Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

Speed increases might have to wait till the Baguley Fold/Ashton Moss resignalling.

Yes of course I had forgotten about that - you are almost certainly correct

 

[Chris125]

Various photos captioned 'Phase 5' have just appeared on Flickr courtesy of 141trackworker - looks like Miles Platting?


Phase 5 electrification work (base making) by 141trackworker, on Flickr


Phase 5 electrification work (base making) by 141trackworker, on Flickr

 

[GRALISTAIR]

That is a relief to be honest.

 

[snowball]

Daylight pictures by Freel07 on SSC. He only found evidence within the first half mile or so east from Victoria:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=141704315&postcount=3707

 

[snowball]

There's a discussion going on on SSC about feeder cables between Stalybridge and Manchester. Network Rail have applied for planning permission for a cable bridge over Clarence Street. See bottom half of page 186, continuing on to 187:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1265187&page=186

 

[Greybeard33]

From the Metrolink website:

There will be changes to some early morning Sunday services on 10 and 17 September.

Network Rail works to upgrade the Manchester to Stalybridge via Victoria rail line will affect the Bury, Rochdale via Oldham and East Didsbury line Metrolink services until approximately 8am.

The following tram services will run before 8am:

• Altrincham to Etihad Campus
• Ashton-under-Lyne to Eccles via MediaCityUK
• Central Park to Rochdale Town Centre
• East Didsbury to Piccadilly
• Manchester Airport to Deansgate-Castlefield
• Victoria to Piccadilly

The following bus services will also run until normal services resume on all lines:

• Bury to Victoria (calling at all stops except Market Street)
• Piccadilly to Central Park (calling at all stops except Market Street)

I guess these Metrolink possessions might be for 25kV electrification work on Miles Platting bank. There are already a few piled bases between the main line and the adjacent Metrolink line.

 

[Ploughman]

There is some work going on EAST of Stalybridge.
A big Road railer and trailers parked up trackside at an access point today.

Maybe nowt to do with Electrification and just maintenance work.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Various photos captioned 'Phase 5' have just appeared on Flickr courtesy of 141trackworker - looks like Miles Platting?


Phase 5 electrification work (base making) by 141trackworker, on Flickr


Phase 5 electrification work (base making) by 141trackworker, on Flickr

Dalton Street Access Point. Only about 800m from Victoria.

Those are the augered foundations for the only bit of Phase 5 wiring remaining in scope. The wires will finish about 50m country side of that location.

 

[snowball]

Is that here? Does that mean the wires will end at Rochdale Road bridge?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is that here? Does that mean the wires will end at Rochdale Road bridge?

Just enough to reverse EMUs east of the Victoria platforms, then.
At least it should be finished along with the Victoria-Blackpool work.
I suppose we could call it Transpennine West (West) electrification.

 

[Senex]

Just enough to reverse EMUs east of the Victoria platforms, then.
At least it should be finished along with the Victoria-Blackpool work.
I suppose we could call it Transpennine West (West) electrification.

Presumably Victoria's through platforms are reversibly signalled, so what's the advantage of taking a unit out on to one of the running lines to the east to reverse it? (There isn't a reversing siding there, is there?)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably Victoria's through platforms are reversibly signalled, so what's the advantage of taking a unit out on to one of the running lines to the east to reverse it? (There isn't a reversing siding there, is there?)

No sidings at all, just the 4 (reversible) running lines.
With the new wires you should to be able to work an EMU round to any platform (inc bays P1/2 if need be).
At least it will avoid the current restrictive setup where EMUs block their arrival platform (or shunt west from P3/4 into the Exchange turnback siding and back into P3/4).

 

[twpsaesneg]

Just enough to reverse EMUs east of the Victoria platforms, then.
At least it should be finished along with the Victoria-Blackpool work.
I suppose we could call it Transpennine West (West) electrification.

^^ This

It's still North West Electrification... TransPennine Route Upgrade has just gone more West for the West bit.

At the moment

 

[snowball]

Victoria to Rochdale Road is just enough to cover the stretch where the railway is close to Metrolink, and so bring out any problems of interference of either system's traction supply on the other's signalling.

 

[billh]

Victoria to Rochdale Road is just enough to cover the stretch where the railway is close to Metrolink, and so bring out any problems of interference of either system's traction supply on the other's signalling.

Has there not been a long term problem with Metrolink signalling around Pomona being affected by adjacent 25kV traction supply?Is the problem, if there is one, solved yet?

 

[snowball]

Has there not been a long term problem with Metrolink signalling around Pomona being affected by adjacent 25kV traction supply?Is the problem, if there is one, solved yet?

No idea, I've never seen it mentioned on Skyscrapercity where everything Metrolink is discussed in fine detail, and Freel07 and others seem to know a lot about the signalling.

 

[snowball]

Comment and pictures posted by Freel07 on SSC:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=142194426&postcount=3751

 

[edwin_m]

^^ This

It's still North West Electrification... TransPennine Route Upgrade has just gone more West for the West bit.

At the moment ??????

Midland Main Line and Cardiff-Swansea have "gone West", and Transpennine could yet follow.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As far as I could see today, there are 2 bases on the Up side and 5 on the Down, east of the current wiring limit at Victoria.
They are all clustered around the area where the Metrolink route dives under the main line - none near the station.

There is plenty of lineside work continuing towards Ashton, presumbly signalling related (cable ducts etc).
No change to line speeds after the Ashton work (which is still ongoing at the station).
Standing on the Ashton station there is a brand new railway in both directions - except for the semaphore distant signal.

 

[Greybeard33]

Has there not been a long term problem with Metrolink signalling around Pomona being affected by adjacent 25kV traction supply?Is the problem, if there is one, solved yet?

When control of the Metrolink Cornbrook Junction was transferred a few years ago from the original block signalling system to the Thales Tram Management System (TMS), there were several incidents of random, spurious conflict alerts, causing long delays to services. It was eventually found that the new axle detectors, which were immunised against the Metrolink DC traction current, were susceptible to electromagnetic interference from the 25kV AC overhead lines on the adjacent CLC line. Appropriate dual immunisation was applied and there has been no recurrence.

I do not see why there should be any reason to expect new EMC issues from 25kV electrification of the main line east of Victoria, which is no closer to the adjacent Metrolink line than at Cornbrook. The crossover between the Metrolink and Network Rail tracks at Victoria was disconnected some time ago, which should help minimise stray AC and DC return currents.

 

[snowball]

I do not see why there should be any reason to expect new EMC issues from 25kV electrification of the main line east of Victoria, which is no closer to the adjacent Metrolink line than at Cornbrook.

I agree but I think the rules require every location where the two are close to be tested.

 

[snowball]

The September update to the Enhancements Delivery Plan is up - and Stalybridge electrification appears to have been revived (see page 11)!

https://16cbgt3sbwr8204sf92da3xxc5m...ploads/2017/10/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf

Described as 20 May 2018 both as GRIP 6 completion (indicative) in one column, and Entry Into Service (Regulated Output) in another. Clearly that won't be met. There's a footnote saying JTI improvement included. Taken literally, I think that means Journey Time Improvement improvement included. They're going to improve the Journey Time Improvement.

 

[Mollman]

The September update to the Enhancements Delivery Plan is up - and Stalybridge electrification appears to have been revived (see page 11)!

https://16cbgt3sbwr8204sf92da3xxc5m...ploads/2017/10/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf

Described as 20 May 2018 both as GRIP 6 completion (indicative) in one column, and Entry Into Service (Regulated Output) in another. Clearly that won't be met. There's a footnote saying JTI improvement included. Taken literally, I think that means Journey Time Improvement improvement included. They're going to improve the Journey Time Improvement.

Sorry to disappoint you but it looks like electrification isn't to Stalybridge.
"25kV AC overhead electrification between Manchester Victoria and the Bromley Street (Manchester) area, new grid supply point at Stalybridge, associated power cable from Stalybridge to Ordsall Lane for Phases 4 and 5 NWEP and infrastructure improvements to give journey time savings."

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The September update to the Enhancements Delivery Plan is up - and Stalybridge electrification appears to have been revived (see page 11)!
Described as 20 May 2018 both as GRIP 6 completion (indicative) in one column, and Entry Into Service (Regulated Output) in another. Clearly that won't be met. There's a footnote saying JTI improvement included. Taken literally, I think that means Journey Time Improvement improvement included. They're going to improve the Journey Time Improvements.

The scope is now as far as "Bromley St (Manchester)", rather than Miles Platting.
But is also seems to include the new feeder at Stalybridge and its connection to Ordsall Lane, and "infrastructure improvements".
Everything except wiring presumably.
Manchester-Preston has gone tbc (was Dec 2017).

 

[snowball]

You're both right, and mikemcniven has mde the same point on Skyscrapercity. I hadn't noticed what it says on page 9 about Bromley Street. What it says there is consistent with what we've been hearing in recent months.

 

[Chester1]

The feeder station in Stalybridge is encouraging, they would only pay for it if they are very confident of eventually electrifying from Victoria and / or Piccadilly. Its the middle bit of the route I am concerned about!

 

[Starmill]

The feeder station in Stalybridge is encouraging, they would only pay for it if they are very confident of eventually electrifying from Victoria and / or Piccadilly. Its the middle bit of the route I am concerned about!

Hm I'm not sure this follows. This feeder is required to ensure there is sufficient power supply further west after the electrification of the Manchester - Preston section.

 

[Starmill]

Manchester-Preston has gone tbc (was Dec 2017).

Just to add, this note is also attached to it:
CP5: not later than May 2018, but update to follow detailed work with new franchise holders

 

[Elecman]

Indeed Stalybridge Feeder via a long cable through to Ordsall Lane MPATS thus making Ordsall Lane in effect a de facto Feeder station in the interim, is definately required for Manchester Preston etc. Catterall Feeder is also being uprated.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hm I'm not sure this follows. This feeder is required to ensure there is sufficient power supply further west after the electrification of the Manchester - Preston section.

True but a Grid Feeder takes a lot of planning and is expensive. At the minimum having the feeder in makes any future electrification massively easier and much easier to justify/business case wise - one less thing to do.