Man arrested for using plug socket on Overground train

[Clip]

I understand that both the artist and the phone were charged!

HC

Tee Hee

There's certainly an overwhelming whiff of piety on this thread.

Certainly on a train, one shouldn't use sockets that are clearly marked as not being for public use (for the wellbeing of one's equipment as much as anything) but given how many trains have sockets that are for public use, it's not unreasonable for the public to assume that an unmarked one isn't.
.

But they are marked by a big sticker with a red circle with line through it and they state NOT FOR PUBLIC USE on them. So what is reasonable for a member of the public now then?

 

[Antman]

Ahh so what you are using as your justification of not liking them is generally 2nd ,maybe 3rd hand anecdotal evidence from someone who appears also not to like them.

But strangely enough I do speak to coppers and have done for years seeing how I have to work and use them and whilst not everyone likes them they all seem to agree that they do serve a purpose for when they can not be around.

And Im speaking as a first hand user of them - as well as my other colleagues who appear to say the same. First hand. You know, through experience of working alongside them and using them.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about

 

[BanburyBlue]

Out of interest, where are the offending sockets? If they are in the vestibule area, it may be health and safety, with TfL concerned about trailing leads near exit doors?

 

[Darandio]

As for the incident at Plymouth, any organisation claiming to be customer orientated, worth it's salt, should be pleased to accommodate passengers needs, even if that means charging up your phone. This is particularly true of multi-million pound organisations that are more than happy to charge an exorbitant premium for a cup of hot water and a teabag. The BTP tell us that they are spread thinly, then surely they can find something worthwhile to do instead of harassing passengers charging their phones.

Regarding the incident at Plymouth, the person in question was merely passing through on a railtour and was not a customer in that respect.

Just like an earlier post regarding the exorbitant price of tickets, you are noting the inflated price of a refreshment, another case of seemingly being blinded when aghast at price and believing people should be able to take whatever else they want because of this.

I'm not claiming it is 'crime of the century' by any means, but I still don't understand where the mindset comes from that you can just take what you want, when you want, even if it is electricity.

 

[yorksrob]

Tee Hee



But they are marked by a big sticker with a red circle with line through it and they state NOT FOR PUBLIC USE on them. So what is reasonable for a member of the public now then?

Then clearly the passenger is in the wrong.

That said, if this was the case in the waiting room at Plymouth (which I doubt) then it would, to my mind represent a vert stingy attitude by the station management.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding the incident at Plymouth, the person in question was merely passing through on a railtour and was not a customer in that respect.

Just like an earlier post regarding the exorbitant price of tickets, you are noting the inflated price of a refreshment, another case of seemingly being blinded when aghast at price and believing people should be able to take whatever else they want because of this.

I'm not claiming it is 'crime of the century' by any means, but I still don't understand where the mindset comes from that you can just take what you want, when you want, even if it is electricity.

I disagree. A railtour passenger is still a paying passenger and as such still contributes to the maintenance of the railway. As such, he should still be entitled to the same level of customer service as any other paying customers (not that the rest of the passengers at Plymouth seem to be getting much of a service if that anecdote is anything to go by).

 

[Clip]

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about

Ok Im sure it was pretty simple enough a read but ill try again

you are basing your ideas on the effectiveness of PCSOs from someone else - I and a couple of others have said our experiences of dealing with them too as we work alongside them and get their help(and good help they give too) - and ours seem more favourable then you talking to a copper off duty down the pub who possibly bears a grudge or two about them.

As A-Driver pointed out - you are tarring them all with the same brush and that's wrong - especially when you are basing your opinion of them on someone elses opinion.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You could try reading the Railway Byelaws. :roll:

The PCSO didn't deal with the Byelaws- even though they are an authorised person under the TfL Byelaws- the PCSO had him arrested for abstracting electricity. Obviously the BTP are now scratching around desperately trying to find something or anything to save face, instead of holding their hands up and admitting their PCSO was being a tool for even getting involved in the first place.

I make no comment on PCSOs generally, but this one has shown a serious lack of professional judgment. I meant it seriously: if given all the issues we see every day on London transport she has the time to waste hours on rubbish like this, then she's a waste of £25,000 that can be spent elsewhere. If she's got the time to get bogged down arguing with a moron charging his penis substitute then why is the Overground still full of tissue sellers and kids smoking weed? I'm questioning this sort of nonsense when last time I reported aggressive beggars at Acton it took the BTP three hours to get back to me.

As for "talking to coppers", there are plenty of them in my family. PCSOs are good at doing the drudge work, walking around showing their presence, but some of them have an unfortunate habit of making work for themselves with rubbish like this or harassing transport photographers on platforms or bus stations. I genuinely think it's mostly a training issue, but I think PCSOs do seem to overcompensate for the fact they don't actually have any real powers.

 

[meridian2]

Ok Im sure it was pretty simple enough a read but ill try again

you are basing your ideas on the effectiveness of PCSOs from someone else - I and a couple of others have said our experiences of dealing with them too as we work alongside them and get their help(and good help they give too) - and ours seem more favourable then you talking to a copper off duty down the pub who possibly bears a grudge or two about them.

As A-Driver pointed out - you are tarring them all with the same brush and that's wrong - especially when you are basing your opinion of them on someone elses opinion.

Which is exactly the reverse of what you and A-driver are doing; basing your opinions of PCSOs on your own personal experiences. Don't like the fact it differs; tough.

 

[A-driver]

Which is exactly the reverse of what you and A-driver are doing; basing your opinions of PCSOs on your own personal experiences. Don't like the fact it differs; tough.

I have said anything about pcsos based on any experiences actually-in fact I've never spoken to one in my life. All I said was that you can't go around making the kind of comments people were making about an entire workforce, especially when the comments being made are clearly out of the individuals control.

 

[jon0844]

Wait, those people are selling tissues?

I always take them and nobody has ever said anything to me! When someone puts a pack on a seat or table next to me, I've always assumed it was a gift!

(oh, the irony if I ended up charged with theft after the beggars reported me!)

 

[meridian2]

I have said anything about pcsos based on any experiences actually-in fact I've never spoken to one in my life. All I said was that you can't go around making the kind of comments people were making about an entire workforce, especially when the comments being made are clearly out of the individuals control.

Absolutely, but how do you know he didn't have a good reason for doing so? You can't pull someone up and say 'don't tar them with the same brush' if you've never had any of their negative experiences.

 

[Geezertronic]

I make no comment on PCSOs generally, but this one has shown a serious lack of professional judgment. I meant it seriously: if given all the issues we see every day on London transport she has the time to waste hours on rubbish like this, then she's a waste of £25,000 that can be spent elsewhere. If she's got the time to get bogged down arguing with a moron charging his penis substitute then why is the Overground still full of tissue sellers and kids smoking weed? I'm questioning this sort of nonsense when last time I reported aggressive beggars at Acton it took the BTP three hours to get back to me.

Cause and effect. But for the foolish artists actions, he would not have put himself in that situation where the PCSO correctly dealt with the situation. His actions then and via what he said on the radio show him to be an idiot of great magnitude with the "I'll do what I want when I want" attitude. I only hope he never goes to the White Cliffs of Dover and jumps off just because he never sees a sign - maybe if he does and survives, he can claim that there wasn't a sign saying not to jump...

Your own biased opinion on PCSOs seems to stem from your own dealings with them

 

[Clip]

The PCSO didn't deal with the Byelaws- even though they are an authorised person under the TfL Byelaws- the PCSO had him arrested for abstracting electricity. Obviously the BTP are now scratching around desperately trying to find something or anything to save face, instead of holding their hands up and admitting their PCSO was being a tool for even getting involved in the first place.

I make no comment on PCSOs generally, but this one has shown a serious lack of professional judgment. I meant it seriously: if given all the issues we see every day on London transport she has the time to waste hours on rubbish like this, then she's a waste of £25,000 that can be spent elsewhere. If she's got the time to get bogged down arguing with a moron charging his penis substitute then why is the Overground still full of tissue sellers and kids smoking weed? I'm questioning this sort of nonsense when last time I reported aggressive beggars at Acton it took the BTP three hours to get back to me.

.

But that is what they are employed by the BTP to do - they cant be on every train in every direction to eradicate everything can they? You would moan that even more goes on your ticket price to pay for that too.

Which is exactly the reverse of what you and A-driver are doing; basing your opinions of PCSOs on your own personal experiences. Don't like the fact it differs; tough.

Even though A-Driver said nothing apart from tarring but yes, because the ones the BTP employ are very helpful in my and others experience and we like them being there because we know BTP can not always be where they need to be. Want a safer railway or not?

Absolutely, but how do you know he didn't have a good reason for doing so? You can't pull someone up and say 'don't tar them with the same brush' if you've never had any of their negative experiences.

Ive had negative experiences with Doctors but do I think they are all like him and Harold shipman? No, because I am a bit more sensible than that.

 

[67018]

You can't pull someone up and say 'don't tar them with the same brush' if you've never had any of their negative experiences.

Yes you can: I would argue that it is wrong in principle to stigmatise an entire group of people based on anecdotal evidence about one of them.

Otherwise you end up putting yourself in the same group as those who post rubbish along the lines of 'the guard told me off for having the wrong ticket therefore all rail staff are incompetent jobsworths'.

 

[Flamingo]

Yes you can: I would argue that it is wrong in principle to stigmatise an entire group of people based on anecdotal evidence about one of them.

Otherwise you end up putting yourself in the same group as those who post rubbish along the lines of 'the guard told me off for having the wrong ticket therefore all rail staff are incompetent jobsworths'.

That is the default position for a lot of posters on here...

 

[DaleCooper]

Absolutely, but how do you know he didn't have a good reason for doing so? You can't pull someone up and say 'don't tar them with the same brush' if you've never had any of their negative experiences.

How would you like it if I said everyone named Badger was an ignorant, prejudiced, judgmental bigot? Of course I don't think that because I have only one example to judge by.

 

[meridian2]

Which is why he didn't tar them all with the same brush, as the preposterous nature of the replies would suggest doing so is idiotic.
I wish people wouldn't be so emotional in their arguments.

 

[A-driver]

Absolutely, but how do you know he didn't have a good reason for doing so? You can't pull someone up and say 'don't tar them with the same brush' if you've never had any of their negative experiences.

Dont try and defend the indefensible, you are just digging yourself into a hole as you seem to have misunderstood the post.

And even if he had had a negative experience it doesn't mean he can tar the entire workforce with the same brush. Unless he's had a negative experience with over 59% of all PCSOs which I garuntee he hasn't!

 

[Antman]

Ok Im sure it was pretty simple enough a read but ill try again

you are basing your ideas on the effectiveness of PCSOs from someone else - I and a couple of others have said our experiences of dealing with them too as we work alongside them and get their help(and good help they give too) - and ours seem more favourable then you talking to a copper off duty down the pub who possibly bears a grudge or two about them.

As A-Driver pointed out - you are tarring them all with the same brush and that's wrong - especially when you are basing your opinion of them on someone elses opinion.

The point is that they have no more authority than any other Tom Dick or Harry and if its anything serious all they can do is call for a real police officer.

One experience I had with a female PCSO was when I went to my local nick to report something, I won't bore you with the details but she seemed pretty clueless and probably knew less about the law than I do, and I'm certainly no legal expert. She said she would speak to her boss about the matter and that somebody would be in touch, two weeks later I had heard nothing so I e mailed them and I then got a phone call from an inspector who apologised for the lack of action and assured me that he would deal with the issue as a matter of urgency and sure enough within 24 hours I had another call and the matter had been resolved to my complete satisfaction. If only I could have spoken to him in the first place!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding the incident at Plymouth, the person in question was merely passing through on a railtour and was not a customer in that respect.

Just like an earlier post regarding the exorbitant price of tickets, you are noting the inflated price of a refreshment, another case of seemingly being blinded when aghast at price and believing people should be able to take whatever else they want because of this.

I'm not claiming it is 'crime of the century' by any means, but I still don't understand where the mindset comes from that you can just take what you want, when you want, even if it is electricity.

Whilst I understand your point a bit of common sense has to come into it, for example in my local pub they are quite happy for customers to use their plug sockets to charge a phone

 

[455driver]

The trouble is that they don't seem to offer much in the way of support, they can help old ladies across the road but not much else

I am no fan of the Police but I do have a very high regard for the PCSOs I have had dealings with, when they are used appropriately (anti social behaviour etc) their local knowledge enables them to be very effective indeed, the problems come when they are used (inappropriately) to replace normal Police officers and that isn't their fault or a fault of the job.

 

[Llanigraham]

The PCSO didn't deal with the Byelaws- even though they are an authorised person under the TfL Byelaws- the PCSO had him arrested for abstracting electricity. Obviously the BTP are now scratching around desperately trying to find something or anything to save face, instead of holding their hands up and admitting their PCSO was being a tool for even getting involved in the first place.

I make no comment on PCSOs generally, but this one has shown a serious lack of professional judgment. I meant it seriously: if given all the issues we see every day on London transport she has the time to waste hours on rubbish like this, then she's a waste of £25,000 that can be spent elsewhere. If she's got the time to get bogged down arguing with a moron charging his penis substitute then why is the Overground still full of tissue sellers and kids smoking weed? I'm questioning this sort of nonsense when last time I reported aggressive beggars at Acton it took the BTP three hours to get back to me.

As for "talking to coppers", there are plenty of them in my family. PCSOs are good at doing the drudge work, walking around showing their presence, but some of them have an unfortunate habit of making work for themselves with rubbish like this or harassing transport photographers on platforms or bus stations. I genuinely think it's mostly a training issue, but I think PCSOs do seem to overcompensate for the fact they don't actually have any real powers.

So you were there and know exactly what was said between the PCSO and the miscreant?

Of course you weren't, but you are still willing to criticise.

As I've said previously the second word of your Forum name fits you so well.

 

[sarahj]

I am no fan of the Police but I do have a very high regard for the PCSOs I have had dealings with, when they are used appropriately (anti social behaviour etc) their local knowledge enables them to be very effective indeed, the problems come when they are used (inappropriately) to replace normal Police officers and that isn't their fault or a fault of the job.

Agree.

And this as many have said sounds a simple case:

you cannot plug your phone in there
eff off

or words to that effect.
.
Yes the original issue was phone in socket with sign saying dont, but then it went further. The final arrest stated the original charge, then he was de arrested on that and the re arrested on a assault charge.

oarm, I remember reading years ago of someone in Germany who was arrested on a platform for plugging in their laptop into a socket. We was charged and fined with stealing electricity.

Bloody pain in the behind these sockets. some chargers I've removed have been burning hot. Some folks just plug them in and leave them.

And another today who thought it was ok to sit in first class to charge his phone. When you say ok, but you will need a brand new first class ticket, they soon move. Funny thing is, when a person has come up to me, desperate to get some charge for emergency reasons, I've pointed them in the right direction and they have gone away happy. Asking first, blimey, imagine that.:roll:

 

[meridian2]

So you were there and know exactly what was said between the PCSO and the miscreant?

Of course you weren't, but you are still willing to criticise.

As I've said previously the second word of your Forum name fits you so well.

And yet you're happy to believe a third-hand account of the incident from the press, which may or may not be open to comments from people who'll no doubt criticise.

The press tell the truth, there's a first!! :roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

And yet you're happy to believe a third-hand account of the incident from the press, which may or may not be open to comments from people who'll no doubt criticise.

The press tell the truth, there's a first!! :roll:

Try reading what I have actually written, not what you think I have.

I have criticised the miscreant because of his attitude in the various Press articles that have appeared and the few facts that we do know. We will never know what actually happened because the PCSO cannot publish their story, unless the case actually goes to Court and she is questioned about it.

Until then my opinion is that the miscreant has succeeded in showing he is a Richard Head who has unfortunately successfully got lots of publicity for his exhibition. I think lots of us should go to it and plug our phones and computers in there.

 

[meridian2]

Exactly you don't know as no-one has the full facts, but you pull people up for criticising the actions of the PCSO yet are happy to swallow a press story without question.

 

[Geezertronic]

And yet you're happy to believe a third-hand account of the incident from the press, which may or may not be open to comments from people who'll no doubt criticise.

The press tell the truth, there's a first!! :roll:

I heard the idiot artist on the radio and his attitude stinks. That's a first hand account from the idiot himself who has got the "I'll do what I like, when I like" attitude and he'll apparently do it again just because he can - Darwin's Law should apply for idiots like him. Of course, if he was to get an electric shock or his device would break, he would be the first to claim foul and sue. The world needs to be full of signs telling idiots like this what they can or cannot do

 

[meridian2]

I heard the idiot artist on the radio and his attitude stinks. That's a first hand account from the idiot himself who has got the "I'll do what I like, when I like" attitude and he'll apparently do it again just because he can - Darwin's Law should apply for idiots like him. Of course, if he was to get an electric shock or his device would break, he would be the first to claim foul and sue. The world needs to be full of signs telling idiots like this what they can or cannot do

OK I didn't know that.

 

[DaleCooper]

Exactly you don't know as no-one has the full facts, but you pull people up for criticising the actions of the PCSO yet are happy to swallow a press story without question.

It is the blanket disparagement of all PCSOs by some posters that I cannot accept.

 

[AM9]

He's still liable for prosecution under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1985 if BTP so wish plus any railway bylaws realting to disorderly conduct on railway premises. The absurdity of 'stealing electricity' is now a red herring. I think he needs a lesson, maybe a magistrates order for costs and to be bound over. Possible, that might start the self-righteous twit off again. He does seem to have a dangerously distorted idea of his rights and responsibilities so maybe a bit of correction from the court wouldn't go astray.

 

[EM2]

Whilst I understand your point a bit of common sense has to come into it, for example in my local pub they are quite happy for customers to use their plug sockets to charge a phone

These being regular domestic sockets with a smoothed regulated supply that don't bear stickers saying 'Not for public use', I assume? And where people generally ask before plugging in what they like where they like?