Man arrested for using plug socket on Overground train

[EM2]

The assertion of the PCSO that he had abstracted electricity is enough to show reasonable suspicion on the part of the arresting officers.

I don't think the arresting officers did anything wrong in arresting him on the word of their colleague.

So what's the problem then?
The PCSO made an assertion to the PCs, the PCs made an arrest based on that assertion, it turned out there was a reason why that arrest was not correct, he was therefore de-arrested.
We don't know what prompted the de-arrest (e.g. maybe it turned out that his charger or the socket weren't actually working).

 

[Tetchytyke]

So what's the problem then?

The PCSO, as I've said right from the very first post...

 

[Flamingo]

Well, if it was my train, I'd have backed up the PCSO...

 

[Clip]

The PCSO, as I've said right from the very first post...

for doing their job? Right you are then.

 

[EM2]

The PCSO, as I've said right from the very first post...

A PCSO who has seen someone with a charger plugged into a socket that they are not supposed to be using. A person who (by his own admission) has refused to remove said charger. A person who became aggressive when challenged about it.
What exactly is the PCSO supposed to do? Shrug their shoulders and forget about it?

 

[Minilad]

Round and round we go.
One person to blame.....it's not the PCSO

 

[meridian2]

The PCSO, as I've said right from the very first post...

And those who seek to perpetuate stories to defend him/her when they weren't there.
Fine for the Standard to opine but not us, no because we weren't there. I've heard better prosaic excuses.
:roll:

 

[EM2]

And those who seek to perpetuate stories to defend him/her when they weren't there.
Fine for the Standard to opine but not us, no because we weren't there. I've heard better prosaic excuses.
:roll:

Pretty much everything I've seen on this thread, from those supporting the PCSO and those supporting Robin Lee, has been gleaned from the media, but rather tellingly it is only Robin Lee who has been playing the 'oh, pity poor me who has been so badly treated' card, including interviews on mainstream broadcast media where he has said 'I don't see what I did wrong' and 'Yes, I'd do it again' and thus condemned himself from his own mouth.

 

[DaleCooper]

Clearly we have two opposing views regarding this event:

There are those who, based on the evidence available, believe the PCSO acted properly. There is no more for them to say.

Then there are those think think, based on the same evidence, that the PCSO acted improperly. What is needed from this side of the argument is to state what the PCSO should have done in the circumstances. When that is done then surely no more needs to be said, we can agree to differ and the thread can be locked.

I've heard better prosaic excuses.
:roll:

What is a prosaic excuse?

 

[AM9]

What is needed from this side of the argument is to state what the PCSO should have done in the circumstances. When that is done then surely no more needs to be said, we can agree to differ and the thread can be locked.

I detect that the advocte for the accused is beginning to dig slightly sideways from the hole that his argument is in, and it seems like he has a problem with the PCSO. What I can't tell is whether it is an issue with PCSOs in general or this particular female one or even that the law enforcers have the tumerity to attack the rights of a smartphone user.

 

[Flamingo]

I detect that the advocte for the accused is beginning to dig slightly sideways from the hole that his argument is in, and it seems like he has a problem with the PCSO. What I can't tell is whether it is an issue with PCSOs in general or this particular female one or even that the law enforcers have the tumerity to attack the rights of a smartphone user. I

I'd suspect it's a prejudice towards anybody in authority in general, PCSO's in particular..

 

[313103]

This is all I am going to say on this matter.

When I was a guard on these trains, I would regularly work through the train (or patrol as Yorkie likes it) and I would often pull people up for using the power points, the way I would do it is to politely ask them to stop doing it and if they asked why I would say You can read cant you! Or ask them to read to me what the sign says above the socket. I would then say if there is a power surge and your device gets fried there will be nothing you can do to get a replacement unless you pay for it yourself.

 

[AM9]

This is all I am going to say on this matter.

When I was a guard on these trains, I would regularly work through the train (or patrol as Yorkie likes it) and I would often pull people up for using the power points, the way I would do it is to politely ask them to stop doing it and if they asked why I would say You can read cant you! Or ask them to read to me what the sign says above the socket. I would then say if there is a power surge and your device gets fried there will be nothing you can do to get a replacement unless you pay for it yourself.

So have you never:

had to ask somebody to remove their device from the socket because it was a trip hazard (as well as a possible fire hazard)
and/or
had them flatly refuse to do so saying that they can do what they want?​

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Something that occurs to me (and I'm surprised no-one else has thought of this)...
From his own media interviews, this guy displays an attitude and feels a sense of 'entitlement' to make use of anything for free, if he can go undetected.

I'm a regular traveler on London Overground, and have seen frequent on-train checks of people's tickets and Oyster cards. Whenever someone is found in possession of an Oyster that has not been touched-in, it's amazing how, on every occasion where I have witnessed this, the miscreant claims to be travelling to whichever stop happens to be the next one the train is due to call at.

Now I have no proof, of course, but maybe this prat pushed past the BTP officers because he doesn't live anywhere in the vicinity of Camden Road, and was in fact worried that his attitude was about to cause them to check whether he had a valid ticket / Oyster for the journey he was making?

(I once saw a similarly belligerent chap sprint off a LO train at Highbury and Islington station, having claimed 'this is my stop!'. Several minutes later, I saw the self-same individual waiting on the platform for a Northbound train for all stations to Hertford North)...

 

[bb21]

I reckon we are done with the thread as we are starting to go around in circles.

To be fair I have sympathy for Arctic Troll's point. Those of you who know me know my general opinion of PCSO's due to several quite, well let's say, "surreal" encounters with them and the fondness for quoting non-existent rules by some of those I met, one of whom ended up being quietly "told off" by a BTP officer on the side. That said, I still appreciate that they have an important role to play and those I encountered may simply be a few poorly-trained (amongst other possible) individuals.

I am willing to keep an open mind as to what exactly happened in this case. I am reluctant to rule out the possibility that the PCSO's starting point could actually be consideration for the guy's own welfare. A little petty on the "stealing electricity" front? Possibly, but then chances are that he showed the wrong attitude when asked and all bets were off from that point onwards. I do find it a little silly arresting him for that reason initially though, as they could have arrested him on that second charge to start with, but that was just my unqualified opinion.

Once he was asked, in my opinion he should have complied. After all she was only doing her job, and correctly most importantly. Chances are he only has himself to blame for the way the whole matter panned out the way I see it.

 

[jon0844]

I share a rather less than pleasant opinion of PCSOs too, so it's perhaps ironic that on this occasion I feel the PCSO had a point - especially if given verbal abuse by someone with a chip on his shoulder.

You have to treat everything individually and not allow prejudices or personal experience to cloud your judgement. Perhaps the PCSO was on a power trip, but we can't know without video evidence - yet the man has been all over the place and demonstrated how HE acts and what he thought.

 

[talldave]

Lol I thought it was the obnoxious **** with the hair who was on the power trip

 

[Tetchytyke]

especially if given verbal abuse by someone with a chip on his shoulder.

The last thing I will say on the matter is that being abusive- verbally or physically- to a police officer, PCSO or TfL authorised person is covered by specific laws.

The fact that Mr Lee was not arrested for being abusive towards a police officer or railway employee, but was instead arrested under the Byelaws for inappropriate conduct (i.e. ignoring a sign and/or a reasonable request from an authorised person), would suggest to me that there was no abuse.

Police will generally- and correctly- arrest for the most serious offence that they can. In short, if the BTP thought Mr Lee had been abusive they'd have nicked him for being abusive, not for a Byelaws offence.

I don't doubt that Mr Lee was being a complete nozzle to the PCSO, but that is a very long way from being abusive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't doubt that Mr Lee was being a complete nozzle to the PCSO, but that is a very long way from being abusive.

I suppose that in certain cases, there can indeed be a very fine dividing line between those two scenarios you note above.

 

[EM2]

I don't doubt that Mr Lee was being a complete nozzle to the PCSO, but that is a very long way from being abusive.

And yet your issue is with the 'over-zealous' PCSO :roll:

 

[GodAtum]

I'm really surprised to see any BTP on LO!

 

[carriageline]

Whilst Mr A Troll makes a valid point, none of us really know that happened, other than what has been printed.

If the suspect politely unplugged his phone, and left, then the arrest would be completely unwarranted.

What I 'imagine' has happened, said PCSO has told him to unplug it, he's said his "I can do what I like", sat there with it charging and jumped off 10 minutes later at his stop. This is unacceptable, she's then tried to talk to him, he's got a bit loud mouthed, some PCs have got involved and he's tried to barge past yelling about "hoooman rites, nanny state, you can't do this" etc and he's got the cuffs slapped on. IMO, justified.

You can't do what you want in life, especially if an officer of the state stops you from doing it justifiably, no matter how pedantic. The problem with yoof today is the lack of respect for the police and elders, as shown here.

Either way he has quite clearly failed the attitude test, and wrongly or rightly got banged up. Now, he might of told the PCSO he 'can do what he likes' or, told them to '**** off, you ****', and swung for the officers, we will never know.

Although sometimes, I'm happy to see twits like this locked up for a few hours, even if it's simply to knock them down a couple of pegs. Perhaps with a bit of police brutality chucked in for good measure :ffs:

 

[GodAtum]

You can't do what you want in life, especially if an officer of the state stops you from doing it justifiably, no matter how pedantic. The problem with yoof today is the lack of respect for the police and elders, as shown here.

At 45, I would not call him a youth, he should know better!

 

[carriageline]

At 45, I would not call him a youth, he should know better!

Sorry no your right, for some reason I thought he was younger!! This screams the actions of a teen to me.

 

[DaleCooper]

Whilst Mr A Troll makes a valid point, none of us really know that happened, other than what has been printed.

Pretty well every poster agrees that we don't really know what happened but it is Arctic Troll who is saying that the PCSO acted wrongly which rather invalidates their "valid" point.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Nobody else thinks his claim to be 'getting off at the next stop anyway' seems bloody convenient ?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Whilst Mr A Troll makes a valid point, none of us really know that happened, other than what has been printed.

If the suspect politely unplugged his phone, and left, then the arrest would be completely unwarranted.

What I 'imagine' has happened, said PCSO has told him to unplug it, he's said his "I can do what I like", sat there with it charging and jumped off 10 minutes later at his stop. This is unacceptable, she's then tried to talk to him, he's got a bit loud mouthed, some PCs have got involved and he's tried to barge past yelling about "hoooman rites, nanny state, you can't do this" etc and he's got the cuffs slapped on. IMO, justified.

You can't do what you want in life, especially if an officer of the state stops you from doing it justifiably, no matter how pedantic. The problem with yoof today is the lack of respect for the police and elders, as shown here.

Either way he has quite clearly failed the attitude test, and wrongly or rightly got banged up. Now, he might of told the PCSO he 'can do what he likes' or, told them to '**** off, you ****', and swung for the officers, we will never know.

Although sometimes, I'm happy to see twits like this locked up for a few hours, even if it's simply to knock them down a couple of pegs. Perhaps with a bit of police brutality chucked in for good measure :ffs:

[

 

[meridian2]

Pretty well every poster agrees that we don't really know what happened but it is Arctic Troll who is saying that the PCSO acted wrongly which rather invalidates their "valid" point.

Based on what was reported. As I said previously, fine for a local rag to speculate but as soon as someone here speculates or opines on what occurred, they are shot-down by people who also weren't there.

 

[DaleCooper]

Based on what was reported. As I said previously, fine for a local rag to speculate but as soon as someone here speculates or opines on what occurred, they are shot-down by people who also weren't there.

This is nonsense, the behaviour of the local rag has nothing to do with members of this forum but if a poster on here speculates then quite rightly they are told to stick to what we know and not criticise anyone based on prejudice or guesswork.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You do realise that talking about his conduct on the train is also pure speculation, don't you?