Management By Wandering Around

[GordonT]

From reading various books about BR days there was an expectation that managers including the most senior of them would make time to turn up unannounced at the front line in order to see first hand how things were, to speak to front line staff and ask questions and to roll up their sleeves and help out if an opportunity arose. A visible and accessible management presence was also expected to be in situ if major disruption was causing havoc at a busy location. Do the newer breed of rail managers do much of this? Arguably there's an even greater need for them to spend time on the shop floor if they've not "risen through the ranks" as used to be the route for most.

 

[Sheridan]

It does still happen, but probably less often, and probably not as unannounced either!

 

[sw1ller]

I wouldn’t know anybody above my bosses boss at my TOC if I fell over them.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Prior to the full scale introduction of Pendolinos on the WCML there was a daily Euston – Manchester service. One day I decided to try the new trains out (having experienced them many times since I wish I hadn’t got my hopes up) but the service on that day was cancelled. Among the people milling about, presumably trying to establish whether it could run or another unit sourced, I noticed Chris Green, so the practice of senior management getting involved in routine matters still lived on into the privatisation era for ex BR managers.

 

[43066]

Do the newer breed of rail managers do much of this? Arguably there's an even greater need for them to spend time on the shop floor if they've not "risen through the ranks" as used to be the route for most.

I’ve spoken to our head of drivers and our MD a couple of times. The latter in particular does seem to make the effort to get out and about and to be seen doing so. That’s in stark contrast to my last TOC where the culture was terrible and nobody senior ever seemed to show their faces amongst the front line plebs!

 

[LowLevel]

I’ve spoken to our head of drivers and our MD a couple of times. The latter in particular does seem to make the effort to get out and about and to be seen doing so. That’s in stark contrast to my last TOC where the culture was terrible and nobody senior ever seemed to show their faces amongst the front line plebs!

The head of drivers has always been pretty conspicuous and approachable! I've been his guard enough times to be on first name terms which is a pretty good show of understanding of what goes on at the shop floor

 

[meepmeep]

It lived on in the Network Southeast era. There were meet the managers events on 8-11 (or the wood as it was known) at Euston

 

[Busaholic]

Peter Hendy was very much one for getting stuck in during his days at London Transport, then the privatised Centrewest bus company and later when going back to the centre with TfL: whether any of that translated to his top job in charge of the trains I've no idea, but he had little experience in that area before.

 

[43066]

The head of drivers has always been pretty conspicuous and approachable! I've been his guard enough times to be on first name terms which is a pretty good show of understanding of what goes on at the shop floor

That’s pretty good going. I didn’t think he still drove trains!

We are out on a limb in London and it’s a bigger effort for them to get to us. Not that anyone in London sees that as a bad thing .

 

[noddingdonkey]

I remember being on a TPE service, I'm guessing around 2004, on the hottest day of the year on a busy 158 with knackered air con in one carriage. Shortly after departing Leeds a voice came on the PA system introducing himself as the MD of the company, apologising for the conditions and reassuring us that new units with working air con would be arriving soon. Shortly afterward the refreshments trolley arrived in the affected carriage and announced that the MD had authorised him to dish out free cold drinks in that carriage.

I was pretty impressed by that, I think I might have even written a rare email of praise to TPE (though probably with a backhanded comment that it should be standard practice in those circumstances, not when when the boss is on board and feeling generous).

 

[matt_world2004]

Never seen the idiot in tfl who decided to introduce remote sign on for bus drivers despite it being potentially illegal as there is no accurate way of recording working hours or uniform changing facilities

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Used to do it all the time - especially when covering the first on line call managers (was basically on call all the time) , but a cadre of staff were expected to be the response staff, so assumed therefore good practice to be visble and talk to the staff , often on "neglected" areas - like the east end of the North London line and especially the Gospel Oak - Barking line which rarely saw anything more than Traction management riding around as part of assesments etc.

A run round to Richmond enabled all 6 sets of units and crews to be talked to in 90 mins , though it has to be said they knew I was there after 2 trains. Not that I was looking for faults , just to get a feel for loadings etc. (this on a Saturday evening)

Likewise big events at say Wembley would see self or one of my managers out on site , as well as the usual supervision. Big disruption even more so.

Personal observation riding passenger on the 2337 Euston to Watford DC could be interesting , and as for the 2345 North Woolwich to Stratford ....!!!

So yes , always a believer in (unpaid) management by walking around. Part of the job in my view.

 

[johntea]

There used to be that 'Undercover Boss' series on TV where the CEOs/managers of various companies would turn up in some (rather questionable!) make up / disguise and pretend to be a new employee or someone interested in work experience to get an idea of how their company was running on the factory floor

A smart employee would probably catch on straight away when a film crew turned up of course but they seemed to be quite clever in choosing which ones to feature in the show!

Do train operating companies ever use 'secret shoppers', that is quite a common thing for retail

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Rolling in to platform 2 at Man Vicc on a busy commuter laden service that was *supposed* to be running to liverpool was the first I was aware that my train had been cancelled. The throng of people heading towards the ticket barriers when a certain MD Goodwin was coming through on to thr station. I swear his eyes popped out on storks when he saw the sea of people heading his way from the 185 disgorging its unhappy punters onto the platform. So what did he do? Throw his coat across himself thereby hiding his name badge and he took off towards the overbridge in the general direction of platform 4/5….

 

[43096]

Rolling in to platform 2 at Man Vicc on a busy commuter laden service that was *supposed* to be running to liverpool was the first I was aware that my train had been cancelled. The throng of people heading towards the ticket barriers when a certain MD Goodwin was coming through on to thr station. I swear his eyes popped out on storks when he saw the sea of people heading his way from the 185 disgorging its unhappy punters onto the platform. So what did he do? Throw his coat across himself thereby hiding his name badge and he took off towards the overbridge in the general direction of platform 4/5….

And in a nutshell, that tells you why he was fired.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Most old hand managers had risen through the ranks and would often get stuck in when the need arose ie never expect your staff to do what you’re not prepared to do yourself (although there were some right b**tards too). Then there we’re graduate managers some of whom were just out to either feather their own nests or make a name for themselves. Then there’s the modern manager who have never done the job they are managing,has little understanding of it and constantly watching his bottom line. The old managers would indeed wander about and show their face but modern managers tend to be tied to their desks chasing delay minutes etc. Worst are some middle management in non jobs who report things without speaking to the person concerned first.

 

[Horizon22]

There's a reasonable amount of this, and I think is highly individual to the person in question. I think a good manager will do this but to an extent; I've seen managers come in unannounced and say why isn't X being done, or offering irrelevant suggestions on Y which come across a little aloof and frustrate those on the ground / office / control room doing the job on a daily basis, who have no doubt raised these issues previously. It needs to be constructive and sympathetic and a listening ear more than anything else and to "take it all in" and feedback on how to make things better (where possible, even management has someone they report to!). Getting the wrong tone can be counter-productive.

I don't think its essential as a manager to know exactly how to do the role of those you manager, but it certainly helps. Chipping in when things are hard gets you respect and a greater understanding of their challenges, especially if you are asking them to do something and the impact any changes you have might make.

 

[43094]

Personally, I’m ‘old school’ like that, and will talk to anyone if they’re happy to - you never know where the jigsaw pieces you pick up might come in handy in improving something.

In addition, it generally makes others feel valued / supported if someone is prepared to listen / empathise / experience something for themselves, even if it’s not something that person can directly influence. That can be as simple as a manager electing to sit in Standard rather than First on a busy service, and see what things are like for customers and staff there as well as in more spacious / quieter surroundings.

What is a little depressing is the number of times I’ve been told ‘you’re one of not that many who makes time to do this’ or similar. To me, if you experience what’s going on, you’re one step closer to understanding how staff and customers feel, and why.

As above though, there’s also often a difference between experiencing the ‘everyday’ and something being pre-arranged, in the latter case it’s more likely you’ll see what the business would like you to see….

It’s not just restricted to customer facing roles / experiences either, there’s a whole host of things which people don’t see and go in to making things work for all, which can be quite eye-opening if you get chance to!

 

[Nicks]

Many TOCs run (or have in the recent past) secret shopper campaigns. Often the numbers of assessments can be relatively small or targeted on particular issues. By the very nature of the work it is not often publicised.

TfL run a major programme continously (every day) across almost all of it's transport modes, some but, not all, involve staff interactions or covert observation.

 

[whoosh]

I had Tim Shoveller, when he was Operations Director at Midland Mainline, and David Horne, when he was Managing Director at East Midlands Trains both have a cab ride with me.

The latter ride was quite amusing as he got on at the start of the journey at Nottingham. The elephant in the room being that a strike ballot had taken place over a collection of items deemed "breakdown in industrial relations" but a key one being the over the discipline of a Driver.
It took him until Wellingborough to garner himself into bringing it up, at which point I told him exactly what I thought of the situation (he was very new to the rôle so I didn't blame him), and how the events leading up to it should never have happened.

I thought it was good that a feel for what was happening on the ground was sought after by both, and would encourage any 'higher up' to seek out such an avenue for an 'eye opener'.

Drivers visiting Signalboxes and Control or vice-versa, Higher-Ups mingling with Station Staff, Guards and Drivers - It helps everyone, if everyone can appreciate each other's rôles and issues.

 

[Wharfe]

I was travelling from Huddersfield to Manchester one day in the summer of 2007 and was very interested to hear on the PA the MD of TPE at the time announce his presence on the train, and that he would be coming through shortly to answer questions, take comments etc. Quite brave as services had been badly delayed that morning... He did though, AND did a full litter sweep too. I was very impressed...

 

[BJames]

I had Tim Shoveller, when he was Operations Director at Midland Mainline, and David Horne, when he was Managing Director at East Midlands Trains both have a cab ride with me.

The latter ride was quite amusing as he got on at the start of the journey at Nottingham. The elephant in the room being that a strike ballot had taken place over a collection of items deemed "breakdown in industrial relations" but a key one being the over the discipline of a Driver.
It took him until Wellingborough to garner himself into bringing it up, at which point I told him exactly what I thought of the situation (he was very new to the rôle so I didn't blame him), and how the events leading up to it should never have happened.

I thought it was good that a feel for what was happening on the ground was sought after by both, and would encourage any 'higher up' to seek out such an avenue for an 'eye opener'.

Drivers visiting Signalboxes and Control or vice-versa, Higher-Ups mingling with Station Staff, Guards and Drivers - It helps everyone, if everyone can appreciate each other's rôles and issues.

I've always thought David Horne seems quite proactive - I've seen him respond to people on Twitter in threads about disruption etc asking them to send him an email with why something was handled badly/more information about a situation etc.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I was travelling from Huddersfield to Manchester one day in the summer of 2007 and was very interested to hear on the PA the MD of TPE at the time announce his presence on the train, and that he would be coming through shortly to answer questions, take comments etc. Quite brave as services had been badly delayed that morning... He did though, AND did a full litter sweep too. I was very impressed...

that would have been Vernon Barker. He always made a habit of making himself known on the train and took time out to talk to people on the train, staff and “customers” Nick Donovan was similarly chatty whenever he was out and about on the trains. Leo Goodwin on the other hand……

 

[GusB]

I don't and never have worked on the railway but, in all the jobs I've done over the years, the managers who gain the most respect from staff and customers alike are those who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty.

Generally speaking, the managers for whom I've had the most respect are those who have risen up through the ranks and have received some sort of management training. From experience, they tend to be more inclined to give some respect back because they haven't forgotten what it's like to be in an entry-level position. One former store manager was renowned for being unavailable when you dialled his office extension; he was far more likely to be found in the warehouse with sleeves rolled up and moving pallets around.

What I find objectionable is those who move into a management role without any experience of the industry they've been brought into, and who expect to take charge of a team simply because they're "trained managers". I think it's probably a bit naive to think that a good manager should be able to step into the shoes of someone at the bottom of the ladder these days, but they should at least have a good grasp of what it's like to step into the shoes of the relevant department manager.

 

[L401CJF]

Not railway related but I would say relevant.

Going Back about 10 years in a previous role driving buses. The companies policy on going through the management program meant you could be transferred anywhere (you weren't allowed to manage your home depot) at the click of a finger.

We had a new operations manager brought in from Scotland. He was extremely heavy handed and morale instantly dropped through the floor. People were sacked left right and center for really stupid things almost immediately. After numerous complaints from the workforce a manager from higher up had a word with him and "kept him in check" as it were.

The new OM put out an apology to the workforce for his heavy hand. It turned out the company had him in a temporary rented home for the next few months until he could sort a place of his own, he was having to commute the 5hr drive every Friday afternoon back to Scotland to see his wife and kids, before driving 5hrs back for Monday morning. He said he was struggling with being so far away and it was really taking its toll on his kids, his family didn't want to uproot from their home in Scotland to move down here and in a way he resented having to work in our place. Unfortunately he took it out on us.

To gain a bit of respect from the workforce he started taking jobs off people and driving buses every so often. He was also keen to address issues the customers had. If they came into the depot with complaints and so on he would take them into his office and have a chat with them. It certainly worked. In the end he mellowed down a lot, really turned the depot around (morale wise but also secured some big investments fleet wise).

It is amazing how much difference getting out there, doing the job and interacting with the public actually makes! It does also show though not to judge a book by its cover. People just assumed he was truely horrible, after realising the issues he was having at home it made people see it from a different side. Still no excuse to upset the workforce though!

 

[duncanp]

Most old hand managers had risen through the ranks and would often get stuck in when the need arose ie never expect your staff to do what you’re not prepared to do yourself (although there were some right b**tards too). Then there we’re graduate managers some of whom were just out to either feather their own nests or make a name for themselves. Then there’s the modern manager who have never done the job they are managing,has little understanding of it and constantly watching his bottom line. The old managers would indeed wander about and show their face but modern managers tend to be tied to their desks chasing delay minutes etc. Worst are some middle management in non jobs who report things without speaking to the person concerned first.

This is not just an issue in the railway industry though.

The same issue occurs throughout industries such as banking, the retail sector, I.T., and no doubt public sector organisations such as the police, local authorities and, especially, the NHS.

Managers who don't know a thing about the job they are supposed to manage, and have no clue about how to handle people.

 

[GordonT]

This is not just an issue in the railway industry though.

The same issue occurs throughout industries such as banking, the retail sector, I.T., and no doubt public sector organisations such as the police, local authorities and, especially, the NHS.

Managers who don't know a thing about the job they are supposed to manage, and have no clue about how to handle people.

The worst examples are termed "seagull managers" for their propensity to swoop in aggressively, leave terrible messes and move on to repeat the process in a different part of the organisation or within a different organisation.

 

[55002]

This is not just an issue in the railway industry though.

The same issue occurs throughout industries such as banking, the retail sector, I.T., and no doubt public sector organisations such as the police, local authorities and, especially, the NHS.

Managers who don't know a thing about the job they are supposed to manage, and have no clue about how to handle people.

That last sentance could apply to the current cabinet.hahaha.

 

[DarloRich]

Then there’s the modern manager who have never done the job they are managing,has little understanding of it and constantly watching his bottom line

Managers who don't know a thing about the job they are supposed to manage, and have no clue about how to handle people.

You don't need to know how a job is done or to rise up through the ranks to manage. The recipe you and others follow is to simply have the same people, thinking the same way, doing the same thing, over and over again.

It is a mantra of people passed over for promotion, jealous of the success of others, a symptom of entitlement or whines from people who have not achieved as much as they think they should have in life.

One former store manager was renowned for being unavailable when you dialled his office extension; he was far more likely to be found in the warehouse with sleeves rolled up and moving pallets around.

That is a manager not doing his job. His job is to manage the store not move pallets about! Yes go out and experiance the world of others but it isn't your job to live it. It is your job to listen to any issues the staff identify, see if you can fix them ( you cant always/often) help them perform and give them what they need to do thier job.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The good thing about a manager who wanders around is that they are seen and not thought of as invisible. By watching what goes on,talking to staff,tea in the mess room etc it goes a long way to earning respect. Often a quiet word in an ear can save a future disciplinary. The more down to earth and realistic a manager is the better they are. Those who are pigeon chested,look at me types end up with a bad reputation and little respect.