Major new electrification projects to be anounced shortly

[northwichcat]

Well these maps don't appear to make any sense at all, since we have electrification on TPE-North to Selby but not Hull and no connection to the ECML at all.

As per another document the illustrated proposal for North TPE and related services is:

* Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle (half hourly) EMU
* Manchester Airport – Piccadilly – Victoria – Leeds –York (half hourly) EMU
* Hourly Piccadilly-Selby (semi-fast) EMU
* Hourly Piccadilly-Hull (semi-fast) DMU
* Hourly Blackpool-Scarborough DMU
* Selby/Leeds to Wakefield via Huddersfield service split up.

 

[HSTEd]

As per another document the illustrated proposal for North TPE and related services is:

* Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle (half hourly) EMU
* Manchester Airport – Piccadilly – Victoria – Leeds –York (half hourly) EMU
* Hourly Piccadilly-Selby (semi-fast) EMU
* Hourly Piccadilly-Hull (semi-fast) DMU
* Hourly Blackpool-Scarborough DMU
* Selby/Leeds to Wakefield via Huddersfield service split up.

Why would you cut the EMU service back to Selby though? It seems a rather strange place to do so

 

[northwichcat]

Why would you cut the EMU service back to Selby though? It seems a rather strange place to do so

It'd be instead of the current Northern Manchester Vic-Leeds-Selby and Selby-Bradford-Wakefield working.

 

[John55]

Why would you cut the EMU service back to Selby though? It seems a rather strange place to do so

I presume because it is a short distance beyond the Hambledon Junctions. So the ECML can access Leeds via the east and for very little extra money Selby can be served.

But still remember this is not fixed, there are all the arguments between the DfT, NR and ORR about affordability etc etc before anything is certain to go ahead.

 

[swt_passenger]

Selby wiring extension also allows for the Leeds Horseshoe proposal of GNER doesn't it? Assuming there'll be a wired connection where the line crosses the Selby diversion. (Is that Hambleton Jn?)

 

[Class377/5]

Also there's a map showing electrification from Heathrow to GWML. From the west.

 

[WatcherZero]

Also there's a map showing electrification from Heathrow to GWML. From the west.

Its a new rail line, mentioned a lot last week.

 

[The Ham]

This news item seams to be saying that some of the previously announced electrification (Liverpool, Manchester and Blackpool) will be part funded by Europe:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...GHT-IMPROVEMENTS-1b12/SearchCategoryID-8.aspx

 

[tbtc]

Doncaster / Leeds - Sheffeild and Birmingham - Derby seem odd gaps

They do seem like odd gaps.

My optimistic trusting side is reading this as "the current electrification schemes will take at least five years to build, so they could announce electrification of these gaps in a couple of years time, maybe when there's an election on the horizon, without it affecting how long it'll take to complete the affected sections". Or is that my cynical side? :-/

 

[sprinterguy]

Selby wiring extension also allows for the Leeds Horseshoe proposal of GNER doesn't it? Assuming there'll be a wired connection where the line crosses the Selby diversion. (Is that Hambleton Jn?)

Yes that will indeed incorporate the GNER proposed Leeds Horseshoe, and yes it is Hambleton Junction where the line to Hull crosses the Selby diversion, where if you look closely on the HLOS electrification map it indicates that the the junction is intended to be electrified.

 

[snail]

They do seem like odd gaps.

My optimistic trusting side is reading this as "the current electrification schemes will take at least five years to build, so they could announce electrification of these gaps in a couple of years time, maybe when there's an election on the horizon, without it affecting how long it'll take to complete the affected sections". Or is that my cynical side? :-/

No. Very little (if any) of the recent electrification announcements were included in CP4.

 

[Johnuk123]

This news item seams to be saying that some of the previously announced electrification (Liverpool, Manchester and Blackpool) will be part funded by Europe:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...GHT-IMPROVEMENTS-1b12/SearchCategoryID-8.aspx

I hate this term "European funding"

If it ever happens it won't be part funded by Europe at all it will be paid for by us.

Europe has no money except what is given to it by countries like us.

When you take out your wages from the bank you wouldn't call it bank funding would you ?

 

[sprinterguy]

They do seem like odd gaps.

My optimistic trusting side is reading this as "the current electrification schemes will take at least five years to build, so they could announce electrification of these gaps in a couple of years time, maybe when there's an election on the horizon, without it affecting how long it'll take to complete the affected sections". Or is that my cynical side? :-/

The Sheffield - Wakefield/Doncaster electrification gap seems the strangest one of all IMO. There are not an insignificant number of EMT services that extend to/from Leeds, and if Network Rail are intent on creating an "electric spine" for freight traffic then surely the link between Sheffield and Doncaster is of critical importance (with Birmingham - Derby not far behind).

It seems a bizarre set of circumstances that sees proposed the conversion of third rail electric routes to OHL operation and the electrification of mothballed (Bicester - Bletchley) or distinctly secondary "backwater" routes (Oxford - Bicester, Bletchley - Bedford, Coventry - Nuneaton) for the principal benefit of container traffic while principal trunk legs (Sheffield - Doncaster, Birmingham - Derby) that themselves witness a heavy container traffic and would very much help further the full electrification of the Crosscountry network are neglected.

I hope that todays' announced electrification proposals will be refined by Network Rail before the plans are finalised, to include such obvious links as Selby to Hull, Birmingham to Derby and Sheffield to Doncaster/Leeds. Although of course, what has been announced today already comprises a very ambitious programme of works to be completed by the end of the decade.

The electric spine proposal seems to open up almost every regional route to easy extensions of the electrified network in the CP6 period, such as Banbury – Marylebone and Birminghams’ Snow Hill lines, as well as the missing links between Birmingham and Derby, and Sheffield and Doncaster/Wakefield.

 

[Skymonster]

They do seem like odd gaps.

My optimistic trusting side is reading this as "the current electrification schemes will take at least five years to build, so they could announce electrification of these gaps in a couple of years time, maybe when there's an election on the horizon, without it affecting how long it'll take to complete the affected sections". Or is that my cynical side? :-/

HLOS clearly states that Sheffield north and Derby-Birmngham is expected to be in CP6

Andy

 

[Class377/5]

Its a new rail line, mentioned a lot last week.

Ah I must have missed the fact it was to be from the GWML as I've seen the Airtrack Lite idea.

 

[yorksrob]

In addition to the gaps mentioned, it's a shame that the opportunity hasn't been taken to add the Harrogate loop to the electrification scheme.

That said, it's all good news if it goes ahead.

 

[tbtc]

It seems a bizarre set of circumstances that sees proposed the conversion of third rail electric routes to OHL operation and the electrification of mothballed (Bicester - Bletchley) or distinctly secondary "backwater" routes (Oxford - Bicester, Bletchley - Bedford, Coventry - Nuneaton) for the principal benefit of container traffic while principal trunk legs (Sheffield - Doncaster, Birmingham - Derby) that themselves witness a heavy container traffic and would very much help further the full electrification of the Crosscountry network are neglected

Yeah, I'm not sure why some routes are going from mothballing to full electrification (both the "East West" line and the only recently re-opened Ebbw Vale line) whilst "bigger" routes don't see that kind of investment.

But, they've announced more than enough to be getting on with so I don't want to sound churlish

 

[swt_passenger]

No. Very little (if any) of the recent electrification announcements were included in CP4.

Well made point. GWML and the 'Northern triangle' are happening in CP4 but were not even being thought about when the CP4 HLOS was being written.

Likewise TP north was announced outside the HLOS procedures.

 

[tbtc]

HLOS clearly states that Sheffield north and Derby-Birmngham is expected to be in CP6

Andy

Cheers Andy

Hard to keep up with various news sites at the moment

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah, I'm not sure why some routes are going from mothballing to full electrification (both the "East West" line and the only recently re-opened Ebbw Vale line) whilst "bigger" routes don't see that kind of investment.

Maybe it's been well thought through and it is about removing small pockets of DMUs on discrete sections where they can, to allow cascades to (or back to) the larger DMU areas?

Like LM's two units that operate Marston Vale on a 'long lead' from Tysely for instance?

 

[tbtc]

Maybe it's been well thought through and it is about removing small pockets of DMUs on discrete sections where they can, to allow cascades to (or back to) the larger DMU areas?

Like LM's two units that operate Marston Vale on a 'long lead' from Tysely for instance?

True, both Ebbw Vale and the "East West" line should be fairly self contained.

In fairness to "the powers that be", electrifying the gaps in XC is always going to be tricky - you could wire up the Moorthorpe/Doncaster - Sheffield section and the Derby - Water Orton section but that wouldn't "save" any diesels because the line from Birmingham to Bristol will still be unelectrified.

(However I'd argue that the Moorthorpe - Sheffield line would be justified by the local DMU service from Leeds to Sheffield, though am probably biased in this respect)

 

[John55]

Cheers Andy

Hard to keep up with various news sites at the moment

Then why not look at the DfT site and look at all the documents especially "The Railways Act 2005 Statement" where the policy is explained and the other documents then give more detail of what the Government expects the railway to deliver.

 

[tbtc]

Then why not look at the DfT site and look at all the documents especially "The Railways Act 2005 Statement" where the policy is explained and the other documents then give more detail of what the Government expects the railway to deliver.

Mainly because I'm on my lunch break and I've come here first to try to make sense of all the spin/hype/announcements. There's a lot to take in today...

 

[fgwrich]

Going off on a tangent for a moment - Interesting, i didn't realise that Chicken Curve / Wiring through Toddington / Replacement of 1st Gen DMUs were that important, as this picture appeared on the BBC News's electrification announcement during the 1 o clock news!

Nice one BBC, it's normally rather older pictures they seem to use but this?!

 

[Batman]

Good news about Rugeley-Walsall. Something I thought I'd never see.

Is this being done just so the Chase can be used as a diversionary route, or will EMU's become the staple passenger traction on the line?

 

[sprinterguy]

Good news about Rugeley-Walsall. Something I thought I'd never see.

Is this being done just so the Chase can be used as a diversionary route, or will EMU's become the staple passenger traction on the line?

It would be ludicrous not to transfer the Rugeley local services over to electric operation if the route gets electrified.

 

[Batman]

It would be ludicrous not to transfer the Rugeley local services over to electric operation if the route gets electrified.

Knowing London Midland, anything could happen.

And would this mean re-developing the local stations as well?

 

[northwichcat]

Nice one BBC, it's normally rather older pictures they seem to use but this?!

Well there's been talk about returning to the golden age of railways!

 

[David Dunning]

Going off on a tangent for a moment - Interesting, i didn't realise that Chicken Curve / Wiring through Toddington / Replacement of 1st Gen DMUs were that important, as this picture appeared on the BBC News's electrification announcement during the 1 o clock news!

Nice one BBC, it's normally rather older pictures they seem to use but this?!

Im glad someone else saw that. I thought I was dreaming for a moment

 

[rail-britain]

I am confirming £16 billion of public support for rail in this period, which will support £9.4 billion of infrastructure enhancement. £5.2bn of this has previously been committed, including Thameslink, Crossrail and electrification of the Great Western Main Line and in the North West and Yorkshire. The additional £4.2bn includes

I sent an enquiry to DfT about this, but not had a response
Is it just me, or does this not add up?
£5.2bn previously announced
£4.2bn announced today
Totals £9.4bn
So where did the £16bn come from?

Noted that -
West Coast trains are defined to use 11 car Class 390 trains between :
Euston - Birmingham

Cross Country to extend existing services with additional diesel rolling stock

TPE increase to half hourly electric services between
Liverpool and Newcastle
Manchester Airport and York

East Midlands Trains complete replacement of existing diesel fleet

The next issue is whether the Frieght companies will be actively encouraged to use electic locos, as many such services have transferred from electric to diesel many years ago

Sadly Cross Country do not really benefit as diesel trains will still be required on routes to the South West of Birmingham
Hopefully this will not see these routes split further, however it makes it ideal for HST usage throughout