Manchester Metrolink master thread

[northwichcat]

Buying tickets from a machine on the tram in Europe is usually only permitted if the stop you are boarding at doesn't have ticket selling facilities.

Real crush loadings on Metrolink are usually only after special events. The rest of the time the number of standees is significantly less than what Metrolink claim they can hold. They look worse than they are because of passengers standing in the doorways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For outer-GM journeys, through ticketing is avialable from national stations to Metrolink stops but it seems to be an add-on to Manc STNS fares, so its really not useful

If you're starting at stations between Mouldsworth and Ashley it is usually cheaper to buy a through ticket to a Metrolink stop than buying two tickets. This means someone in Sale making a return journey to Knutsford has to pay more than some in Knutsford making a return journey to Sale.

Not having to buy a new ticket at your interchange point is useful, especially to those who miss a tram while buying a ticket or aren't familiar with the interface on the Metrolink TVMs.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Can you unquote the pictures because it makes the thread unnecessarily long

All done

There's a few things that don't cause me to be envious of Metrolink. Take today, I arrived at the stop to find a tram pulling in, by the time the machine had spat out my ticket the tram was gone. 12 minutes wait on a windy platform is not much fun (ok, I think the line I was using was supposed to have a 6 minute frequency but I think I waited more than that before giving up and going back to the flat to wait for 20mins after deciding I'd miss the hourly frequency train I was aiming for if I waited any longer for the next tram).

This is where the Sheffield tram system is up on the Metrolink as all Sheffield trams have conductors on board, dont have the figures to hand but when Stagecoach took over the tram from the failings of South Yorkshire PTE passgenger numbers shot up.

 

[edwin_m]

They do this in Cologne. We went there for the Christmas Markets a few years ago and used the trams as a park and ride. There was more than one ticket machine and, in spite of heavy loadings, everyine I saw managed to get a ticket.

There is also the risk that if the inspectors get on there will be a rush to buy tickets, and if the inspectors shut down the ticket machines some people who have legitimately just boarded may find themselves without one.

 

[WatcherZero]

All done



This is where the Sheffield tram system is up on the Metrolink as all Sheffield trams have conductors on board, dont have the figures to hand but when Stagecoach took over the tram from the failings of South Yorkshire PTE passgenger numbers shot up.

Didnt they also massivley lower fares as the construction cost was written off they no longer had to repay it through fare revenue?

 

[familyguy99]

Here this small update on Oldham Town Centre section that I took this afternoon.

Overhead wires now run along Union Street in Oldham


Metrolink work on Union Street (Oldham)


Metrolink line on Union Street Oldham

King Street stop from Mecca Bingo car park


looking at King Street stop

Metrolink signal are switch on - on Manchester Street.


Metrolink signal on Manchester Street

Line heading off to Westwood stop


Metrolink line heading to Westwood 2

This is where line will turn off to Town Centre come 2014.


Metrolink work in Werneth area

3008 Metrolink tram just leave Freehold Metrolink stop


Metrolink 3008 tram

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/sets/72157632535235149/

^^ Other picture in Oldham that I took today can be found on this link.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I know there was talk of keeping the Metrolink route along the path of the old heavy-rail line open after the Oldham town centre diversion opens, but this has now been ruled out... Are there any options on the table for what to do with this stretch of route? Perhaps a cycleway would be an option?

 

[WatcherZero]

Never been planned to keep the stretch due to the maintenence costs of the tunnel. Local councillors have certainly called for it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was certainly aware that there were some calls to keep the stretch open to allow a faster journer from Rochdale by allowing some trams to avoid the Oldham town centre section- though if I remember rightly TfGM were understandably not keen on this idea due to the cost (though I wasn't sure of the details of their concerns). Is it therefore likely that the trackbed will be sold off for redevelopment once phase 3b is complete? My suggestion of a cycleway was simply to keep the corridor available in some way for transport.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Didnt they also massivley lower fares as the construction cost was written off they no longer had to repay it through fare revenue?

I think so sort of deal was done, however they ( Stagecoach ) have had to cough up in resent months towards the tram rail replacement programe.

I still stick with my first point those that passgenger number also rose due to Stagecoach simplifying the ticket system and bringing back the conductors

 

[edwin_m]

At the same time Nottingham is about to change from a conductor system to a Metrolink-type system of buy before you board.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

At the same time Nottingham is about to change from a conductor system to a Metrolink-type system of buy before you board.

Wont that be the kiss of death ?

 

[WatcherZero]

I was certainly aware that there were some calls to keep the stretch open to allow a faster journer from Rochdale by allowing some trams to avoid the Oldham town centre section- though if I remember rightly TfGM were understandably not keen on this idea due to the cost (though I wasn't sure of the details of their concerns). Is it therefore likely that the trackbed will be sold off for redevelopment once phase 3b is complete? My suggestion of a cycleway was simply to keep the corridor available in some way for transport.

Dont know any plans for the trackbed itself, they tried to keep as much older rail as possible on this stretch and the TVM's, track and line side equipment they did use is to be recycled on the Airport line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Overhead wires now run along Union Street in Oldham.

Have you any idea when Union Street will be restored back to a normal status ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Light rail statistics for 2012/13 published.

Summary
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...06/light-rail-and-tram-statistics-2012-13.pdf

Tables
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/207007/light-rail-and-tram-2012-13.zip

Shocking thing is a large decline in Nottingham and in general a decline everywhere apart from London/Manchester/Blackpool.

 

[northwichcat]

Wont that be the kiss of death ?

Nottingham's patronage level isn't really that bad. The problem is they drew up a forecast which had an unrealistic level of growth. Metrolink already had a load of passengers before it started as they took over the BR passengers on the Altrincham and Bury lines, then much later took over the Northern passengers on the Oldham Loop. Nottingham didn't take over passengers they had to attract them.

East Didsbury is the first place where Metrolink goes head-to-head with heavy rail so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. (Rochdale-Manchester is much quicker by heavy rail while for Altrincham-Manchester heavy rail has to use the congested Stockport-Manchester line.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

East Didsbury is the first place where Metrolink goes head-to-head with heavy rail so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. (Rochdale-Manchester is much quicker by heavy rail while for Altrincham-Manchester heavy rail has to use the congested Stockport-Manchester line.)

Looking at the newly-opened Metrolink section from the Chorlton area to East Didsbury, the matter of how Metrolink will perform against the regular numerous bus services on that section of that route will be of interest, as on the East Manchester line, there is only a comparison with the 216 service with which to really compare matters.

 

[transmanche]

Nottingham's patronage level isn't really that bad.

But has been falling, from a high of 10.2 million in 2007/2008 down to 7.4 million in 2012/2013.

Source: DfT.

 

[gnolife]

Looking at the newly-opened Metrolink section from the Chorlton area to East Didsbury, the matter of how Metrolink will perform against the regular numerous bus services on that section of that route will be of interest, as on the East Manchester line, there is only a comparison with the 216 service with which to really compare matters.

I think that both bus route 23/23A and the tram will co-exist nicely, with the 23/23A travelling via Southern Cemetery rather than Withington. I think that the 84 might be in trouble though, given that it will be stopping very close to all the tram stops between East Didsbury and Market Street with the exception of West Didsbury and Firswood. Its only unique points are that it serves Arrowfield Road ( which could easily be covered with an extension to route 85 or 86) , and that it connects Withington Hospital and East Didsbury with Reddish, which, in my experience, tends to be dead as a dodo by that point anyway.

I'm wondering if, when the Ashton line is complete, the 216 might end up significantly reduced (but probably not withdrawn), and also if the 219 will be able to maintain it's current 10 minute frequency.

 

[familyguy99]

Have you any idea when Union Street will be restored back to a normal status ?

^^ I hope u mean road then shops as it just full of takeaways on Union Street, as for road I'm unsure be rough guess maybe Oct/November time I say.

Also in Oldham the overhead wires now reach new Oldham Mumps stop mean wires run all way along from Werneth to Mumps now, very good progress on Oldham 3B line

I'm wondering if, when the Ashton line is complete, the 216 might end up significantly reduced (but probably not withdrawn), and also if the 219 will be able to maintain it's current 10 minute frequency.

^^ Why will Stagecoach reduced 216 bus service once line to Ashton opens? I'm sure Stagecoach would love to keep 216 bus service as it is now to complete against Metrolink and hope passenger how use 216 bus service still use it once Metrolink line opens.

 

[northwichcat]

Metrolink are suspending afternoon/evening Media City-Piccadilly shuttles most of this week to use the trams for extra capacity on services serving the Eithad stadium ahead of Robbie Williams concerts.

Someone previously posted on this thread that Peel Holdings fund the MediaCity-Cornbrook shuttles (that currently run to Piccadilly) so will Metrolink be issuing them a refund for not operating the services?

 

[Manchester77]

Well the 216 will be replicated by the EML however the 216 provides more stops. I'd like to see it become structured simular to a railway - the metrolink as the 'fast' service serving general areas, the bus service as the 'stopping' service calling at more local stops. It might already be but I'm not from that area so...

If metrolink and stagecoach manchester can timetable their services so that say when a tram comes in a bus comes into the nearest stop providing a connection. The 216 is every 7 minutes and the EML will be every 6 minutes so surely with the more frequent tram service you could reduce the bus route to 12 or increase to 6 and factor in connection the surely something could happen?


Or am I living in dreamland?


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They don't fund the media city service they paid for the spur and the additional trams for services to Cornbrook. The rest of it is all down to metrolink

 

[radamfi]

Why will Stagecoach reduced 216 bus service once line to Ashton opens? I'm sure Stagecoach would love to keep 216 bus service as it is now to complete against Metrolink and hope passenger how use 216 bus service still use it once Metrolink line opens.

Stagecoach will reduce the frequency if they find that their buses are running much more empty due to passengers transferring to the tram. However, I don't think that is likely given the big difference in fares and small difference in journey time.

Services were disrupted yet again today by a failed tram. But it wasn't an old one - it was 3001.

 

[gnolife]

^^ Why will Stagecoach reduced 216 bus service once line to Ashton opens? I'm sure Stagecoach would love to keep 216 bus service as it is now to complete against Metrolink and hope passenger how use 216 bus service still use it once Metrolink line opens.

I'm not sure that there's enough demand on the Manchester - Droylsden - Ashton corridor for 5 trams and however many buses there are on the 216, plus the 219 and national rail services to Ashton

 

[familyguy99]

Stagecoach will reduce the frequency if they find that their buses are running much more empty due to passengers transferring to the tram. However, I don't think that is likely given the big difference in fares and small difference in journey time.

Services were disrupted yet again today by a failed tram. But it wasn't an old one - it was 3001.

^^ I think if 216 bus do become more empty because of Metrolink then it is possible stagecoach will run 216 bus like 15 mins service eg but saying that Stagecoach could end up having special bus ticket prices on 216 bus to make people catch that bus then catching trams to Manchester or even Etihad stadium if people end up catching trams once line opens to Ashton.

I wonder who more busy at peak times between Droylsden to Manchester like do trams get more busy then buses to Manchester or do people still catch bus to Manchester then Metrolink since it opens.

 

[Starmill]

If you're starting at stations between Mouldsworth and Ashley it is usually cheaper to buy a through ticket to a Metrolink stop than buying two tickets. This means someone in Sale making a return journey to Knutsford has to pay more than some in Knutsford making a return journey to Sale.

Not having to buy a new ticket at your interchange point is useful, especially to those who miss a tram while buying a ticket or aren't familiar with the interface on the Metrolink TVMs.

Indeed, it's something of a mess. I was thinking more along the lines of London Terminals to MEDIA CITY MTLK - SVR £81, wich is the Manchester STNS fare (£77.30) + a peak Metrolink return to MediaCity - £3.70! And that's an Off-Peak Return! But they've got to cover the base that you could use it before 09:30 on the next day. And what if you have a Railcard? Definitely cheaper to split, even with the obvious loss of convenience.

 

[tbtc]

How do bus frequencies to Bury/ Altricham compare to pre-Metrolink levels?

Probably too early to know whether the Oldham bus routes will sustain their current frequencies in the longer term

 

[northwichcat]

How do bus frequencies to Bury/ Altricham compare to pre-Metrolink levels?

Probably too early to know whether the Oldham bus routes will sustain their current frequencies in the longer term

I think it'll be difficult to make a like for like comparison on bus routes. When the Altrincham and Bury lines were converted most bus routes were under GM Buses opposed to First and Stagecoach. In the South Manchester area there was also North Western Road Car Co. (now Arriva) competing with Star Line Travel (who North Western took over) and when the takeover happened there was a reduction in frequency on some routes due to there being less competition.

 

[edwin_m]

On the Bury and Altrincham lines Metrolink is going to beat any end-to-end bus journey on speed, so the buses will mostly be serving intermediate journeys for which there is no convenient Metrolink stop. At the opposite extreme the Eccles line is slower than the bus for end-to-end journeys but presumably picks up patronage in both directions to/from Salford Quays.

Ashton is probably somewhere in between, with fast bits at both ends but the middle section using the same road as the buses and therefore travelling not much faster (though the exclusive lane inbound should give it some advantage in the morning peak).

 

[radamfi]

Bury to Manchester is still a busy bus route. The 135 operates frequently using bendy buses. The 263/4 route to Altrincham has been more problematic. It was given up and ended up being run by Arriva. The frequency dropped to every 30 minutes, but a 15 minute service was reintroduced thanks to improved kick start funding.

Yet another points problem at Newbold led to suspension of service to Rochdale this morning. What on earth can be so bad about this location? Will there always be points problems here?

 

[Manchester77]

When compared with other areas they aren't that bad