Mac or PC

[Buffer68]

Just wonder how many people on this forum use an Apple Macintosh computer. If so have you always had Mac or are you a recent convert? I have always had Macs and I have my own business as a Mac consultant.

 

[466.networkers]

Last time we had this discussion, PC won by a long shot ... :P

I own 2 Windows based computers - a Packard Bell desktop and an Acer Aspire One netbook.

I would like to buy a Macbook to replace my desktop when I have the money, I have always been a Mac fan (not a fanboi :P), but have until now, stuck to Windows or Linux.

 

[anthony263]

I dont have a mac at the present time although i used to have one before it broke, i do wish i still have it as the 3 pcs i have now are terrible, for viruses etc and i have found macs to be simeple to use unlike pc's

 

[ruanerichard]

i have mac and a netbook but im impressed with the macs performance

 

[generalvegitable]

I HATE Apple, and Microsoft, give me Linux any day, But I am stuck with windows because I am on a wired network and linux can screw with wireless networks. and it is against the mac TOS to install it onto a pc

 

[Aictos]

I've always used Windows yet a few years ago I brought myself a iMAc which lasted quite some time, not only did I find it easy to use but I had no issues with virus's like I do encounter with Windows.

I don't know if it's the design of the Apple products but I just like them, I'm no fanboy though as the main fault I have with them is the cost but I guess if you want something with quality then you've just got to pay more.

 

[paul1609]

Ive had Apples for about five years now and theres no way I'd buy a PC now.
Ive recently bought a netbook which runs on Ubuntu and its by far the best linux distribution Ive seen, I still think it has a long way to go to match OS X though.

 

[Broken Viking]

Just my ha'penneth worth...
As a long-standing PC user and one who's generally distrustful of any inflexible, unmodifiable and proprietry system, I've always been one for giving Apple products a wide berth...Especially after trying a test install of iTunes 7 (Win32) on a quarantined box a while ago and finding that it was uploading parts of my music collection to Apple (And possibly other places) without requesting or having been given any consent from me to allow such behavior whatsoever. Additionally, the free version of Quicktime trojanises FireFox (And maybe other browsers) during installation! hock:

As a result, I generally give all Apple products - iPod and iTunes especially - A very wide berth where possible, and I'd only really consider using MacOS on a system that was intended for audio/video editing and other artistic applications...Given that the Mac is a much better platform for such uses, and also for those who have very little computing experience.

Even with the above in mind though, one Mac that I would consider buying - If I had the cash to do so - Would have to be the Mac Pro...Even though my first tasks would be adding WinXP Pro and WinNT Server 2003 to BootCamp!
Even though it's designed to be a high-powered workstation; The hefty processing grunt and adaptibility of the 'Pro would make it ideal for domestic and small business server applications, and would be excellent as a pure number crunching system as well! 8)

A final thought aimed at all Apple customers in the forum: Have ye ever tried reading the plural for "Mac" backwards?... hock:

 

[jon0844]

I've been a Mac convert for a number of years, although I still own a couple of PCs.

I think OS X is easier for most people, and the apps are much more slick. I've played around with iPhoto 09 and made some photo books, and the face tagging and geo tagging is just excellent. Syncing data is easy (with MobileMe, Bluetooth or SyncML) and everything just works without loads of horrible drivers.

But, I've also used Windows 7 and that's pretty decent. Actually, my PC with Vista has been pretty much perfect and never crashes - and can be let on for weeks at a time. I also can't remember the last time I had a virus - maybe 1 or 2 in 10 years. Fact is, unless you're the type of person that falls for phishing emails, you won't get a virus.

I do wish Apple would stop trying to keep that myth going as viruses don't just arrive from nowhere!

 

[Daniel]

I have an iMac, a Macbook, (am soon getting a MacbookPro), and an iPhone.

Also have a Dell XPS, a custom build PC, and a Windows Veesta laptop.

All have different uses. But personally, I prefer Macs. At the end of the day with Macs, if you dont like the operating system, you can install Windows on them. If you have a Windows, you can't install Macs.

 

[jon0844]

I have an iPhone, MacBook Pro (1 year old, already two generations old!) and a lovely 24-inch iMac at work! I also have a Mac Mini at home too, and with MobileMe every single machine is always synced up - which I love!

My PC has the large HDD capacity and some software that you can't get on a Mac - but over the last year, I am using it less and less (although I am writing this post on my PC, and was using the Mac earlier). Using the Opera web browser means I have all my web bookmarks synchronised too - even my history/last visited sites!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I finally converted last November after having been wanting to convert for some years. I bought a refurbed white macbook for just short of £600, good machine, but kept having problems with hard drives failing for no reason, the 3rd time it happened they took the machine in for more extensive testing, and they then decided to give me a brand spanking new aluminium unibody macbook which I would consider a good result.
The quality of the machine itself is fantastic and a few mates are jealous lol.
Mac OSX itself just works as apple market it, it's so simple but effective to use, and I love it. Unfortunately I still have to use Windows on a daily basis, but my only regret is not converting earlier!

 

[asylumxl]

You got a new Mac. Do you not see any issue in the fact your previous one kept breaking in the first place?

 

[thelem]

I switched to Macs by getting a Mac Mini in 2005 and now use a unibody MacBook. I am a little bit of a fanboy, but I can see apple's faults - mostly relating to cost, over hyping and attracting too many fanboys!

RE Death: I'm surprised about your comments about your music collection being uploaded to apple without your consent. I assume this was related to either album artwork or genius playlist features, which you definitely get prompted about now. Maybe that prompt was missing when the features were first introduced?

Regarding locked systems, that's a complex issue as different systems are locked in different ways and for different reasons. For example when the iPod/iTunes Apple had no choice but to include DRM in the package, but there wasn't a widely adopted format to do so, so they created their own. As a conventient side-effect, this meant you became locked into the iPod or complex work arounds if you wanted to keep your music. Thankfully the labels have seen sense and Apple no longer uses DRM in iTunes.

Tying the Mac OS to Apple hardware helps them keep up prices and income, but also means they have more control of quality and helps make the system more stable (one of the problems every times there is a new version of Windows is that old hardware is not always supported. Because Apple supports a much smaller set of hardware, it is easier to support it.)

 

[Aussie_Rail]

I prefer PC, simply because I know how to use it and I once tried to use a Mac and had major problems with it, so it's PC for me.

 

[EWS 58038]

I prefere a MAC. Have a 24" iMac and it runs as a canonball. I hate the slow start-ups and inconveinience of Wintendows machines. Even MSTS runs faster on a Mac then on a PC.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

You got a new Mac. Do you not see any issue in the fact your previous one kept breaking in the first place?

Not at all, anything can have it's faults, and it just happened my original refurbed macbook had a fault that couldn't be pinpointed. After having had the hard drive replaced twice, I was given the option of having a new logic board and hard drive again or a new machine, which is a no brainer when the new machine is worth a damn sight more.
If anything Apple's customer service was second to none compared to most other companies I've had dealings with.
The fact of the matter is, there was a fault, they tried and failed to rectify the fault, and to put it right they gave me a new machine = happy customer.

 

[asylumxl]

Not at all, anything can have it's faults, and it just happened my original refurbed macbook had a fault that couldn't be pinpointed.

When stability and reliability are supposed to be the key selling points for the Macs, this doesn't really inspire confidence. Yes, you got a new Mac, but if Macs are so reliable, you'd never have got it.

In the end a lot of it's made in China, in the same factories as non dedicated mac components, and too have questionable build. At college we had a Mac that smelt like it was on fire when it overheated.

 

[Broken Viking]

Just another brief one from me again, so apologies for rushed typing and spelling errors!

I bought a refurbed white macbook for just short of £600, good machine, but kept having problems with hard drives failing for no reason...

You got a new Mac. Do you not see any issue in the fact your previous one kept breaking in the first place?

Ye had a Mac and wondered why the hard drives inside kept failing?!?!?

This is exactly why I prefer the PC AT(X) approach to computers. Apple make the terrible mistake of assuming that none of their customers would ever understand how to replace a failed hard drive, and therefore deliberateley build their machines in such a way that they can only be maintained by those with access to special tools. On the other hand, to replace a hard drive in an ATX PC requires only a small knowlege of ATA connections and a Phillips screwdriver! 8)

If I ever find myself in the same scenario - Which is fairly possible, given that my main machine has a budget grade Seagate HDD in it - All I'll have to do is wander out to PC World for a new HDD and install it myself. Including the walk to/from PCW, installing the HDD itself, then installing Windows and restoring my last backup, the whole recovery process shouldn't take me more than two hours - And that's much faster than Apple Support could ever do it! :razz:
(P.S: I could've bought myself two brand new Dell laptops or desktops with the £600,- that ye spent on that second-hand Mac! )

RE Death: I'm surprised about your comments about your music collection being uploaded to apple without your consent. I assume this was related to either album artwork or genius playlist features, which you definitely get prompted about now. Maybe that prompt was missing when the features were first introduced?

Bear in mind that my experience was with the Windows version of iTunes 7 and was a fair while ago, and things may have changed a bit since then. Given how long ago it was though, I doubt that such iTunes traffic could've been for "Genius" related purposes. Indeed, I'm wishing Id've kept the packet traces from Ethereal (Nowadays "WireShark", a network analysis tool popular with Hackers) now as proof of my previous findings!

Regarding locked systems, that's a complex issue as different systems are locked in different ways and for different reasons. For example when the iPod/iTunes Apple had no choice but to include DRM in the package, but there wasn't a widely adopted format to do so, so they created their own. As a conventient side-effect, this meant you became locked into the iPod or complex work arounds if you wanted to keep your music. Thankfully the labels have seen sense and Apple no longer uses DRM in iTunes.

Personally, I don't have an issue with DRM at all and indeed I would even say kudos to Apple for creating a format that ensures good copyright retention when no existing format would suffice! 8)

My main issue here is more with the iPod itself: It's a media player, with firmware and databases and all user files stored on a hard-drive - Not some piece of über-secret Pentagon technology - And the user should have full access to all areas of said HDD via any standardised means, such as via USB or COM connections.
In plain English, what I'm saying is that - From the very get-go - The iPod should've been usable in exactly the same way as a removable USB HDD, with every part of the disk (Boot sector, partition and file sectors etc) made available to the user...As opposed to what Apple have done, and that's render the whole device completely unusable until the user eventually caves in to ignorance and installs Apple's malware all over their system!

Personally, when I get home with a brand new MP3 player, I want to be able to connect that MP3 player to my PC and have Windows (Or whatever OS) recognise it's native filesystem, mount it automatically, and allow me to drag/drop my music collection onto it there and then!

Tying the Mac OS to Apple hardware helps them keep up prices and income, but also means they have more control of quality and helps make the system more stable.

I suppose that compatibility issues are a good reason for limiting the architecture upon which an OS may run, although the troth that ye speak of Apple trying to keep their prices up reaffirms my view that Apple are even more proprietry and untrustworthy than Microsoft...Do Apple so soon forget that 90% of MacOS was actually built on FreeBSD - A free and open-source computing environment similar in many ways to Linux?

In my view, the user should be given the freedom to make their own choice of operating system (Linux, Windows, MacOS or whatever) and accept the consequences, if any. I've never tried installing MacOS on a PC or similar system, but from thy words I presume that MacOS would refuse to install itself onto anything that doesn't have an Apple signature in the BIOS ROM?

Surely what should happen is that MacOS detects the non-Mac hardware as normal, then warns the user about possible compatibility issues and that no guarentee is given that MacOS will work properly on that machine whatsoever...But then the user is still given the choice whether to install MacOS or not. 8)

I Have a 24" iMac and it runs like a canonball...

So presumably it's big, heavy, difficult to use, even more difficult to move between rooms, requires a bigger and heavier bit of Iron piping, works best in conjunction with a large volume of gunpowder, and can only operate in relatively straight lines?

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[jon0844]

Buy a Mac Pro and you can add and remove components as you see fit. An iMac is basically a laptop in a desktop casing, as is a Mac Mini. That's why they're small and perfect for people who don't want to go tinkering with the graphics card or other components.

For the record, it's pretty easy to change the HDD or add RAM to a iMac, MacBook or even a Mac Mini (yes, you'll need to prise open the case, but it's not difficult really). Beyond that, you are indeed limited - but most people who buy a PC in a big tower/midi casing have no intention of opening it and would prefer the small design.

No wonder companies like Asus are doing well selling their equivalent of a Mac Mini, including the type that attaches the back of your LCD monitor. A lot of people don't want a large casing sitting on their desk or on the floor.

One area where Apple has lagged behind is the netbook market. Apple says it isn't interested in this (which is a blatant lie - just like when Steve Jobs told me that 3G wasn't needed in the iPhone when he was in London in 2007!) but you just know they'll enter the market very soon. It will have a premium, but people won't care - they'll be paying to buy into a brand and a lifestyle and pay accordingly.

Apple is quite unique in this. The nearest I can imagine the PC market getting is when Sony could charge a hefty premium for their VAIO range.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

This is exactly why I prefer the PC AT(X) approach to computers. Apple make the terrible mistake of assuming that none of their customers would ever understand how to replace a failed hard drive, and therefore deliberateley build their machines in such a way that they can only be maintained by those with access to special tools. On the other hand, to replace a hard drive in an ATX PC requires only a small knowlege of ATA connections and a Phillips screwdriver! 8)

Thats ignorance right there, because both the macbook's i've had have come with detailed instructions how to easily exchange ram and hdd's, in fact on this macbook, I only have to remove the battery cover, undo a screw and disconnect the cable - job done
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When stability and reliability are supposed to be the key selling points for the Macs, this doesn't really inspire confidence. Yes, you got a new Mac, but if Macs are so reliable, you'd never have got it.

I don't think thats the point at all, there is always going to be a lemon at some point, not everything can always come out of the factory fault-free and thats just a fact of life.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've never tried installing MacOS on a PC or similar system, but from thy words I presume that MacOS would refuse to install itself onto anything that doesn't have an Apple signature in the BIOS ROM?

It's not entirely fault free, it took me a good few hours to get OSX running on my AMD Athlon 64 X2 based PC, but when I did finally get it going it ran well - but then you run into the problem of getting drivers or kexts as they are known in the osx86 world.

 

[Broken Viking]

...It will have a premium, but people won't care - they'll be paying to buy into a brand and a lifestyle and pay accordingly.
Apple is quite unique in this. The nearest I can imagine the PC market getting is when Sony could charge a hefty premium for their VAIO range.

This is another reason why I try and avoid Apple products. Putting aside the fact that my sole income is through DoSS benefits (Due to perfectly legitimate and unavoidable circumstances) and I probabally couldn't afford a new Mac without some serious saving up and very wry management of my budget anyway, I personally don't like this whole "lifestyle" that Apple have somehow managed to make of their product range, and want to disassociate myself from the whole "Apple lifestyle" as much as possible.

In my own mind - And your opinion may vary here, so no flaming please - Acceptable "core" factors in any form of lifestyle include the lines of personal beliefs (Religious, political, social etc), defence and support of ones own caste (Subculture and similar, incl. lifestyle by sexual orientation), and following of values/virtues that are close to ones own heart.
The whole "Apple lifestyle" on the other hand is based on none of the above - Insted, it is based entirely on consumerist values - And ones own standing within the iLife community is not determined by ones acts or ones deeds for good or evil, but insted it is determined entirely by the amount of money that they have in their bank accounts (I.E: The highest ranking members of that "community" always have the latest model of iPhone and MacBook)...And in my view, a society where ones status is determined entirely by bank balance or worldly goods is a society that should be despised, and Slaughtered in the most Bloody and inhumane manner before it has a chance to lay it's pestilent hand upon all of our shoulders!

As a consequence of it's money driven manner and practices, in my opinion the whole Apple "lifestyle" isn't just completely invalid in the context of lifestyle and living, but it's also something that could also do with being bought to an end as soon as possible. I wouldn't have a problem with a traditional Apple user community or an iPod owners club, but the way that Apple have managed to seed their products and software as "essential" components of everyday life - In a similar manner to how H.I.V/AIDS gains first a foothold in ones body, then eventually reigns it's dominion over the whole - Reeks of greed-fuelled capitalism in my view, and I would have no qualms nor concience whatsoever in rending the whole thing to pieces with my Sword!

No wonder companies like Asus are doing well selling their equivalent of a Mac Mini, including the type that attaches the back of your LCD monitor. A lot of people don't want a large casing sitting on their desk or on the floor.

I must admit that I like the look of Asus's "Revo" computer...It's a well featured micro-PC even smaller than a Nintendo Wii (I'd say about the size of 2-3 CD cases stacked) yet still has a lot of the usual computer essentials - They even managed to cram a 160Gb HDD into the thing! hock:

The real headache for me in that department though is that virtually every PC/PC-based device on sale today is intended to operate in a standalone manner, and trying to operate many of them as thin clients would be a right pain in the configuration and implementation areas!

Despite my current home computing set-up, I feel that the best configuration for my needs would be a terminal based network - With one central server that stores/carries all data and performs all processing on itself, and a few "dumb terminals" that echo an interface on the server from across the network. This would allow me to invest in a decently large and fast 2x RAID-5 disk configuration and have centralised storage and backup facilities for all of my data, whilst still having the convenience of being able to access my network and/or the Internet from terminals located anywhere within my home.

Unfortunateley, computing has moved on significantly over the past twenty years and this is no longer a feasible (Or available) option nowadays. If I could run literally everything in a DOS console, then it would be a simple matter for me to install common UNIX or Vax/VMS on a server and run everything that way...But ye try running a real-time GUI terminal over a VMS network! hock::razz:

Thats ignorance right there, because both the macbook's i've had have come with detailed instructions how to easily exchange ram and hdd's, in fact on this macbook, I only have to remove the battery cover, undo a screw and disconnect the cable - job done

Ah right...In that case, Macs have changed a bit since I last worked on one, although I will only admit ignorance in the case of latter-day Apple products. Back when I had a Performa 630 and an older Mac (One of those "retro" all-in-one B&W jobs) I had to change the HDDs in both.

The Performa was a fair pain in the ass in it's own right (Despite being laid out not unlike a PC) because of the daft and customer unfriendly design of plastic facia all over the case...And the B&W Mac was almost certainly designed so that any attempt to change any internal components would automatically and irrevocably render the machine unusable! :mad:

So far, I've been fortunate enough not to have to work on an iPod yet...But if my words above were completely unjustified, then why does the iPod have a casing that's deliberateley designed in such a way that it can only be opened by an Apple technician?

If I had designed the iPod myself, I might've made it the same as Apples current product in terms of look, feel and operation. But:...

• The back would've been secured by four standard size Phillips screws for easy customer access,
• Higher quality and longer lasting parts would've been used,
• It would've been based on a standard x86 processor and stripped-down ATX PC arrangement so that people could run the OS of their choice (Windows, Linux etc) and/or write their own firmware and operating systems for the device, and
• It would've come with a full technical reference on the driver CD-ROM to allow customers to effect their own repairs and maintenance on the device - From replacing a dead Ni-Cd battery to re-casing or completely overhauling the thing! 8)

 

[asylumxl]

I don't think thats the point at all, there is always going to be a lemon at some point, not everything can always come out of the factory fault-free and thats just a fact of life.

Just like PCs then.

 

[devon_metro]

Was in the Apple shop yesterday, and that new touchpad is just awful!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

So far, I've been fortunate enough not to have to work on an iPod yet...But if my words above were completely unjustified, then why does the iPod have a casing that's deliberateley designed in such a way that it can only be opened by an Apple technician?

If I had designed the iPod myself, I might've made it the same as Apples current product in terms of look, feel and operation. But:...

• The back would've been secured by four standard size Phillips screws for easy customer access,
• Higher quality and longer lasting parts would've been used,
• It would've been based on a standard x86 processor and stripped-down ATX PC arrangement so that people could run the OS of their choice (Windows, Linux etc) and/or write their own firmware and operating systems for the device, and
• It would've come with a full technical reference on the driver CD-ROM to allow customers to effect their own repairs and maintenance on the device - From replacing a dead Ni-Cd battery to re-casing or completely overhauling the thing! 8)

The thing is that your general public doesn't want or have a need for these features, by the time the battery is dying there are much better models out and alot of people would rather have the most up to date gadget out there... I'm certainly a bit like that. Yes user serviceability would be good, but your average person can only just about work out how to use the thing!
From what I recall there is/was a version of ipod linux written.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Was in the Apple shop yesterday, and that new touchpad is just awful!

what exactly is wrong with it, I find it a damn sight better than on my old acer laptop?

 

[VirginTrainFreak]

Pc
i hate mac's i wonder what mac stands for
M ust
A lways
C rash

 

[Broken Viking]

Pc
i hate mac's i wonder what mac stands for
M ust
A lways
C rash

Here's a few...

Machine
Always
Crashes...
If
Not,
The
Operating
Ssystem
Hangs!

Produces
Erroneous
Numbers
Through
Incorrect
Understanding of
Mathematics.

...And my personal favourite...

Most
Intelligent
Customers
Realise
Our
Software
Only
Fools
Teenagers! 8)

 

[HSTfan!!!]

tbh my mac has crashed what... once and never hangs. And to top it off it boots and shuts down a hell of a lot faster than any windows machine I've ever used.

 

[First ScotRail]

13" MacBook Aluminium 2.4ghz, very very similar spec to the new 13" MacBook Pro. Love it, wouldnt go back to windows. Got it for uni so got a mega discount as well. Now looking at an iMac to have in the home.

 

[poshbakerloo]

MCs are over priced, and have 1000000s of compatibility issues, unless your willing to pay for a special version of everything...