Man arrested for using plug socket on Overground train

[skyhigh]

The interesting thing was that he insisted that there was "nothing to say that you couldn't do it". I'm sure the sign wasn't blank...

Edit: beaten to it!

 

[bicbasher]

He was also on ITV News London where he called the service he was on "the tube" and "Camden Road tube"

https://www.facebook.com/ITVLondon/videos/10152967651057944

 

[Llanigraham]

Where's the exhibition? I need to charge my phone.

I'm sure his Twitter persona and his Facebook page will have it!
A mass "phone charging" exodus, perhaps?

 

[transmanche]

Can't see how it has been interpreted incorrectly:

It's nothing to do with byelaw 11.

He was arrested initially under the Theft Act, then later arrested for an offence under TfL Railway Byelaw 6.

 

[londiscape]

So that is where we are as a society now? As long as there is nothing to say you cannot do something, you're automatically allowed to do it?

Is there anything that says I cannot defacate on his exhibition? If not, what can he do about it?

Er... yes - I had thought that was a fundamental principle of English-style criminal law systems, to wit: that which is not expressly prohibited is permitted (contrast with some Continental legal systems which rely on a civil code).

As for defecating on someone's exhibition, I suspect indecent exposure and criminal damage should cover it...

 

[IanKR]

Is there anything that says I cannot defacate on his exhibition? If not, what can he do about it?

As for defecating on someone's exhibition, I suspect indecent exposure and criminal damage should cover it...

... or your defecating on his art could well be construed as your artistic response to his art (think Gilbert & George).

 

[EM2]

Er... yes - I had thought that was a fundamental principle of English-style criminal law systems, to wit: that which is not expressly prohibited is permitted (contrast with some Continental legal systems which rely on a civil code).

Eh? People don't wear notices saying that you can't punch them but we all know that we can't.
Why does a plug socket need a notice on it to say that you can't use it (which they DO have)?

 

[transmanche]

Er... yes - I had thought that was a fundamental principle of English-style criminal law systems, to wit: that which is not expressly prohibited is permitted (contrast with some Continental legal systems which rely on a civil code)

Well quite clearly his actions are prohibited by the Theft Act 1968!

But the issue is that he claimed there was no sign telling him that he couldn't do it. There was also no sign saying 'do not strip naked and defecate on the seats', but I think you'll find that is illegal too...

 

[carriageline]

What's mostly annoyed me is the hate towards PCSOs? I have many friends in the police force. Some PCs, and some PCSOs.

Round our way, the PCSOs have little powers, so that they are not tied up behind a desk and can do visible, 'on the beat' policing as they are designed to do. All my friends love their job, know what they can and can't do, and aim to help the public and deal with problems people have, not actively go and find problems like people suggest (of course, their is always rotten apples)

They can do jobs which a could be a waste of a regular PC, and which they have more time for. Local communities have a 'contact' again for their area and can raise concerns. They deal with anti social behaviour and community based issues. Things like noise complaints, taking crime reports, reports of theft where a PC isn't required immediately, things like mental health assessments? neighbourhood issues, abandoned/suspect vehicles and apparently the most favourite by the public is follow up visits and aftercare following a crime.

I have a few PC friends who are/have stepped down to PCSO roles, the money isn't much different, the job is more enjoyable and you don't get stuck behind a desk doing paper work. Down our way, PCSOs are very popular

Saying all this, all my mates are level headed people who know their place and are not silly.

Normally I agree and respect what Artic Troll says as he often makes a lot of sense and good points, but here he is just being obvious and looking a bit silly. Poor show old chap.

 

[Antman]

What's mostly annoyed me is the hate towards PCSOs? I have many friends in the police force. Some PCs, and some PCSOs.

Round our way, the PCSOs have little powers, so that they are not tied up behind a desk and can do visible, 'on the beat' policing as they are designed to do. All my friends love their job, know what they can and can't do, and aim to help the public and deal with problems people have, not actively go and find problems like people suggest (of course, their is always rotten apples)

They can do jobs which a could be a waste of a regular PC, and which they have more time for. Local communities have a 'contact' again for their area and can raise concerns. They deal with anti social behaviour and community based issues.

I have a few PC friends who are/have stepped down to PCSO roles, the money isn't much different, the job is more enjoyable and you don't get stuck behind a desk policing. Down our way, PCSOs are very popular

Normally I agree and respect what Artic Troll says as he often makes a lot of sense and good points, but here he is just being obvious and looking a bit silly.

As you say the PCSO's have little power and they really are no substitute for police officers

 

[transmanche]

As you say the PCSO's have little power and they really are no substitute for police officers

They're not meant to be a substitute for police constables, merely to supplement them.

 

[EM2]

They're not meant to be a substitute for police constables, merely to supplement them.

Hence the name Police Community Support Officer.

 

[Busaholic]

Moving away from the original incident, am I reading the other incident correctly?

Someone uses a plug in Plymouth station waiting room some years ago, is rightly pulled up on it and people are saying they should either complain to the station manager or their superiors?

Don't give me guff about 'it wasn't marked not for public use'. Since when was it freely acceptable to go and plug your equipment where you please? There are plugs everywhere when you are out and about, in shops, restaurants, barbers etc etc, when did it become normal to just plug in as you please and take electricity?

In my local Costa there are wall plugs which people sometimes use to plug their computers into- I have no idea whether this is intended by the owners, as there are no signs whatsoever, but I have never seen anyone be reprimanded for it.

On the subject of Plymouth station and the BTP, I used to use the station regularly in the evenings, at times originating from there and other times having got off the last inbound service from London to await the late evening shuttle to Penzance. These were almost always midweek occasions but, despite this, there were often some unpleasant people hanging around, often drunk or drugged, and you were terribly exposed on the platform (no waiting rooms). There was a BTP office on one of the platforms with lights blazing but never once did I see an officer. After one too many potentially nasty situations I decided that never again would I willingly travel from Plymouth by train in the evening - if in London, I would cut short my time there by an hour in order to get the last direct train, and if in Plymouth I would go by car.My wife has occasionally to use a train service westbound from Plymouth in mid or late evening, and she says there are frequently drunken and abusive youths of both sexes whose behaviour is never challenged by train staff, who disappear into thin air.

 

[Antman]

Hence the name Police Community Support Officer.

The trouble is that they don't seem to offer much in the way of support, they can help old ladies across the road but not much else

 

[transmanche]

The trouble is that they don't seem to offer much in the way of support, they can help old ladies across the road but not much else

The support they're designed to offer is a) being a visible presence and b) gathering intelligence. Basically what the old 'Dixon of Dock Green' image of a beat bobby used to do - especially now financial cutbacks mean that PCs are often just a response service nowadays.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Er... yes - I had thought that was a fundamental principle of English-style criminal law systems, to wit: that which is not expressly prohibited is permitted (contrast with some Continental legal systems which rely on a civil code).

Hmmm.
I'd caution you in taking that approach too seriously.
What about the Torts of 'negligence' and 'nuisance', or 'misfeasance' ? What about the rageing contests between our Courts and our Police forces over procedure and protocol (but affecting real citizens and victims)?
What about 'trespass' where it is non-trivial and not-apparent encroachement?
What about hazards identified and prosecuted by the Health & Safety Executive?

 

[Clip]

Where's the exhibition? .

Arctic Troll has been making one of himself a page or two before your post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The trouble is that they don't seem to offer much in the way of support, they can help old ladies across the road but not much else

Really? They have helped me out at stations many a time I think you dont know what you are talking about do you?

 

[Flamingo]

I've found PCSO's helpful in the past, both on-train and with youths making a pain in the arrse of themselves in the town.

This prat of a artist, however, seems to have got what he wanted - publicity for his exhibition. (I love autocorrect - the first time I typed this sentence, it came up with "publicity for his execution"! )

 

[Antman]

Arctic Troll has been making one of himself a page or two before your post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Really? They have helped me out at stations many a time I think you dont know what you are talking about do you?

Do I not? Try having an off the record chat to a copper and see what they think, you might be a bit better informed then:roll:

 

[EM2]

Do I not? Try having an off the record chat to a copper and see what they think, you might be a bit better informed then:roll:

Without wishing to speak for Clip, I have done a number of times (I have two very good friends who are policemen (one a Herts sergeant and one a Sussex DC), and they both pretty much support what carriageline said. PCSOs do a lot of the drudgery and have reduced the workload of police officers substantially. Officers at work say the same.

 

[jon0844]

I've had a run in with a PCSO that made up laws that didn't exist (namely it being illegal to take photos outdoors without permission) but I never got aggressive, even though I did complain to a nearby police officer that took him aside for a quick chat (and apologised to me).

But despite my reservations about us having PCSOs at all, I know that many do perform useful and valued duties. I've seen that side of things too.

Some are useless (very useless from what I've seen, like when an on platform argument has kicked off, and where a 'real' officer would have intervened, said PCSO has got on his phone to ask for advice on what to do) but the same applies to all professions. Good and bad apples.

Yes many police officers have nothing good to say, but many do. Some officers are on an ego trip, others are more down to earth. So I'm not surprised that anyone can find people with opinions to suit both sides of the argument.

 

[JaJaWa]

He was also on ITV News London where he called the service he was on "the tube" and "Camden Road tube"

https://www.facebook.com/ITVLondon/videos/10152967651057944

It's shown on the "Tube map".

 

[Mojo]

He was also on ITV News London where he called the service he was on "the tube" and "Camden Road tube"

https://www.facebook.com/ITVLondon/videos/10152967651057944

What an irritating man.

 

[HilversumNS]

He was also on ITV News London where he called the service he was on "the tube" and "Camden Road tube"

https://www.facebook.com/ITVLondon/videos/10152967651057944

In the interview he says "I told them what I thought of them before I left. It's not really TV broadcastable" which clearly demonstrates how he will have failed the 'attitude test' in the 1st place.

Shame we will never hear the PCSO's side of the story.

 

[A-driver]

As you say the PCSO's have little power and they really are no substitute for police officers

So? That isn't their fault is it, and it certainly doesn't justify people slating them on here and tarring them all with the same brush.

 

[Antman]

So? That isn't their fault is it, and it certainly doesn't justify people slating them on here and tarring them all with the same brush.

I'm sure many of them are very nice people, it's more a question of whether they are value for money than anything personal

 

[meridian2]

So? That isn't their fault is it, and it certainly doesn't justify people slating them on here and tarring them all with the same brush.

Even though he may have a good reason for 'slating them', a reason, in principle, I agree with.

 

[Harlan Cage]

I understand that both the artist and the phone were charged!

HC

 

[Clip]

Do I not? Try having an off the record chat to a copper and see what they think, you might be a bit better informed then:roll:

Ahh so what you are using as your justification of not liking them is generally 2nd ,maybe 3rd hand anecdotal evidence from someone who appears also not to like them.

But strangely enough I do speak to coppers and have done for years seeing how I have to work and use them and whilst not everyone likes them they all seem to agree that they do serve a purpose for when they can not be around.

And Im speaking as a first hand user of them - as well as my other colleagues who appear to say the same. First hand. You know, through experience of working alongside them and using them.

 

[yorksrob]

There's certainly an overwhelming whiff of piety on this thread.

Certainly on a train, one shouldn't use sockets that are clearly marked as not being for public use (for the wellbeing of one's equipment as much as anything) but given how many trains have sockets that are for public use, it's not unreasonable for the public to assume that an unmarked one isn't.

As for the incident at Plymouth, any organisation claiming to be customer orientated, worth it's salt, should be pleased to accommodate passengers needs, even if that means charging up your phone. This is particularly true of multi-million pound organisations that are more than happy to charge an exorbitant premium for a cup of hot water and a teabag. The BTP tell us that they are spread thinly, then surely they can find something worthwhile to do instead of harassing passengers charging their phones.