Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Disruption expected: Saturday 26 August
Information about the events and disruption around Greater Manchester on 26 August and how to keep you moving by bus, tram, train, cycling and walking tfgm.com

The Manchester Metrolink system has proved very useful on "rail-strike-Saturdays" for quite a number of area connections in and out of Manchester city centre from outlying areas.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Manchester: it's going to be busy on Saturday 26 August! Here's the headlines:

• football at Old Trafford
• Pride Parade in City centre
• Noel Gallagher at Wythenshawe Park

An amended service pattern will be in place to get you from A to B.

Basically trams every 15 mins (rather than every 12 minutes) with some extra services giving a 7.5 min service on some routes

Some shuttle buses from MUFC to city and from city and Sale to / from Wythenshawe Park

More info:

Disruption expected: Saturday 26 August​

Information about the events and disruption around Greater Manchester on 26 August and how to keep you moving by bus, tram, train, cycling and walking tfgm.com

There's also the train strike, Metrolink on many lines is just a slower alternative to the train (Rochdale, Airport, Altrincham, Ashton, Eccles) and I bet it'll be way busier during the strikes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's also the train strike, Metrolink on many lines is just a slower alternative to the train (Rochdale, Airport, Altrincham, Ashton, Eccles) and I bet it'll be way busier during the strikes.

With Manchester to Altrincham in mind, what is the train time frequency of service and journey time and the comparative tram time frequency service and journey time.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

With Manchester to Altrincham in mind, what is the train time frequency of service and journey time and the comparative tram time frequency service and journey time.

Train - 26 minutes, 1 per hour (1 per 2 hours on Sundays)
Tram - From Piccadilly - 34 minutes, 5 per hour. (1 per 12 mins)
From Deansgate - 23 minute, 10 per hour. (1 per 6 mins)

 

[TheSmiths82]

The main issue with the Eccles line is it just too slow. I really don't know why they decided to put so many stops in Salford Quays and it is perhaps a lesson for transport planners. People are (mostly) happy to walk a few minutes to a tram stop if it means a quicker service.

Manchester: it's going to be busy on Saturday 26 August! Here's the headlines:

• football at Old Trafford
• Pride Parade in City centre
• Noel Gallagher at Wythenshawe Park

An amended service pattern will be in place to get you from A to B.

Basically trams every 15 mins (rather than every 12 minutes) with some extra services giving a 7.5 min service on some routes

Some shuttle buses from MUFC to city and from city and Sale to / from Wythenshawe Park

More info:

Disruption expected: Saturday 26 August​

Information about the events and disruption around Greater Manchester on 26 August and how to keep you moving by bus, tram, train, cycling and walking tfgm.com

Why are they running less trams if there are going to be more people?

 

[JonathanH]

Why are they running less trams if there are going to be more people?

Running double trams on more services?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The main issue with the Eccles line is it just too slow. I really don't know why they decided to put so many stops in Salford Quays and it is perhaps a lesson for transport planners. People are (mostly) happy to walk a few minutes to a tram stop if it means a quicker service.

Have the stops in the Salford Quays area not proved to be useful for the people who work in the many companies in the region of those tram stops? If these stops are already in existence, are there plans afoot to close some of them, noting your comments above concerning walking?

 

[Chester1]

Eccles has gone from being a heavily deprived area to bang on the North West regional average so it looks to have actually been successful, its still slightly below average in health and crime but above average in education and with more affordable housing than average. The government actually turned it down for levelling up funding in 2022 by declaring it not deprived enough! (Category 2 when only Category 1 regions received funding that year)

Thats more of a coincidence not because of Metrolink running to Eccles. Pre Covid Eccles was mostly served by a single tram every 12 minutes. Metrolink to the Quays area helped Salford a lot and therefore helped Eccles. The part that goes from the Quays to Eccles must have the worst return rate of any part of Metrolink.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

Have the stops in the Salford Quays area not proved to be useful for the people who work in the many companies in the region of those tram stops? If these stops are already in existence, are there plans afoot to close some of them, noting your comments above concerning walking?

I haven't visited regular since the pandemic but Metrolink was very heavily used prior to it. The number of stops means that passengers can be spread out avoiding match day style over crowding of platforms every evening. Its not just about having shorter walks to work.

 

[1st Ade]

The Manchester Metrolink system has proved very useful on "rail-strike-Saturdays" for quite a number of area connections in and out of Manchester city centre from outlying areas.

Not just Saturdays - I live in Milton Keynes but we have offices in Manchester - quite a few times I've driven up on a rail strike day but rather than risk the city centre have hit "park and ride" from East Didsbury to either Media City or Monsall.

 

[507 001]

The Eccles line could be tidied up somewhat. Anchorage for example isn’t particularly busy, whereas Harbour City is.

I’d close both, and build a single new station on the other side of ‘The Quays’ road junction.

You could probably justify closing Broadway too.

The biggest issue with the Eccles Line is Media City. It is an operational nightmare.

 

[Greybeard33]

The Eccles line could be tidied up somewhat. Anchorage for example isn’t particularly busy, whereas Harbour City is.

I’d close both, and build a single new station on the other side of ‘The Quays’ road junction.

You could probably justify closing Broadway too.

The biggest issue with the Eccles Line is Media City. It is an operational nightmare.

Easily solved. Close the Media City branch and move the Broadway stop closer to the site of the current delta junction. The short walk would give people some healthy exercise, with the bonus of a more reliable service!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Easily solved. Close the Media City branch and move the Broadway stop closer to the site of the current delta junction. The short walk would give people some healthy exercise, with the bonus of a more reliable service!

Can you really think that the powers-that-be would actually take the decision close the Media City UK stop, that is ideally placed in a dockside location close to the location it purports to serve, when you consider the costs that were involved in building the line connection and the associated stop works? Has anyone close to the local transport source management heard of any recent deliberations on such a matter?

 

[Greybeard33]

Can you really think that the powers-that-be would actually take the decision close the Media City UK stop, that is ideally placed in a dockside location close to the location it purports to serve, when you consider the costs that were involved in building the line connection and the associated stop works?

Yes. The Media City branch was built 13 years ago and that is a sunk cost, whereas the operational cost of delays, junction maintenance and longer journey times from Eccles to Manchester is ongoing.

Today the GMCA and Salford Council are promoting Active Travel. The additional 300m walk to/from a relocated Media City stop on the Metrolink main line would be in line with that policy.

 

[507 001]

Easily solved. Close the Media City branch and move the Broadway stop closer to the site of the current delta junction. The short walk would give people some healthy exercise, with the bonus of a more reliable service!

Indeed! That would be the ideal world solution. A covered walkway would have sufficed.

There’s also now IWM in easy walking distance too.

Can you really think that the powers-that-be would actually take the decision close the Media City UK stop, that is ideally placed in a dockside location close to the location it purports to serve, when you consider the costs that were involved in building the line connection and the associated stop works? Has anyone close to the local transport source management heard of any recent deliberations on such a matter?

The point being that it should never have been built. Peel have a lot to answer for.

 

[WatcherZero]

Dont need to remove the stop, just need to simplify the junction. Rather than mechanical points on a triangular junction where two tracks become one just lay a second track, have trailing points on the platforms and lift the north-west chord. Forces every tram to stop at Mediacity but its by far the highest demand stop in the Quays anyway.

 

[adamedwards]

Has there ever been a plan to add a Radcliffe to Bolton branch following the line of the old railway which was planned to be part of PiccVic in the 1970s? I read that the route has been kept free from plans for housing. I'm guessing the issue with this route is who might then use it as a train Bolton to Manchester will always be faster.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has there ever been a plan to add a Radcliffe to Bolton branch following the line of the old railway which was planned to be part of PiccVic in the 1970s? I read that the route has been kept free from plans for housing. I'm guessing the issue with this route is who might then use it as a train Bolton to Manchester will always be faster.

What "might have been" in the heady days of past Manchester Metrolink expansion and the situation financially currently prevailing are two totally different scenarios.

 

[Greybeard33]

Has there ever been a plan to add a Radcliffe to Bolton branch following the line of the old railway which was planned to be part of PiccVic in the 1970s? I read that the route has been kept free from plans for housing. I'm guessing the issue with this route is who might then use it as a train Bolton to Manchester will always be faster.

IIRC the Radcliffe/Bury to Bolton proposal was allocated Restoring Your Railway funding to develop an outline business case. I do not know what progress has been made with that.

 

[WatcherZero]

It was sifted out pretty quick, the amount that the alignment that had been built on meant the required number of diversions around blockages were overwhelmingly expensive and so it didnt have a good enough business case to successfully progress from feasibility to a viable outline business case. The fact it was mostly a rural route and wouldn't have even line loadings was also cited with it being felt a more urban route with regular population centres along its length would have greatly benefited its business case and possibly allowed it to overcome the high construction cost.

 

[507 001]

Dont need to remove the stop, just need to simplify the junction. Rather than mechanical points on a triangular junction where two tracks become one just lay a second track, have trailing points on the platforms and lift the north-west chord. Forces every tram to stop at Mediacity but its by far the highest demand stop in the Quays anyway.

Completely undesirable as it adds an extra reversal to every service (running that way at present is causing issues through the daytime) and permanently increases the journey time to and from Eccles.

The idea of being able to bypass it is that during the busiest period of the day, it doesn’t affect the Eccles service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Completely undesirable as it adds an extra reversal to every service (running that way at present is causing issues through the daytime) and permanently increases the journey time to and from Eccles.

The idea of being able to bypass it is that during the busiest period of the day, it doesn’t affect the Eccles service.

Wasn't the idea originally that having a Media City UK tram stop an extra incentive in bringing large broadcasting organisations to this part of north-west England?

 

[507 001]

Wasn't the idea originally that having a Media City UK tram stop an extra incentive in bringing large broadcasting organisations to this part of north-west England?

Yes but having a dedicated station could have been done without the silly 200m extension.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Wasn't the idea originally that having a Media City UK tram stop an extra incentive in bringing large broadcasting organisations to this part of north-west England?

There used to be a seperate service from Piccadilly (I think!) to MediaCityUK, and then Ashton to Eccles, however it's just an Ashton to Eccles via MediaCityUK service.

Which is mental as the Eccles Line suffers from chronic overcrowding. There are some doubles on there, but not enough.

Trafford Centre trams also need to be doubles too I think, and not just for Wharfside on match days.

 

[Chester1]

There used to be a seperate service from Piccadilly (I think!) to MediaCityUK, and then Ashton to Eccles, however it's just an Ashton to Eccles via MediaCityUK service.

Which is mental as the Eccles Line suffers from chronic overcrowding. There are some doubles on there, but not enough.

Trafford Centre trams also need to be doubles too I think, and not just for Wharfside on match days.

Eccles would probably be fine with all double trams. The demand is lower than to the quays and Media City is a convenient point to reverse the second service. When I regularly visited it was often a double to Media City and a single to Eccles and I thought it should have been the other way around. If they are introducing the second service again, that might be the best option.

 

[Howardh]

IIRC the Radcliffe/Bury to Bolton proposal was allocated Restoring Your Railway funding to develop an outline business case. I do not know what progress has been made with that.

Some of the land has now (I believe) been used for housing - either built or to be built.

Not quite sure how metrolink coming to Bolton via Radcliffe would be much use, it has to be Bolton - Bury or not at all. However as south Bolton is so badly connected, I'd like to see either the metro arrive there via disused railways or, as a tidy-up, dedicated bus lanes which would meet the V1/2 routes.

 

[Purple Train]

Having just enjoyed my first ride on the system for the best part of a decade, may I ask what the usual basic service pattern is? The maps in the stations didn't give any clues to frequency, and I'm interested to see what the particular flows that generate the most traffic are. I'd have expected Piccadilly-Victoria to be up there, but my tram was surprisingly quiet, despite it being Pride weekend.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having just enjoyed my first ride on the system for the best part of a decade, may I ask what the usual basic service pattern is? The maps in the stations didn't give any clues to frequency, and I'm interested to see what the particular flows that generate the most traffic are. I'd have expected Piccadilly-Victoria to be up there, but my tram was surprisingly quiet, despite it being Pride weekend.

I think the free bus routes from Piccadilly station approach have one of those journeys that goes from Piccadilly station to Victoria station.

 

[Chester1]

Having just enjoyed my first ride on the system for the best part of a decade, may I ask what the usual basic service pattern is? The maps in the stations didn't give any clues to frequency, and I'm interested to see what the particular flows that generate the most traffic are. I'd have expected Piccadilly-Victoria to be up there, but my tram was surprisingly quiet, despite it being Pride weekend.

Each coloured line on the metrolink map is 5 trams per hour each way. This means higher frequencies on many sections. The core section is Cornbrook to Deansgate-Castlefield at 35tph. Before the pandemic there was an Eithad - Media city service that was extended to Ashton I think in 2019. Its being reintroduced and the Trafford Park Line is extending through to Crumpsall. This will mean Cornbrook to St Peter's Square will run at 40tph (maximum capacity of Deansgate to St Peters Square). Individual flows are harder to calculate because some trams are single and others double.

 

[Class 466]

The original thread has been closed - so this is to kick start discussion/comment

I am told the current peak vehicle requirement is 107 trams for the network - from a fleet of 147.
From January, this rises to 117 as the system recovers from covid - both in passenger numbers and staff recruitment

Could this be the return of the Etihad - Media City peak service? or more doubling up on existing lines??

According to British trams on line http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/fleets/manchester.html there are a number of trams under longterm repair:
3005 (last ran February 2020), 3015 (last ran January 2021), 3027 (last ran May 2019), and 3100 (last ran July 2022) are out of service long-term requiring repairs before returning to action. 3027 and 3100 are at Queens Road Depot with all others at Trafford Depot.
Two trams have rejoined the available fleet at the end of July: 3099 was the first to return to action and was followed quite quickly by 3065.
http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=50439

It’s always fun passing Queens Road in the Morning cramped into a single unit on the Bury-Piccadilly circuits when you see plenty of trams sat in the depot doing nothing all day

 

[Purple Train]

Each coloured mine on the metrolink map is 5 trams per hour each way. This means higher frequencies on many sections. The core section is Cornbrook to Deansgate-Castlefield at 35tph. Before the pandemic there was an Eithad - Media city service that was extended to Ashton I think in 2019. Its being reintroduced and the Trafford Park Line is extending through to Crumpsall. This will mean Cornbrook to St Peter's Square will run at 40tph (maximum capacity of Deansgate to St Peters Square). Individual flows are harder to calculate because some trams are single and others double.

Thanks

I think the free bus routes from Piccadilly station approach have one of those journeys that goes from Piccadilly station to Victoria station.

I see. We had Zone 1 tickets anyway and I had been specifically informed that the tram was "cool", so it didn't make a difference in our case.