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Manchester Airport line - Platform extensions

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Howardh

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Anything will be faster than the tram. It takes forever.
I've travelled on the normal bus from Piccadilly to the Airport, think it's the 43. Took well over 1.5hrs early evening! But I agree, the tram isn't much of an alternative, think that takes an hour (??)which is ridiculous.
One time-saving option could be Airport - W Didsbury (or reverse) and take the tram from there. Never done it, but would avoid the 43 trying to get down Palatine Rd, Oxford rd, Wilmslow Rd which really is a crawl, even on a Sunday.
 
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javelin

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By my count 14 platforms need doing on the Chat Moss line, plus the 5 on the Styal line, plus 6 at Blackrod, Adlington and Leyland, plus however many on the Aire and Wharfe Valley lines. So I do not understand how they arrived at a total of only 17, although Sectional Appendix platform lengths are not always accurate/up to date.

Of course some will just involve bringing a disused portion of the platform back into use.

Maybe it's just a poor choice of words and it means platform extensions at 17 stations? That would be closer to the mark. Either way, they're clearly planning more extentions than just the Styal line for the extra 323s.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Presumably the Airport will be reachable from the south as normal during the station works.
It's only an hourly service, but rail travel via Wilmslow looks possible for some.
 

jfollows

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Presumably the Airport will be reachable from the south as normal during the station works.
It's only an hourly service, but rail travel via Wilmslow looks possible for some.
Why do you presume? There are no passenger trains of any sort to/from Manchester Airport on affected days; see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...23-01-15/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt for the service on Sunday January 15th. for example. There's a regular replacement bus service to/from Wilmslow from the airport bus station.
 

Some guy

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Yes, Northern are getting the WMT 323s and they will replace 319s and 6.331 sets (in pairs) in the North West I believe (I bet Blackpool line people won't like it, but they do have more capacity due to the 3+2 seating). 323s don't have ASDO so this may be why they are extending platforms now.
They won’t be able to serve Blackpool unless in 3 car formations as they won’t fit in adlington or Blackrod stations
 

LNW-GW Joint

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jfollows

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Because the NR press item said the Piccadilly-Airport line would be closed, not the whole Styal route.
I'll stop presuming.
Actually there was a single ECS working with a pair of 331s over that section yesterday, but no passenger service. Units arrived from Liverpool as a pair 18:28 Saturday.
 

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  • Realtime Trains | 5N56 1004 Manchester Airport to Manchester Oxford Road | 08:01:2023.pdf
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jonesy3001

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The current Styal line pattern is utterly broken and won’t last long. There is now 2tph all stops, but at the expense of the Lime Street - Warrington Bank Quay electric service, but too many trains run non-stop, not enough skip-stop calls have been retained and the ones that have should probably run non-stop, e.g. the Barrow/Windermere service should definitely run non-stop and the Blackpool North - Hazel Grove which has been hastily diverted that way should not.

I thought 323s were banned through Chorley. They might get away with replacing many of the 319/769 workings and Sprinters on the new Stalybridge/Westhoughton wires, but they will never displace 6 car 331s to Blackpool North. The line just couldn’t take the capacity reduction.

I doubt 323s could be pathed to run at 90mph on the WCML between Wigan and Preston either, but that might be able to cope with a 4 car 331.

I do hope Lea Green and Newton-le-Willows get done to 6 car length now TPE are running 6 car 185s on the Hull service. The Merseyrail platform extensions are nearly done so the same team may be able to move onto Chat Moss.

I’ve heard that the Roby and Huyton island platforms can’t be lengthened to 6 cars without track realignment, but they don’t look like that would make them too narrow to me.

Down Fast or Down Slow? Roby is 4 platforms.

There does seem to have been many changes to unit allocations in this timetable. I can’t work out what has been freed up or where.

What electric only services run into Victoria? I have seen them on the peak Wigan North Western Chat Moss shuttles.

Does the early morning Stoke-on-Trent - Blackpool North 331 not still run, formerly the only 331 south of Stockport other than to Hazel Grove?
Hazel groves now 150s, just the liverpool to victoria and wigan north western are 319s/331s.
 

jfollows

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Hazel groves now 150s, just the liverpool to victoria and wigan north western are 319s/331s.
2H92 08:10 Hazel Grove-Piccadilly booked 331 (331 021 today, apparently), it then works to Crewe and back for the rest of the day (AN805) according to the diagrams I linked to earlier in post #30. AN809 diagram separately spends its day between Stoke and Manchester (331 029 331 012 today I think). [331 029 worked 2H82 Stoke-Piccadilly platform 12 and sat in p12 all day before going to Stoke 2K50 in the evening, AN819 diagram.]
 
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Greybeard33

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Down Fast or Down Slow? Roby is 4 platforms.
My mistake. Roby needs extensions to both P1, Down Chat Moss Fast, which is 117m, and P3, Up Chat Moss Fast, which is 100m. P4, Up Chat Moss Slow, is also 100m, but I don't think that is normally used by the Airport services.
They won’t be able to serve Blackpool unless in 3 car formations as they won’t fit in adlington or Blackrod stations
See post #23. Adlington (Lancs) and Blackrod are to get platform extensions for 6-car 323s.
 

Some guy

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See post #23. Adlington (Lancs) and Blackrod are to get platform extensions for 6-car 323s.
Wouldn’t it have made sense to extend it when they wired the route like they did with lostock. It’s also interesting how they will extend leyland as it would be difficult as that’s on the WCML
 

Greybeard33

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Wouldn’t it have made sense to extend it when they wired the route like they did with lostock. It’s also interesting how they will extend leyland as it would be difficult as that’s on the WCML
I believe the Leyland platforms used to be about 170m long. They just need to refurbish the derelict sections.
 

CE142

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What were the recent extensions, then?
Which recent extensions?
The only Platform work that has been done was Dalton on the down, which was one door only, due to the curvature of the platform and the low platform. The rebuilt the platfrom so that it now can fit the front 7 doors of 2x195/1 on it....
There's is loads of room on the Barrow end of the down platform for them to have extended it, but Network Rail couldn't be bothered as that would have cost too much money. Even though the majority of the old platform is still there in the undergrowth, same for the likes of Silverdale, Arnside, Kents Bank, Cark & Cartmel, Ulverston and Roose. All have restrictions on them as to how many doors can be released.

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Wouldn’t it have made sense to extend it when they wired the route like they did with lostock. It’s also interesting how they will extend leyland as it would be difficult as that’s on the WCML
Leyland isn't a problem, the platforms can easily accomadate 6 car 331/s, it's the low platform ends at the Euxton Junction end of the station that are the problem, although on the Up Fast if the moved the Stop Board down to the Signal then a 6 car 331 would fit, the ASDO System would then get get confused though, as it can't work out if it is on the Up Fast or the Up Slow.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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My mistake. Roby needs extensions to both P1, Down Chat Moss Fast, which is 117m, and P3, Up Chat Moss Fast, which is 100m. P4, Up Chat Moss Slow, is also 100m, but I don't think that is normally used by the Airport services.
And yet Roby and Huyton were rebuilt with the 4-tracking project (which also removed Huyton signal box, allowing platform extension westwards.
It's poor planning to have to have an extension project so soon after the rebuild.
 

317 forever

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It looks like I celebrated 2 end of era operations on Saturday December 10th. My day out was Heaton Chapel - Huyton (and buses from there instead of Widnes). Not only did I get through trains Heaton Chapel - Oxford Road and back, but I rode a 319 from Newton-le-Willows to Huyton. I think it had started at Manchester Victoria.
 

jonesy3001

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It looks like I celebrated 2 end of era operations on Saturday December 10th. My day out was Heaton Chapel - Huyton (and buses from there instead of Widnes). Not only did I get through trains Heaton Chapel - Oxford Road and back, but I rode a 319 from Newton-le-Willows to Huyton. I think it had started at Manchester Victoria.
They've got 319s on the lime streets to oxford road today due to the closure of piccadilly station.
 

CJ

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An update on this - I travelled down the Airport line recently, and can confirm that work has indeed finally started on all three stations.

Out of the three, Gatley station had the most progress being made so far with some infrastructure being put in place. East Didsbury had some progress being made also. Mauldeth Road it didn't look like much progress has been made on that station yet compared to the former two, but I imagine it won't be too far behind.
 

Agent_Squash

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Which recent extensions?
The only Platform work that has been done was Dalton on the down, which was one door only, due to the curvature of the platform and the low platform. The rebuilt the platfrom so that it now can fit the front 7 doors of 2x195/1 on it....
There's is loads of room on the Barrow end of the down platform for them to have extended it, but Network Rail couldn't be bothered as that would have cost too much money. Even though the majority of the old platform is still there in the undergrowth, same for the likes of Silverdale, Arnside, Kents Bank, Cark & Cartmel, Ulverston and Roose. All have restrictions on them as to how many doors can be released.

Isn’t Ulverston getting some work done to extend the platforms too?
 

AGH

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Two 331s (15 & 22) on 2A12 Lime Street to Airport this morning. Only front 4 1/2 carriages fitted onto Newton le willows this morning and dot matrix said front 5 for stations after Piccadilly to the Airport.

I commute on these services and haven't seen a 319 since the new timetable. 323s but mainly 331. Six for the first time today and needed very much so. Hopefully the norm and if so plenty of lengthening to do.
 

jfollows

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Two 331s (15 & 22) on 2A12 Lime Street to Airport this morning. Only front 4 1/2 carriages fitted onto Newton le willows this morning and dot matrix said front 5 for stations after Piccadilly to the Airport.

I commute on these services and haven't seen a 319 since the new timetable. 323s but mainly 331. Six for the first time today and needed very much so. Hopefully the norm and if so plenty of lengthening to do.
AN827 diagram per the ones I posted earlier, only single 331/0 booked so the six might be an exception or the diagrams may have been altered.
1673859581297.png
 

mcnw35282

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Two 331s (15 & 22) on 2A12 Lime Street to Airport this morning. Only front 4 1/2 carriages fitted onto Newton le willows this morning and dot matrix said front 5 for stations after Piccadilly to the Airport.

I commute on these services and haven't seen a 319 since the new timetable. 323s but mainly 331. Six for the first time today and needed very much so. Hopefully the norm and if so plenty of lengthening to do.
If Northern are to persist with the ridiculous notion of running 1 train per hour between Manchester and Liverpool via chat moss, then this has to be the norm. Whoever thought running one stopping train per hour between Earlestown, St Helens Junction and Liverpool needs their bloody head examining...frankly.
 

8A Rail

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If Northern are to persist with the ridiculous notion of running 1 train per hour between Manchester and Liverpool via chat moss, then this has to be the norm. Whoever thought running one stopping train per hour between Earlestown, St Helens Junction and Liverpool needs their bloody head examining...frankly.

Absolutely spot on. Three car units every hour during the week are getting packed long before they get to Whiston and made worst at times when Northern cancel trains too (for what ever reason), so you could be waiting two / three hours for a train but by that time, you give up going whatever you were heading too or find alternative transport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Two 331s (15 & 22) on 2A12 Lime Street to Airport this morning. Only front 4 1/2 carriages fitted onto Newton le willows this morning and dot matrix said front 5 for stations after Piccadilly to the Airport.

I commute on these services and haven't seen a 319 since the new timetable. 323s but mainly 331. Six for the first time today and needed very much so. Hopefully the norm and if so plenty of lengthening to do.
Class 319's are not rostered for the Liverpool to Manchester service since the new timetable. Just booked for either Class 323 or Class 331.
 

mcnw35282

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St Helens Junction is a 5 min walk from my house, whereas St Helens Central is a 10 min drive. I just can't see Northern's logic of reinstating the half hourly service on the Wigan line...usually made up of 6 car 331s, while the chat moss has to make do with an hourly 3 car service. I can't remember the last time I sat down on a train from junction to lime st. If they're gonna insist on an hourly piecemeal service, then move the non-ASDO 323s to Liverpool/Wigan services and use the ASDO 331s on the chat moss route so at least some of us can sit down!
 

jonesy3001

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Absolutely spot on. Three car units every hour during the week are getting packed long before they get to Whiston and made worst at times when Northern cancel trains too (for what ever reason), so you could be waiting two / three hours for a train but by that time, you give up going whatever you were heading too or find alternative transport.

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Class 319's are not rostered for the Liverpool to Manchester service since the new timetable. Just booked for either Class 323 or Class 331.
Only the 05:32 from the airport is the only run you'll see a 319 on the Piccadilly side now.
 
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mcnw35282

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Absolutely spot on. Three car units every hour during the week are getting packed long before they get to Whiston and made worst at times when Northern cancel trains too (for what ever reason), so you could be waiting two / three hours for a train but by that time, you give up going whatever you were heading too or find alternative transport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The busiest stations are always Rainhill and Whiston. If people are already standing in the doorways when the train gets to Junction, then you know you're in for an uncomfortable journey. Lea Green can be pretty busy as well, depending on if the TPE flyer has already been...
 

8A Rail

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The busiest stations are always Rainhill and Whiston. If people are already standing in the doorways when the train gets to Junction, then you know you're in for an uncomfortable journey. Lea Green can be pretty busy as well, depending on if the TPE flyer has already been...
I know, I live in Whiston and station is about five minutes away. I like to visit the city centre but put off most times because of the poor service provided and cancelations don't help either! You only need to look at the car park - in the past it was always full during the week day, these days take any space you want but the Liverpool bound platform always has people turn up waiting to get on the train. As for weekends, you don't even consider attempting to get some train's, you may not get on anyway!
 

Toby Atkinson

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This might be covered elsewhere. But are the 6 car 195s just covered by one guard? As they can’t get between the sets internally can they
 

childwallblues

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St Helens Junction is a 5 min walk from my house, whereas St Helens Central is a 10 min drive. I just can't see Northern's logic of reinstating the half hourly service on the Wigan line...usually made up of 6 car 331s, while the chat moss has to make do with an hourly 3 car service. I can't remember the last time I sat down on a train from junction to lime st. If they're gonna insist on an hourly piecemeal service, then move the non-ASDO 323s to Liverpool/Wigan services and use the ASDO 331s on the chat moss route so at least some of us can sit down!
Liverpool-Wigan North Western/Blackpool North services are booked for 319s since the new timetable.
 

CE142

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This might be covered elsewhere. But are the 6 car 195s just covered by one guard? As they can’t get between the sets internally can they
Yes. There may be occasions where a member of staff travelling Passenger may do tickets in the front set and there are some roving sets of RPO/RPI/Penalty Fare Collectors, that always target the front set.
 
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