Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[Xenophon PCDGS]

People in Wilmslow want Metrolink as well, for goodness sake!

Has this matter ever been discussed by Cheshire East Council, who would be obliged to make financial contributions as Wilmslow is exterior to Greater Manchester.

One must ask where such an aspirational Metrolink line would go and Wilmslow is well served by heavy rail train services to Manchester Airport, Stockport and Manchester and those heavy rail lines are also used by container freightr trains.

 

[Techniquest]

Likewise with Wilmslow, I can't immediately think of how Metrolink could usefully serve the town. I'm not too well versed in the town, but I just don't see it being useful to have Metrolink there. Not to mention the long journey time, that would hardly be a fast journey from Wilmslow to central Manchester!

 

[jfollows]

Likewise with Wilmslow, I can't immediately think of how Metrolink could usefully serve the town. I'm not too well versed in the town, but I just don't see it being useful to have Metrolink there. Not to mention the long journey time, that would hardly be a fast journey from Wilmslow to central Manchester!

It's an utterly bonkers idea, and if I have given the impression that I support it in any way then I apologise, but there are plenty of people who advocate it, although in the most part without thinking about it before doing so. It's become "political" as I've already said, people see that it's improved things in Chorlton and similar places and then disengage logic and conclude that it's good anywhere.

 

[Techniquest]

It's an utterly bonkers idea, and if I have given the impression that I support it in any way then I apologise, but there are plenty of people who advocate it, although in the most part without thinking about it before doing so. It's become "political" as I've already said, people see that it's improved things in Chorlton and similar places and then disengage logic and conclude that it's good anywhere.

Don't worry, I didn't think you supported it I love Metrolink, but it isn't the solution for everything. If it meant the masses would stop overcrowding the always-busy TfW services between Manchester and Wilmslow, I'd be more in favour of it, but that's not going to happen. I can only imagine how long it would take to do Wilmslow to Deansgate on Metrolink!

Reaching Stockport makes a lot of sense to me, but Wilmslow is just crazy. I can think of better ideas, which are also crazy but would be more logical. Not by much, and it would remove certain lines from the mainline network and so on, but I don't think we'll ever see Metrolink in Wilmslow in my lifetime. A Metrolink tram-train, in somewhere like Wigan, is outrageous unlikely but I'd side with that over Wilmslow!

Not, before anyone asks, that I think Metrolink to Wigan is the best idea either!

 

[Greybeard33]

I do not see major benefits of extending Metrolink to Stockport town centre, given:

• the substantial infrastructure costs in building this extension from Parrs Wood, as the ex-MR/CLC alignment has been essentially destroyed east of this point and there is a need to cross the Mersey Valley by some means.
• the roundabout route of the old South District line into central Manchester, which with frequent stops takes 25 minutes from East Didsbury to St Peter's Square and would take about 35 minutes from Stockport.
• the relatively low demand for travel between South Manchester suburbs and Stockport.
• the existence of fast frequent trains from Stockport Edgeley station to Piccadilly, with some also calling at Oxford Road.

Concerns about Stockport Metropolitan Borough not gaining any benefit from Metrolink, but contributing financially to it, can be addressed by converting the existing heavy rail line via Reddish to Marple Rose Hill to Metrolink.

The new Astley Street bridge over the Mersey, adjacent to the new Stockport Interchange, already has passive provision for a Metrolink line.

The Metrolink extension would give a journey time from Stockport to Media City (a major employment centre and leisure attractor), changing at Cornbrook, significantly quicker than the current journey time via Piccadilly. Likewise to the Old Trafford sports grounds.

Travel between Chorlton/Didsbury and Stockport is currently mainly by car, due to the poor public transport options. A quick and frequent tram service might be expected to increase demand substantially, given the employment and shopping options Stockport offers.

 

[Chester1]

The new Astley Street bridge over the Mersey, adjacent to the new Stockport Interchange, already has passive provision for a Metrolink line.

The Metrolink extension would give a journey time from Stockport to Media City (a major employment centre and leisure attractor), changing at Cornbrook, significantly quicker than the current journey time via Piccadilly. Likewise to the Old Trafford sports grounds.

Travel between Chorlton/Didsbury and Stockport is currently mainly by car, due to the poor public transport options. A quick and frequent tram service might be expected to increase demand substantially, given the employment and shopping options Stockport offers.

There is a frequent bus service between Stockport and Didsbury, serving different areas. The primary source of additional passengers on this route would be people who would use Metrolink but are too snobbish to take a bus. I can't see how it would support more than 5tph, which is the approximate frequency of the bus service (which would inevitably need to be cut back). Its a similar situation with services to the Airport. The express bus service down the A6 and then the motorway provides a better journey than tram trains would. For me the best route for the Borough would be Piccadilly to Rose Hill via Bredbury. The town itself is well served by heavy rail and buses.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a frequent bus service between Stockport and Didsbury, serving different areas. The primary source of additional passengers on this route would be people who would use Metrolink but are too snobbish to take a bus. I can't see how it would support more than 5tph, which is the approximate frequency of the bus service (which would inevitably need to be cut back).

The people who use the 23 and 25 buses, for example, have intermediate bus stops serving the areas adjacent to Didsbury Road and in Heaton Moor and the Metrolink proposals would be no use to them.

The "snobbish" people you mention that are aversive to bus travel, on seeing the internal layout of the trams and the poor quality of seating offered to the travelling public, would be none too pleased.

 

[Chester1]

The people who use the 23 and 25 buses, for example, have intermediate bus stops serving the areas adjacent to Didsbury Road and in Heaton Moor and the Metrolink proposals would be no use to them.

The "snobbish" people you mention that are aversive to bus travel, on seeing the internal layout of the trams and the poor quality of seating offered to the travelling public, would be none too pleased.

There is a trend that some people will use light and heavy rail that would never use a bus. Its not about quality of seating and for most its not about travel sickness. Thatcher's quote of a man on a bus being a failure springs to mind. Buses are perceived by some as being for the old and the poor. I can't see the Stockport extension of the Didsbury line happening any time soon. It was cancelled in 2005 and not resurrected in the past 18 years because the business case isn't sufficient.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I do not see major benefits of extending Metrolink to Stockport town centre, given:

• the substantial infrastructure costs in building this extension from Parrs Wood, as the ex-MR/CLC alignment has been essentially destroyed east of this point and there is a need to cross the Mersey Valley by some means.
• the roundabout route of the old South District line into central Manchester, which with frequent stops takes 25 minutes from East Didsbury to St Peter's Square and would take about 35 minutes from Stockport.
• the relatively low demand for travel between South Manchester suburbs and Stockport.
• the existence of fast frequent trains from Stockport Edgeley station to Piccadilly, with some also calling at Oxford Road.

Concerns about Stockport Metropolitan Borough not gaining any benefit from Metrolink, but contributing financially to it, can be addressed by converting the existing heavy rail line via Reddish to Marple Rose Hill to Metrolink.

I live in South Manchester and work in Stockport, for me Metrolink will be brilliant, it currently takes me 40 minutes drive and about 1 and a half hours on two buses. Metrolink would take me about 50 minutes door to door, enough to make me think about ditching my car. I think the Metrolink would benefit Stockport a lot. The current bus services are frankly a joke, old rattly 15 year old buses that don't always turn up.

The train is now far too expensive for me to even consider, the cheapest way of doing it would be a peak all tram and train pass (even if it even exists) and that would cost close to £10. There is also the case of Metrolink makes things really easy. I often tend to go places that have a tram stop, where I wouldn't even consider if it I had to get a bus.

I have suggested before one way round the lack of Metrolink would be a shuttle service from Parrs Wood to Stockport which you can use on an existing tram pass with very few stops down Didsbury Road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2023 ==

The people who use the 23 and 25 buses, for example, have intermediate bus stops serving the areas adjacent to Didsbury Road and in Heaton Moor and the Metrolink proposals would be no use to them.

The "snobbish" people you mention that are aversive to bus travel, on seeing the internal layout of the trams and the poor quality of seating offered to the travelling public, would be none too pleased.

I am a semi frequent user of the 23 and 25, well about once every couple of months if I can't use my car for any reason. The buses are unreliable, old, cramped and noisy. I once was waiting nearly an hour for a bus at temporary bus station at Stockport, nothing turned up so gave up and got the 192 to the city centre then a tram home. Hopefully the Bee Network might improve things but for me bus travel is really the last resort, where I actually enjoy using the tram. I must admit since the capped fares though I do use the bus a bit more often than I used to. E.g the other night I was walking to the tram stop, a bus was passing so I thought I would just get on that. I wouldn't want to wait for that bus though because they are every 12 minutes but usually have a few services missed out, they are usually late where as the trams are every 3 minutes where I am.

 

[jfollows]

There is a trend that some people will use light and heavy rail that would never use a bus. Its not about quality of seating and for most its not about travel sickness. Thatcher's quote of a man on a bus being a failure springs to mind. Buses are perceived by some as being for the old and the poor. I can't see the Stockport extension of the Didsbury line happening any time soon. It was cancelled in 2005 and not resurrected in the past 18 years because the business case isn't sufficient.

I would, too, given the choice. The problem with the bus is that services get buggered around by the people who run them. They change the route less often I admit, but even there there's no guarantee like some rails in the middle of the road that it's not going to change. The 130 service through Wilmslow is a complete disaster with all the changes which only serve to put more people off using it which cause fewer services to run - but I'm off topic, sorry. I don't use bus services because they're too complicated for me, too many different operators, lack of inter-availability of tickets. I know Burnham's at last doing something about this, but it's too late for me. Tram, simple, no problem.

So I can see why people want Metrolink down "their" roads. It's not totally stupid for Stockport, I agree.

 

[Chester1]

I live in South Manchester and work in Stockport, for me Metrolink will be brilliant, it currently takes me 40 minutes drive and about 1 and a half hours on two buses. Metrolink would take me about 50 minutes door to door, enough to make me think about ditching my car. I think the Metrolink would benefit Stockport a lot. The current bus services are frankly a joke, old rattly 15 year old buses that don't always turn up.

The train is now far too expensive for me to even consider, the cheapest way of doing it would be a peak all tram and train pass (even if it even exists) and that would cost close to £10. There is also the case of Metrolink makes things really easy. I often tend to go places that have a tram stop, where I wouldn't even consider if it I had to get a bus.

I have suggested before one way round the lack of Metrolink would be a shuttle service from Parrs Wood to Stockport which you can use on an existing tram pass with very few stops down Didsbury Road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2023 ==



I am a semi frequent user of the 23 and 25, well about once every couple of months if I can't use my car for any reason. The buses are unreliable, old, cramped and noisy. I once was waiting nearly an hour for a bus at temporary bus station at Stockport, nothing turned up so gave up and got the 192 to the city centre then a tram home. Hopefully the Bee Network might improve things but for me bus travel is really the last resort, where I actually enjoy using the tram. I must admit since the capped fares though I do use the bus a bit more often than I used to. E.g the other night I was walking to the tram stop, a bus was passing so I thought I would just get on that. I wouldn't want to wait for that bus though because they are every 12 minutes but usually have a few services missed out, they are usually late where as the trams are every 3 minutes where I am.

Unless things have changed in the last two years the 23 and 25 are normal Stagecoach buses. If you find them old, crampt and noisy then you will never like buses.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am a semi frequent user of the 23 and 25, well about once every couple of months if I can't use my car for any reason. The buses are unreliable, old, cramped and noisy. I once was waiting nearly an hour for a bus at temporary bus station at Stockport, nothing turned up so gave up and got the 192 to the city centre then a tram home.

That may well be the case but it does not alter the fact that the proposed Metrolink does not serve the Heaton Moor area not the areas inside the Disbury Road area that are served by the 23 or 25 bus services. Stagecoach Manchester run both these bus services and your description of them being old, cramped and noisy are not what I have ever experienced. Regarding time factor, both these bus services cover the long route between Stockport and the Trafford Centre and there are a number of locations en route where traffic disruptions can cause delays.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Unless things have changed in the last two years the 23 and 25 are normal Stagecoach buses. If you find them old, crampt and noisy then you will never like buses.

Every one I have got over the past few years have been the 08 plates which are now 15 years old and starting to show it. They seem to run their oldest fleet on those routes. The Metrolink runs on a lot of services that have bus routes, the Ashton, Altrincham, Bury lines are pretty much follow a bus route with some variations yet the tram has proved far more popular than buses. The Ashton line is perhaps the weakest of those though due to its slow speed.

Nobody is saying lets scrap the buses and have Metrolink instead, the two need to compliment each other but my personal experience is that medium distance bus travel (about 9 miles in my case) is just not a great experience.

 

[Winthorpe]

The 23 and 25 bus services are excellent. For example, anyone living in Chorlton or Didsbury who wants to take a train south is better off taking the bus to Stockport and joining the train there. It’s much quicker than a tram to Piccadilly station.

The Metrolink will make the connection even better. And hopefully further revive Stockport centre.

 

[TheSmiths82]

The 23 and 25 bus services are excellent. For example, anyone living in Chorlton or Didsbury who wants to take a train south is better of taking the bus to Stockport and joining the train there. It’s much quicker than a tram to Piccadilly station.

The Metrolink will make the connection even better. And hopefully further revive Stockport centre.

It possibly depends on which end too, where I am going to Piccadilly is easier but the tram stop is not much further than the 23/25 stops so it is not like I have to pass the 23 stop to get the tram. I find in rush hour the bus can take 15 minutes just to get through Chorlton.

If I am going to Piccadilly station though depending on how much luggage I have I find the quickest way is to get off at Deansgate and walk via Granby Row, at least it feels quicker to me!

Many years ago I had to travel to Stoke a lot, so I timed it so it was quicker going to get the train from Piccadilly but going back I worked out that the 23 would always be there as soon as I got to Stockport bus station from the station so the 23/23A was quicker.

 

[Winthorpe]

It possibly depends on which end too, where I am going to Piccadilly is easier but the tram stop is not much further than the 23/25 stops so it is not like I have to pass the 23 stop to get the tram. I find in rush hour the bus can take 15 minutes just to get through Chorlton.

If I am going to Piccadilly station though depending on how much luggage I have I find the quickest way is to get off at Deansgate and walk via Granby Row, at least it feels quicker to me!

Many years ago I had to travel to Stoke a lot, so I timed it so it was quicker going to get the train from Piccadilly but going back I worked out that the 23 would always be there as soon as I got to Stockport bus station from the station so the 23/23A was quicker.

Yep. I should have mentioned that the bus is slower in the peak especially in school term time. But there’s not much in it, and the 23 is certainly quicker outside the peak.

The bus isn’t as frequent in late evenings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2023 ==

Also note that the ‘Four Banks’ junction is open again after nearly a year of roadworks involving temporary traffic lights.

 

[Chester1]

Every one I have got over the past few years have been the 08 plates which are now 15 years old and starting to show it. They seem to run their oldest fleet on those routes. The Metrolink runs on a lot of services that have bus routes, the Ashton, Altrincham, Bury lines are pretty much follow a bus route with some variations yet the tram has proved far more popular than buses. The Ashton line is perhaps the weakest of those though due to its slow speed.

Nobody is saying lets scrap the buses and have Metrolink instead, the two need to compliment each other but my personal experience is that medium distance bus travel (about 9 miles in my case) is just not a great experience.

I wouldn't notice what plates a bus has! Stagecoach buses in Manchester seem to have a very similar layout, seating and colour scheme. Maybe the older ones might be a little noiser. If Stagecoach is putting their oldest buses on the route its not really a good reflection on the demand for Didsbury - Stockport public transport. I think there would be enough passengers to support a single unit 5tph service like the last section of the Eccles line or the Trafford Park line. That isn’t sufficient to justify building a new line. The Eccles end of that line was mostly funded by the EU. The Trafford Park line cost the taxpayer £190m with landowners and businesses paying £160m. My money is on Rose Hill Marple over the town centre. There is more likely to be a central government contribution because it would free up capacity at Piccadilly.

 

[Winthorpe]

The 23/25 routes are very busy. Each runs every 20 minutes during the day, meaning every 10 minutes through the Stretford-Chorlton core.

Metrolink to Stockport is an easy win.

Lots of people will happily live in South Manchester and commute to Stockport if the Metrolink opens. No doubt about it.

I’m surprised it hasn’t been done already.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Lots of people will happily live in South Manchester and commute to Stockport if the Metrolink opens. No doubt about it.

I’m surprised it hasn’t been done already.

It will be the "transport-powers-that-be", not the general travelling public, who make the decision on which line opening takes priority.

 

[Winthorpe]

It will be the "transport-powers-that-be", not the general travelling public, who make the decision on which line opening takes priority.

That’s politics, I’m afraid. But it’s an easy win along an old railway alignment.

I agree with you, by the way.

The focus on this thread is Stockport to Manchester City centre. The benefit is actually the South Manchester suburbs to Stockport centre.

 

[Chester1]

The 23/25 routes are very busy. Each runs every 20 minutes during the day, meaning every 10 minutes through the Stretford-Chorlton core.

Metrolink to Stockport is an easy win.

Lots of people will happily live in South Manchester and commute to Stockport if the Metrolink opens. No doubt about it.

I’m surprised it hasn’t been done already.

That’s politics, I’m afraid. But it’s an easy win along an old railway alignment.

I agree with you, by the way.

The focus on this thread is Stockport to Manchester City centre. The benefit is actually the South Manchester suburbs to Stockport centre.

Its not an easy win at all. The old alignment only runs for less than half of the 2005 route and the more recent route proposed would involve the first Metrolink tram trains.

Is South Manchester to Stockport town centre a huge market? Stockport isn’t a big employment place like Trafford Park. I can't see it supporting more than a single tram 5tph. That isn't enough to justify the capital expenditure unless external funding is provided like Eccles and Trafford Park lines. The current big goal of TfGM is providing the towns in Manchester without a heavy or light rail link with one. Bury to Rochdale via Heywood is likely to be the next line if it has a positive business case.

 

[Winthorpe]

Its not an easy win at all. The old alignment only runs for less than half of the 2005 route and the more recent route proposed would involve the first Metrolink tram trains.

Is South Manchester to Stockport town centre a huge market? Stockport isn’t a big employment place like Trafford Park. I can't see it supporting more than a single tram 5tph. That isn't enough to justify the capital expenditure unless external funding is provided like Eccles and Trafford Park lines. The current big goal of TfGM is providing the towns in Manchester without a heavy or light rail link with one. Bury to Rochdale via Heywood is likely to be the next line if it has a positive business case.

Stockport is doing very well.

A commuter route to the suburbs will help a lot.

It is a massive hub for Cheshire commuters. I changed there for years and was astonished how many celebrities live nearby for the convenience. Vaughan and Flintoff for example from my area of interest in cricket.

Stockport would have a lot more offices given better connections

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stockport would have a lot more offices given better connections

Is it still the case that the Bredbury business estate still has many commercial organisations with offices and associated car parks upon it?

 

[Grimsby town]

With the Didsbury to Stockport Metrolink line I don't see an overriding benefit or passenger flow thar makes it worth while but I do see a lot of smaller benefits which make it worthwhile.

• Stockport is a significant bus interchange and will always have more services options than Parrs Wood, particularly after the new bus station. That means reducing the number of interchanges on orbital journeys.
• It would release seat capacity on rail services into Manchester as more people will use the cheaper orbital route rather than travelling through the city centre. That's particularly important after the loss of HS2 and if no alternative scheme is found.
• Stockport is starting to develop pretty quickly with development overspilling from Manchester City Centre. Metrolink helps encourage that development and the development makes the demand for Metrolink stronger.
• Journey time benefits particularly to places like Chorlton and Old Trafford and especially at peak times when congestion can be fairly bad.
• Diversionary routes for rail passengers in times of disruption. Sure buses can be used but one of the reasons people avoid buses is because they're confusing to use, particularly when not familiar with an area. It's far easier to identify a tram stop and understand the pricing options for example.
• Connection into a rail hub from South Manchester. Anecdotally I know people use taxis to Stockport railway station from Didsbury. Trams would likely be more attractive to these people.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

• Stockport is a significant bus interchange and will always have more services options than Parrs Wood, particularly after the new bus station. That means reducing the number of interchanges on orbital journeys.

Parrs Wood is a facility that offers bus services to Manchester by two different routes and has a bus service linkage to Cheadle. It must not be regarded as an outlier of Stockport Interchange.

 

[Grimsby town]

Parrs Wood is a facility that offers bus services to Manchester by two different routes and has a bus service linkage to Cheadle. It must not be regarded as an outlier of Stockport Interchange.

I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make here. Parrs Wood isn't badly served by buses but Stockport is better served. The line would be better connected to local bus services if it continued on to Stockport Interchange. That was my point.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make here. Parrs Wood isn't badly served by buses but Stockport is better served. The line would be better connected to local bus services if it continued on to Stockport Interchange. That was my point.

It was the suggestion that seemed to imply Parrs Wood was only considered in relation to bus service provision from there to Stockport, but besides the bus routes to Manchester and to Cheadle from there that I mentioned in my earlier posting, it is also well placed to serve East Didsbury railway station and East Didsbury Metrolink station.

 

[Chester1]

With the Didsbury to Stockport Metrolink line I don't see an overriding benefit or passenger flow thar makes it worth while but I do see a lot of smaller benefits which make it worthwhile.

• Stockport is a significant bus interchange and will always have more services options than Parrs Wood, particularly after the new bus station. That means reducing the number of interchanges on orbital journeys.
• It would release seat capacity on rail services into Manchester as more people will use the cheaper orbital route rather than travelling through the city centre. That's particularly important after the loss of HS2 and if no alternative scheme is found.
• Stockport is starting to develop pretty quickly with development overspilling from Manchester City Centre. Metrolink helps encourage that development and the development makes the demand for Metrolink stronger.
• Journey time benefits particularly to places like Chorlton and Old Trafford and especially at peak times when congestion can be fairly bad.
• Diversionary routes for rail passengers in times of disruption. Sure buses can be used but one of the reasons people avoid buses is because they're confusing to use, particularly when not familiar with an area. It's far easier to identify a tram stop and understand the pricing options for example.
• Connection into a rail hub from South Manchester. Anecdotally I know people use taxis to Stockport railway station from Didsbury. Trams would likely be more attractive to these people.

By the time a Metrolink line reaches Stockport its very likely Greater Manchester will have integrated tram and train fares and there will be no price difference. People who are price conscious will take the 192 than Metrolink because its likely to be cheaper (assuming London fare structures). Diversionary routes do not make a meaningful difference to business cases. Didsbury - Stockport does have a decent business case but I am not convinced it will be at the top of TfGM list. Its likely to be £300m for a single tram service 5tph.

Top of the list will probably be extending the airport line to Manchester Airport terminal 2, followed by Bury - Heywood - Rochdale tram train. If the central government wants to provide cash to free up heavy rail capacity at Piccadilly then Glossop and Rose Hill would take priority.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By the time a Metrolink line reaches Stockport its very likely Greater Manchester will have integrated tram and train fares and there will be no price difference. People who are price conscious will take the 192 than Metrolink because its likely to be cheaper.

I am going back to the time when station area zoning first came into force on the Manchester Metrolink and a family friend living in West Timperley found that Timperley/Navigation Road/ Altrincham were in Zone 4. She worked in central Manchester and always used a weekly ticket. She said at the time that the Arriva 263 bus service weekly ticket was considerably cheaper than the Timperley Zone 4 Metrolink weekly ticket and decided it was no bother to set off earlier and use the bus (there was a bus stop just round the corner where she lived). The Metrolink station was along Park Road, some distance away from her home.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I am going back to the time when station area zoning first came into force on the Manchester Metrolink and a family friend living in West Timperley found that Timperley/Navigation Road/ Altrincham were in Zone 4. She worked in central Manchester and always used a weekly ticket. She said at the time that the Arriva 263 bus service weekly ticket was considerably cheaper than the Timperley Zone 4 Metrolink weekly ticket and decided it was no bother to set off earlier and use the bus (there was a bus stop just round the corner where she lived). The Metrolink station was along Park Road, some distance away from her home.

She probably has a lot of patience, the 263 can be a pretty bad service. When I lived in that area for a while I would sometimes get the 263 and it wasn't very good. That said due to the single line running from Navigation Road the Metrolink can be quite slow from Altrincham to the city centre. Without the Metrolink I suspect there would be a a lot more traffic down the A56 corridor from Manchester to Altrincham.

Peak Metrolink prices are something that needs to be addressed too, but if Metrolink takes traffic of the road it should at least speed things up for the buses. I must admit as much as I want the Metrolink to come to Stockport I might find it is too expensive, although I am just about in walking distance of a zone 3 station (20 mins walk).