Man Vs Ticket Inspector (SWT)

[tannedfrog]

A bit off topic but can i ask was the question of whether " Southern Only" Travelcards being used to arrive on SWT trains at Waterloo was resolved?

 

[island]

I'm sure Island will be along at some point to put us all straight once again, or he may just point us to one of the many threads where he has already done so.

Hi everybody

Yes, but is it Visa Debit or Visa Debit the modern iteration of Electron?

I think the only way to tell these days is if it has 'For electronic use only' or similar on it.

Even that's not reliable. I have a gadget that can (help) determine whether a card will be allowed online, although its other more nefarious potential uses mean that I don't tend to bring it around with me!

As mentioned above, the Solo card scheme has been retired. A few UK banks (Clydesdale, Bank of Ireland, and Northern Bank) still issue Maestro cards, but international acceptance has been patchy so Visa debit cards have more or less taken over.

Cards which have the numbers printed flat (not embossed) can only be used for online transactions. The reverse is not true, however; some cards with raised numbers will also reject offline transactions, and such cards may or may not be marked "electronic use only".

Ask me at the meetup on Friday if you're interested in more technical details.

My winner last week was

"But I bought a ticket from the machine!"
"How did you pay for it?"
"Card. This (Electron) one!!!"

bzzzt.... wrong! they don't work in TVMs. :roll:

Some TOCs' ones do!

I very much agree! I didn't even know that it was an offence, but of course tailgating will make it look like that person is evading the fare.

When I've been able to stop tailgaters, some do have valid tickets, some don't, but it just looks dodgy to tailgate. It's so easy to just use the barriers correctly or to show your ticket to a member of staff who will let you through if it's valid.

Being "held up" is rubbish as an excuse to tailgate, it takes all of 2 seconds if you have your ticket ready, or otherwise the passenger should make sure they get to the station earlier or to replace their non-working season ticket!

I've attempted to stop a tailgater before as a passenger (at an unmanned gateline), and been assaulted for my troubles.

 

[Urban Gateline]

A bit off topic but can i ask was the question of whether " Southern Only" Travelcards being used to arrive on SWT trains at Waterloo was resolved?

Where were you thinking of using it to, you can use a Southern only travelcard within the Zones indicated, I think they only issue Z1-6 anyway, but you can therefore use this on all SWT services within the Travelcard zones, so long as you weren't trying to use it to get to Epsom/Dorking/Havant/Southampton/Portsmout etc...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've attempted to stop a tailgater before as a passenger (at an unmanned gateline), and been assaulted for my troubles.

Any chance you could PM me with details? this interests me

 

[2Dogbox]

Another day in the life of revenue, really. The big question that should be asked is why do people feel the need to video it and put it on the internet?

This is the trouble with the internet and camera phones is that people will film anything and stick it up on you tube. And anyone in a public facing role never knows when they are being filmed. New technology causes as many problems as it solves.

 

[Greenback]

No matter what role you are in, railway or not, I think it's a good idea to presume you are being filmed at all times and act accordingly.

 

[trc666]

That is very true! I've seen my colleagues being filmed by passengers before during arguments, but then again we are all being filmed all the time seeing as CCTV covers every inch of the station!

 

[185]

Some TOCs' ones do!

yeah, I think I've seen them accept them at a couple of places, but our new ones are marked not Solo or Electron.

 

[wintonian]

Cards which have the numbers printed flat (not embossed) can only be used for online transactions. The reverse is not true, however; some cards with raised numbers will also reject offline transactions, and such cards may or may not be marked "electronic use only".

An example of this as you know is the green Lloyd cards that are issued to full current account holders and should in theory work, but they don,t.


Sent from my Motorola Xoom

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Cards which have the numbers printed flat (not embossed) can only be used for online transactions.

Not true.

When they were Visa Electron Cards they wouldn't work in Avantix Mobile machines any way, via chip, swiped or keyed.

Now they are flat Visa Debit Cards they work in Avantix Mobile machines. They will be declined on the chip and pin device, but they can be swiped and signed for (as always, I always obtain authorisation via the telephone first).

 

[Stigy]

Sadly, much of the alledgedly 'official' CCTV operated in public areas and private areas visited by the public also fail to meet satisfactory standards of evidence. Even if the CCTV is kept out of the Courts (as it usually is), its value in assisting an investigation is very low. The one and only time I played a video in a Court (at the insistence of the Client, a 'domestic' video showing individuals behaving unlawfully) I realised as soon as it began that no one would be paying any attention - the Client lost, much to my regret as I should have been firmer in refusing his 'domestic' evidence.

Exactly!

Wouldn't really be relevant in this case, but if I've seized/submitted CCTV from trains or stations, it's usually a 'still' as opposed to a disc. Modern digital CCTV is mostly very high quality, especially on board trains. Trouble is, on-train CCTV is extremely time consuming to obtain unless you're police, which begs the question, is it really worth it? I understand all about continuity of evidence and how it has to be logged etc, but it is a real pain! As a whole though, stills can do the trick in most cases (to ID suspects and catch body language etc mainly) as long as the frame rate isn't too slow so as to miss the part you actually want :roll:

Certain companies are also beginning to use sound recording too, I seem to recall?

Regarding the Waterloo ticket barriers. It's been a massive issue since they were installed, with passengers buying tickets to Vauxhall etc, just to board their trains. It just needs to proactive Revenue staff to police it, which, unfortunately, is ever more unlikely as the numbers dwindle.

 

[jon0844]

SSD memory is now very cheap, and a good image sensor can't cost much either (and they're not exactly big). Throw in a custom processor to compress the video with a decent codec and you should be able to record high definition video, and even sound, very easily.

The latest sensors also work very well in low-light, and that would be more than sufficient for any on-train lighting - even if it is quite dim and diffused.

Obviously the cost of professional equipment would be quite a bit higher as it is quite specialised (and the manufacturers know people will pay the higher money) but in terms of hardware, the component cost for the memory/sensor/processor would probably be less than £20. (That would probably still make the camera cost hundreds, but only as a special rate for the railway!).

 

[LondonJohn]

I quite like how people have taken to filming it in some respects as it embarrasses the evader and acts as a deterrent. I'll leave it to the Guards and RPIs to point out the downsides

Filming clearly doesn't act as a deterrent cause this guy clearly hasn't learnt anything after the Sam Main v Scotrail v Big Man episode which has gone awfully quiet.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where were you thinking of using it to, you can use a Southern only travelcard within the Zones indicated, I think they only issue Z1-6 anyway, but you can therefore use this on all SWT services within the Travelcard zones, so long as you weren't trying to use it to get to Epsom/Dorking/Havant/Southampton/Portsmout etc...

This can happen on a wide range of otherwise normal outboundary travelcards. As an example, I occasionally use a 'Southern Only' travelcard from Fareham - and obviously they are available from a number of SWT stations west of Havant. They will be refused at Waterloo because AIUI their barriers read the 'Southern Only' information first and this trumps the travelcard status.

Until a couple of years ago these fares were 'route Hassocks/Horsham' or something similar, and they always worked fine at Waterloo (probably because there were only human checks back then of course...)

 

[island]

Not true.

When they were Visa Electron Cards they wouldn't work in Avantix Mobile machines any way, via chip, swiped or keyed.

Now they are flat Visa Debit Cards they work in Avantix Mobile machines. They will be declined on the chip and pin device, but they can be swiped and signed for (as always, I always obtain authorisation via the telephone first).

That's fine. A phone authorisation counts as online for the purpose of a restricted Visa debit card (but don't forget to key in the six-digit code you get into your Avantix!) Voice authorizations and referrals are not allowed on the Visa Electron scheme.