Malaysia Airlines MH370 "Lost Contact"

[edwin_m]

I have also heard that the comms equipment is relatively easy to turn off from the cockpit - this seems a little odd in itself, as why would anyone want to (under normal circumstances) turn it off?

Without any specific technical knowledge I'd suggest this would occasionally be necessary if the equipment becomes faulty. For example if there is a short circuit the relevant breaker might knock out several different systems, and by turning all these off, re-closing and turning them back on one at a time the fault can be identified and the offending system left switched off. With a comms system there is also the possibility of a fault "jamming" the radio channel so nobody else can use it. The philosophy with aircraft systems seems to be to duplicate everything, especially the power supplies, so the design will allow at least one failure to occur without losing any vital functions.

However I referred further up thread to an incident where a single point failure took out all voice communications to an aircraft. I've now found the link to this one again:

www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/4-2009_G-EZAC.pdf‎

As I suggested previously, the fault took out all voice communications to air traffic control for the rest of the flight, and also took out the radar transponder for 20min or so until the crew were able to restore this by re-configuring circuits. It also appears the crew should in theory have been able to get the radio working as well, but for whatever reason (bearing in mind the increased workload caused by all the other failures on the same circuit) they weren't able to.

 

[Class172]

I think you may be right with that - it has certainly been said in the case of engine troubles, the various flaps/ailerons can be set for either a rapid descent or to enable it to maintain altitude - at the end of the day, every plane is pretty much just a giant glider, in essence.

Nowadays, planes have to be designed so that in the event of a catastrophic loss of thrust (ie engines), the aircraft must be able to make a controlled descent; I am doubtful that you'd be able to stay aloft for two whole hours - generally, in order to increase lift for a set speed, the angle of attack must be increased (using the flaps) however this decreases the airspeed; this is why planes can stall when climbing to fast.

 

[WestCoast]

I have also heard that the comms equipment is relatively easy to turn off from the cockpit - this seems a little odd in itself, as why would anyone want to (under normal circumstances) turn it off?

You might want to turn off a transponder at a busy airport (on the ground), some airports request this I believe to avoid confusion because of an excess of information. Additionally, if there is a fault.

This occurrence (can it even be called an accident at this stage?) is becoming more and more bizarre. Pilot foul play or hijackings are of course not unprecedented, but the whole five hours continued flight is weird. We can't rule an explosive decompression with everyone passing out (like the Helios Airways accident) but then transmissions were supposedly deliberately disabled? More questions than answers.

 

[richw]

I've just read on another forum that the Daily Mail is now reporting the pilots marriage has recently broken down. Whether this could be a factor I imagine is under investigation.

 

[jon0844]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html

I particularly like (sarcasm) the inclusion of the word sodomite in the URL to make it sound even more outrageous/sensational.

 

[rebmcr]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html

I particularly like (sarcasm) the inclusion of the word sodomite in the URL to make it sound even more outrageous/sensational.

Well it is the Hate Mail Online...

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Just gets stranger doesn't it. Personally I suspect that if the plane had landed it would have been found by now - there could only be a finite number of airports that could handle a plane of this size that would be remote enough for it to 'disappear' - probably abandoned military bases - and presumably all of these have already received a satellite fly-by in the last few days. If the RAF spotters can see a hidden, dismantled jet fighter, then a 777 would be next to impossible to hide.

I wonder if it was an elaborate hijacking attempt, perhaps by a Middle Eastern terrorist group, hoping to use the Chinese hostages as leverage with China to make them force America out of the region, or maybe by North Korea, but that there was a problem en-route and the plane crashed into the ocean, hundreds of miles off-route and out of range of any military radar.

 

[anthony263]

If it was terrorists frome the middle east who hijacked the plane they I suspect China will be making some moves against those terrorist organisations in the region.

I do agree that this is getting really strange now if it has landed somwhere somebody would have spotted it and the photos ending up online.

Certainly Boeing will be wanting to know especially if there is something wrong with a aircraft they built.

 

[Johnuk123]

Just gets stranger doesn't it. Personally I suspect that if the plane had landed it would have been found by now - there could only be a finite number of airports that could handle a plane of this size that would be remote enough for it to 'disappear' - probably abandoned military bases - and presumably all of these have already received a satellite fly-by in the last few days. If the RAF spotters can see a hidden, dismantled jet fighter, then a 777 would be next to impossible to hide.

I wonder if it was an elaborate hijacking attempt, perhaps by a Middle Eastern terrorist group, hoping to use the Chinese hostages as leverage with China to make them force America out of the region, or maybe by North Korea, but that there was a problem en-route and the plane crashed into the ocean, hundreds of miles off-route and out of range of any military radar.

They've just said that there are 635 airfields big enough for it to have landed within that arc they keep showing.

I don't think anybody is now convinced by the Malayan information, they surely know loads more than they're letting on.

If it's been shot down either by mistake or because they thought it was on a suicide mission to crash into somewhere important they will need time to get the story right.

Nobody at all now seems to be suggesting a mid-air genuine emergency leading to a crash, that seems to be the least likely event at all.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I
I have also heard that the comms equipment is relatively easy to turn off from the cockpit - this seems a little odd in itself, as why would anyone want to (under normal circumstances) turn it off?

If it's faulty, interfering with other equipment etc.

When you have to protect the plane from the pilot the game's over really.

 

[Hornet]

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/p...ysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

 

[Zoidberg]

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/p...ysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

To assist link challenged members here is the intro to that page - it's too big to copy all and it has loads of diagrams and such.

By: Keith Ledgerwood

As the search for missing flight Malaysian Airlines flight 370 drags on into the 10th day, so many questions continue to remain unanswered about how and why the airliner could have disappeared while seemingly under the control of a skilled pilot intent on making it invisible. With satellite pings showing where the plane could be after more than seven hours of flight, speculation has arisen that the plane could be on the ground anywhere along a path from northern Thailand to the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

The major roadblock to this theory has been the insistence from India and Pakistan that their radar network showed no such unidentified aircraft entering or traversing their airspace. It would seem highly unlikely given such information that a Boeing 777 could indeed slip through undetected.

As a hobby pilot and aviation enthusiast, a theory began to form in my own mind on this 10th day as all of the latest information began to trickle in slowly through media outlets globally. After being unable to escape the idea that it may have happened, I began to do some analysis and research and what I discovered was very troubling to me!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

And to add the pertinent information - the idea is that the plane might have 'intercepted' a Singapore Airlines flight to Spain and shadowed it over sensitive airspace, flying close enough that it would not show up to casual inspection on radar. Because the transponder was off, it would not have triggered the proximity warnings.

This would give the plane the ability to fly over India/Pakistan to the remote Central Asian Republics where it could possibly have landed. A rather elaborate scheme, but given the audacity of the hijack, quite possibly from within the cockpit, not outside the realm of possibility and within the skills of an adept pilot.

However still doesn't help with the motive issue or why, if it was a hijack or hostage taking, we have not had any publicised demands.

 

[richw]

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/p...ysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

Interesting reading and equally interesting theory.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I am not sure i share his belief of that theory, but my god that is fascinating and certainly does seem plausible at least.

I am starting to feel very uneasy about the whereabouts of this plane and what the intentions are for it. Of course it still think it is crashed somewhere, but that doesn't stop the chance of something far more malicious having occurred make me feel uneasy. If what he says is true what is to stop it appearing over London having followed something and crashing into a government building? I know this is over the top but they say once you eliminate the impossible whatever is left, no matter how improbable, are the possibilities.

My other question is, Military Radar picks up an Airliner going vastly off course? Why was nothing sent to intercept?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

If what he says is true what is to stop it appearing over London having followed something and crashing into a government building? I know this is over the top but they say once you eliminate the impossible whatever is left, no matter how improbable, are the possibilities.

While a possibility, I don't think this seems like a suicide hijacking, the amount of resources required to land and refuel the plane would make it a very risky endeavour and I wouldn't be surprised if radar in European air space is being far more closely monitored at present.

 

[YorkshireBear]

While a possibility, I don't think this seems like a suicide hijacking, the amount of resources required to land and refuel the plane would make it a very risky endeavour and I wouldn't be surprised if radar in European air space is being far more closely monitored at present.

Well yes i agree. I was going through the very, bordering on almost certainly impossible, far-fetched theory.

I wasn't suggesting suicide hacking, more planned attack....

And i imagine radar is currently being very closely monitored everywhere...

 

[34D]

My other question is, Military Radar picks up an Airliner going vastly off course? Why was nothing sent to intercept?

Maybe they did

 

[Tim R-T-C]

My other question is, Military Radar picks up an Airliner going vastly off course? Why was nothing sent to intercept?

That came up quite early on in proceedings, the defence minister there admitted to major failings, however really considering that Malaysia is not a nation at war or at any real threat, it is probably just a reflection of a lax attitude to air monitoring. Perhaps they expected ATC to inform them if a plane was acting suspiciously, not expecting it to be made to 'disappear'.

Maybe they did

Well this was one of the first theories, that the plane had been accidentally or deliberately shot down (if it was being used as a terrorist weapon), but TBH particularly in the case of the latter I imagine that they would have admitted to it by now, particularly if the plane was flying off course.

 

[Crossover]

If it's faulty, interfering with other equipment etc.

When you have to protect the plane from the pilot the game's over really.

Yeah, fair point!

 

[fowler9]

I still reckon the truth is going to be massively less weird than all the stories being put out. The thing is the press are publishing every last bit of info they hear. A777 is a really big plane. It would be hard to steal one, land it somewhere for some nefarious purpose and for it not to be found, especially with the likes of the NSA about unless all of their intelligence gathering is useless. If terrorists have managed to steal one and hide it then they are really insane because there would have been much easier ways to cause carnage with it right away.

Here are a few ideas, terrorists hijacked it and crashed it in the sea by accident and it can't be found. Terrorists hijacked it and it got shot down but no one is being told because it would go down really badly with the public. It wasn't hijacked and just crashed and no one found it. It wasn't hijacked and crashed but Boeing don't want anyone to know.

Moving to the less likely. The pilots managed to hijack it, land it safely and the terrorist group involved overcame and subdued everyone onboard a very big plane so they could use it in the future. Why a plane that big which is hard to hide? If they aren't holding the passengers to ransom what else are they doing?

Could always be aliens or the Bermuda Triangle.

 

[IanXC]

Could always be aliens or the Bermuda Triangle.

Or its somewhere in central Asia under secret hostage talks. Perhaps a separatest group from the west of China?

Reports the morning that China are searching their western provinces...

I agree these events seem unlikely, but why go to all the trouble of making the plane disappear if they intended to crash it, or hold it hostage?

 

[fowler9]

Or its somewhere in central Asia under secret hostage talks. Perhaps a separatest group from the west of China?

Reports the morning that China are searching their western provinces...

I agree these events seem unlikely, but why go to all the trouble of making the plane disappear if they intended to crash it, or hold it hostage?

True mate. Ah well, I'm sure we will find out eventually, or maybe not.

 

[YorkshireBear]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-03-14/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane/

'People on remote Maldives island 'saw low flying jet'
A "low flying jumbo jet" was seen by people on the remote Maldives island of Kuda Huvadhoo on the morning of the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, a news website in the Maldives reports.

People on Kuda Huvadhoo (point A) saw a "low flying jumbo jet". Credit: Google Maps
Islanders told Haveeru a white aircraft with red stripes across it - which would match the missing plane - was seen travelling North to South-East towards Addu, the southern tip of the Maldives.

An eyewitness told the website: "I've never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We've seen seaplanes, but I'm sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly.

"It's not just me either, several other residents have reported seeing the exact same thing. Some people got out of their houses to see what was causing the tremendous noise too."

The last "ping" received from the missing flight was received somewhere close to the Maldives and the US naval base on Diego Garcia, the website reported.

Interesting.... if true that ruins the shadowed another plane theory.

 

[fowler9]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-03-14/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane/



Interesting.... if true that ruins the shadowed another plane theory.

If its true and the eyewitness could make out the doors clearly then it was was at final approach altitude and the pilot was somehow flying it like a fighter jet or he was talking about Jim Morrison. A 777 which is a similar size to a 747 doing a low pass like a fighter jet and a week and a bit later people are suddenly mentioning it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-03-14/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane/



Interesting.... if true that ruins the shadowed another plane theory.

Several other residents mentioned it, honestly, a plane that big flying that low wouldn't be an "oh by the way, did you notice?"

 

[Tim R-T-C]

A 777 which is a similar size to a 747 doing a low pass like a fighter jet and a week and a bit later people are suddenly mentioning it?

Or perhaps given the remote nature of the island, they have only just been interviewed. Not everyone in the world has internet access and they may have been completely unaware of the whole missing jet story which would make their unusual story into something interesting and important.

This story has been mentioned elsewhere with the caveat that for it to be daylight, the plane would have to have been flying around for a long time before getting to the island and would have been very low on fuel. Plus, despite the mention of Diego Garcia on the ITV report, that island with its big US run airbase (obviously quickly the source of many CIA hijacking conspiracy stores) is over 1000 miles south and would certainly have been beyond the range of the airliner at that time in the morning.

Indeed given the reported height of the plane, a crash site would surely only be a few miles distant if it was MH370 and this could be very quickly verified. Interestingly there is no mention of what happened to the plane after it was seen, whether it climbed away or kept flying across the sea at low level.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps a separatist group from the west of China? Reports the morning that China are searching their western provinces.

Well, it is common knowledge that there has been bitter strife between the Han Chinese and the Muslim Uighur populations in the western Xinjiang province over recent years and threats have been made many times that the Uighars would attack Chinese interests through "brother Muslims" to strike back for their oppression.

I note the ethnic make-up of the majority of the passengers on this flight and that the flight departed from a Muslim country.

Could just be a coincidence.

 

[fowler9]

Or perhaps given the remote nature of the island, they have only just been interviewed. Not everyone in the world has internet access and they may have been completely unaware of the whole missing jet story which would make their unusual story into something interesting and important.

This story has been mentioned elsewhere with the caveat that for it to be daylight, the plane would have to have been flying around for a long time before getting to the island and would have been very low on fuel. Plus, despite the mention of Diego Garcia on the ITV report, that island with its big US run airbase (obviously quickly the source of many CIA hijacking conspiracy stores) is over 1000 miles south and would certainly have been beyond the range of the airliner at that time in the morning.

Indeed given the reported height of the plane, a crash site would surely only be a few miles distant if it was MH370 and this could be very quickly verified. Interestingly there is no mention of what happened to the plane after it was seen, whether it climbed away or kept flying across the sea at low level.

If it was going that low and slow that the eyewitness could see the doors clearly I'd be amazed that the person interviewing him couldn't see the plane or at least the wreckage. I've been on a 777-200ER for 13 hours and that kind of plane is stretching its legs then without messing around with mad manoeuvers.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I doubt that we will ever find out, except by some extreme stroke of luck, what has happened to it. Personally my opinion is that there was some kind of incapacitating incident involving the crew, the plane kept flying (can go a very long way in 7 hours) and now it's at the bottom of a very deep ocean somewhere.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I think an accident would be the most re-assuring in a way because the alternative is a thriller-film style in-flight hijacking, possibly by the pilot or co-pilot and evasion of radar to a secret landing site for purposes unknown.

However if it is an accident there are certainly some questions unanswered. One of the communications devices shut-down or was turned off before the final radio call which seemed routine so any fire would have to have been smouldering unnoticed for a while and the turn to the left was made by a change to the auto-pilot heading, not by manual controls, which you would expect if it was an emergency situation.

The lack of mayday message would suggest it all happened very quickly, but the fire (if it was one) would have to have been strong enough to disable the transponder and disable the crew without damaging the plane enough to cause it to crash. It would also belie the information received from radar that suggested considerable altitude changes.

The latest reports are that Thai radar picked up the plane which if correct would mean a definite further course change and that could really only be due to a deliberate taking of control.