different operators.

A national rail map should be just that - national. Nost passengers don't care who runs the trains, or what colour they are. Personally, I thought the old BR network maps were great.

I don't really see the point of a poll. Do we really need a national map at Berney Arms or Falls of Cruachan? And there is no definition of what a main station is!

The National map could be similar to the pull out one in the Great Britain Passenger Timetables, with local line maps.

Merseyrail have network maps posted on all there stations, i think GMPTE & all other PTEs have local rail maps for the PTE area posted on all there stations as well.

 

[Rhydgaled]

More national and local maps would be good, but not necessarily those above! I find them cluttered and difficult to read due to the desire to show different operators.

Agreed, I'd like to see maps at more stations, most in fact, but I don't think TOCs are really necessary to have on the map. The exception is large multi-platform interchanges, where it might be useful to know which TOC goes to where your going.

I'd rather see somthing that has one style of line and stations for those with hourly services, somthing less pronounced for 2-hourly and a dashed line for less than 2-hourly. Much more useful than knowing who's going to be running the service.

Back when SWT operated slammers and 5-WESes, I always liked the format of the London and South East map and would have liked one for the whole UK. Ithink, this is it. It has TOCs, but is alot clearer than the national maps. If it showed services instead of TOCs it might be more usefull, but perhaps too cluttered.

 

[tbtc]

Bit of a strange poll, I don't think anyone would suggest we have maps at *no* stations...

I think maps need to be:

1. Schematic. People can understand these better, look at how user friendly the London Underground map is!
2. Regional. No need for a nationwide map at 99% of stations (the likes of Birmingham New Street, sure), but something for a hundred mile/two hour radius would suit most journeys
3. Non TOC specific. The London/South East maps are great, but I think we need something neutral, not dominated by one TOC (look how skewed some TOC maps can be - I think there was a Central Trains one which gave the impression there only train line from Doncaster to Sheffield was via Lincoln, Nottingham, and Chesterfield!). TOC specific ones will need changing every time the franchise changes, or the TOC rebrands...

Maybe we could break the UK down into a dozen/twenty map "areas", one for each major urban connurbation (e.g. one based on Birmingham, one based on Manchester, one based on Glasgow, one based on Bristol, one based on Nottingham...) - most passengers in Sheffield want to see that there are train lines to Leeds/ London etc, but don't need detail of the Cornish branches/ West Highland line - a UK-wide map would be overkill at most stations.

 

[sprinterguy]

Putting franchise operators on the map would be a wasted exercise, as the franchises are re-let so frequently and at different times, with the boundaries constantly being redrawn, that a TOC specific map would quickly become incorrect.

I think that national rail maps at major stations would be a very good idea. Especially at those stations that are recognised as interchanges between different routes and services. The TOC specific maps that are carried on many franchises’ trains can be misleading as they only show the portion of the rail network operated by that particular franchise. That’s fair enough, but it would be good for passengers to be able to see “the bigger picture”, as many passengers will be travelling beyond the boundary of that franchise on other services. There’d be no need to have them at every small “shack” though.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd definitely like to see more maps at stations – if only to pass the time whilst waiting for a train. They would definitely be useful though, especially regional maps with all stations shown (agree that the current main stations only schematic isn’t that useful)

I don’t really see the point of doing it by operator though, who operates the service is irrelevant to most travellers (and can be very confusing when for example an operator shows their “Network Map” which omits other, potentially more practical, services). It would be better to have routes mapped, making it clear which stations have direct trains etc – quite a challenge to do for a large area though.

 

[Class172]

Interactive maps would be good, though that would be expensive

 

[MKB]

I think maps need to be:

1. Schematic.
2. Regional.
3. Non TOC specific.

I take the opposite view on all three points. I think people on this thread are approaching these maps from the point of view of someone who already knows a lot about the rail system. Plenty of times I've been overseas struggling to work out rail or bus routes, so I know what I find useful when I am a novice.

Firstly, schematic maps -- especially the Tube one -- are awful. What you actually need to know is which stations/stops are close to where you want to be. Anything that compromises the geography is bad. Having seen geographical tube maps, I find these infinitely superior.

While regional maps are useful to someone travelling within a region, a national network map is clearly trying to fulfill a different objective. If your travelling inter-regionally, trying to use two or more different regional maps would make life harder.

Lastly, in order to make use of the cheapest fares, it's essential to know how the journey is split across TOCs. My sister lives half-way between Nuneaton and Hinckley and recently needed to travel to Liverpool. She thought that Hinckley to Liverpool via Birmingham would be the obvious thing to do. A map that shows that Nuneaton to Liverpool via Stafford can be done on a single TOC offers clues to the fact that fares might be cheaper that way.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'd like to see maps of the station and the surroundings, not bothered about rail network maps

 

[ainsworth74]

Personally I would like to more maps like this (image link so slow internet users beware), love those maps think they're almost a form of art.

However moving onto the point of this thread I think more maps at stations are a good idea. I think that the best system would be for major stations (like Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, York and Newcastle) to have nationwide maps, I would suggest diagrammatic and not including individual operators as that confuses matters. At most other stations I would suggest smaller regional maps showing all stations up to around 2 hours away, these could also include indications as to what routes are served by different TOCs. I would also suggest more TOC specific maps, most Northern stations for instance include a map which shows their entire network which is certainly handy and it would be good to see more TOCs doing this (if most don't already).

 

[Ivo]

A good idea, but I really can't the point in installing them everywhere. Essentially anywhere that has a half-decent or better service (probably roughly two-hourly, or hourly in busy areas) should do, as well as every staffed station.

Sorry, Ok then Main Station is Station Classes A-C.

Be careful when referencing this. The categories are about as accurate as saying that tomatoes are vegetables. To give an example from my home town, Westcliff (annual usage of circa 1,000,000) is Category F. I don't think so somehow.

 

[Mojo]

Outside of urban areas and areas with high frequencies, how useful actually are these maps which have been attached?

They don't really help with journey planning as they give no indication of where one has to change or the frequencies of train services from each point. How many genuine passengers actually turn up at a railway station without planning their journey beforehand? On a few routes where it is well known there are frequent direct trains (eg. Birmingham to London) then probably yes, but if I'm going from Weymouth to Pwhelli then probably not.

 

[yorksrob]

I would say that every railway station should have a map along the lines of the BR network map, as well as the more local or regional map. First of all, there is the factor of advertising the service. If you have the vague idea of visiting Aunt Flo in Kilmarnock, it might actually prompt you to go by train if while waiting for a train one day, you actually see that there's a station there.

Secondly, there's the question of identity. The London Underground map is very important to that network's identity. It gives people a visual sense of where the railway actually goes. The same should go for the national railway network.

One of my (very few) criticism's of Network SouthEast was that on the Southern Region, stations tended to have the rather good NSE and London Connections maps prominently on display but no national network map, which I think was taking brand identity a bit too far. Of course, we have the same problem now times ten.

 

[moonrakerz]

Good idea, my vote would be for for something like the Network Rail timetable map - without the time table numbers.
My local station is FGW managed, the only map there is the SWT engineering works one - people going to Bristol/Cardiff/Portsmouth aren't really too fussed about delays between Esher and Ascot on a Sunday.......

 

[route101]

The National Rail map for the South East is very useful , v useful when i had a Travelcard .

 

[HST Power]

I think more stations need maps for the excact reason that Popper stated when he opened this thread-quicker services. I used to travel from Potters Bar at least once a week, and take the 1621, which called at all stations on the way to Letchworth. I would be at the station for 15:45 though the 16:21 was in my knowledge, the first available train.
One day, some guy from FCC walks up to me and says, 'You know, you can take the 1551 to Stevenage and change, then be home for 1621.'
So I wasted thirty five minutes every day! When I started to change, I saw that there was a junction at Hitchin, where some of the track went on to Peterborough and the rest to Cambridge. If a map had been up, I would've seen this, and as a regular passenger on the railways, probably gone to Stevenage to see if anything was available.

 

[tbtc]

I take the opposite view on all three points. I think people on this thread are approaching these maps from the point of view of someone who already knows a lot about the rail system. Plenty of times I've been overseas struggling to work out rail or bus routes, so I know what I find useful when I am a novice.

Firstly, schematic maps -- especially the Tube one -- are awful. What you actually need to know is which stations/stops are close to where you want to be. Anything that compromises the geography is bad. Having seen geographical tube maps, I find these infinitely superior.

While regional maps are useful to someone travelling within a region, a national network map is clearly trying to fulfill a different objective. If your travelling inter-regionally, trying to use two or more different regional maps would make life harder.

Lastly, in order to make use of the cheapest fares, it's essential to know how the journey is split across TOCs. My sister lives half-way between Nuneaton and Hinckley and recently needed to travel to Liverpool. She thought that Hinckley to Liverpool via Birmingham would be the obvious thing to do. A map that shows that Nuneaton to Liverpool via Stafford can be done on a single TOC offers clues to the fact that fares might be cheaper that way.

Interesting points.

I think there's a difference between maps of the rail "network" and maps of local areas (showing the train station in relation to the things around it)

Most of us are talking about the former here (showing people on platforms where they could travel to (though who really turns up at train stations unsure of whether there are trains to where they want to go), but there's also a need for maps showing this local station in relation to its surroundings.

For example, at Sheffield there's a need for a map showing Sheffield Station in relation to local roads/ buildings/ amenities.

However, I don't see a need for "local" information about other stations to be provided at Sheffield - showing Leeds on a map is sufficient - if you need to know where Leeds station is in relation to local Leeds landmarks then you'd find out when you get there.

I think that a simple line guide covers most people's journey needs (for a schematic map). If I want to go from Sheffield to Leeds, does it matter whether the line passes to the east or west of Wakefield? All that matters is that it goes from Sheffield to Leeds (and that there is a stop at Wakefield).

 

[Rhydgaled]

I would say that every railway station should have a map along the lines of the BR network map, as well as the more local or regional map. First of all, there is the factor of advertising the service. If you have the vague idea of visiting Aunt Flo in Kilmarnock, it might actually prompt you to go by train if while waiting for a train one day, you actually see that there's a station there.

A good point, alot of you are saying that most passengers will have planned their journey in advance, which is true, but if they see a map while waiting for a train they might one day remember that and take a trip by rail that they wouldn't have otherwise. It might also help educate about the layout of the network. For example, some imagined that extra trains to Fishguard would also go to Haverfordwest, if they saw a map they would see how daft that is when the bus is much more direct.

It's hard to say if a local or national map would be more useful. If you have both, it would help to have long distance bus services on the local map (Say you wanted to get to Aberaeron, Brecon or Cardigan this would be very useful). Again I say you need different styles of line to denote frequency.

 

[Popper]

I have just started making a National network map on my wall. I use Track Atlas as my geography guide but look at timetables to find the amount of trains which travel on each line per day (per direction.) I have currently just got past Plymouth from the west! It takes a long time to look through the timetables and make notes but perhaps I'll complete it one day.

TOCs are not shown.

Line Color Key:

Black= 1-10 tpd (per direction)
Black with perpendicular lines at 5mm intervals= 11-30 tpd (pd)
Red= 31-50 tpd (pd)
Red with perpendicular lines at 5mm intervals= 51 + tpd (pd)

 

[HST Power]

Interesting idea. I'd like to do something like that myself if I had the time.

 

[tbtc]

A good point, alot of you are saying that most passengers will have planned their journey in advance, which is true, but if they see a map while waiting for a train they might one day remember that and take a trip by rail that they wouldn't have otherwise

Interesting point. I think what'd be better would either be a scenic poster advertising a destination (e.g. http://www.travelpostersonline.com/british-railways-travel-art-poster-scarborough-england-488-p.asp) or a poster saying "Scarborough from only £10 return". Simply seeing it on a map wouldn't entice people IMHO

 

[HST Power]

That works every now and again, when they advertise cheap offers into London it gets my attention.

 

[Invincibles]

They should all have a massive network map in the tiles above the ticket offices and refreshment rooms like Manchester Victoria

 

[HST Power]

They should all have a massive network map in the tiles above the ticket offices and refreshment rooms like Manchester Victoria

I'd love that! Potters Bar would look so much better!

 

[LE Greys]

Personally I would like to more maps like this (image link so slow internet users beware), love those maps think they're almost a form of art.

I'd love to see tiled maps showing every railway in Britain, not just NR, but major preserved lines and some city metro lines as well. Trouble is, they would go out of date very quickly (like that one did). The geographically-accurate maps would be ideal for this, since they look much more artistic and don't show TOCs which change all the time. Maybe sacrifice a little detail in crowded areas, for which there are plenty of TOC-specific or Tube-style maps available anyway. I loved the old BR Network Map (used to have one up in my room as a poster) and want to see it everywhere.