LU/Elizabeth Line 4G update

[MrJeeves]

Weirdly I got (fully working!) signal on o2 (LTE800) on the escalators going from Elizabeth line to moorgate entrance today, which is very deep in at the bottom. Whether this was some pre switched on testing cell or maybe some weird signal from above via a ventilation shaft, I don't know, but it worked the entire length of both long escalators. Weirdly also got EE LTE1800 (not working, as I'm on o2!) cells showing up on the Northern Line platforms at moorgate.

Maybe something is going to be imminently switched on?

Moorgate has had an EE DAS for years, hence the L18 you're seeing. The O2 signal is probably just an outdoor site propagating down the escalators.

 

[Gigabit]

Battersea Power Station Tube station has 4G on Vodafone now. Not sure if it will also be covered via the LUL scheme but Vodafone have covered it as part of the Battersea Power Station development. O2 have as well based on coverage I saw when I was last there. EE and Three had nothing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2023 ==

Moorgate has had an EE DAS for years, hence the L18 you're seeing. The O2 signal is probably just an outdoor site propagating down the escalators.

Didn't think the DAS reached the Underground platforms though? Perhaps just coverage over-spill

 

[JonnyM]

Battersea Power Station Tube station has 4G on Vodafone now. Not sure if it will also be covered via the LUL scheme but Vodafone have covered it as part of the Battersea Power Station development. O2 have as well based on coverage I saw when I was last there. EE and Three had nothing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2023 ==



Didn't think the DAS reached the Underground platforms though? Perhaps just coverage over-spill

Is there coverage at Nine Elms as well? Or just BPS?

 

[Gigabit]

Is there coverage at Nine Elms as well? Or just BPS?

I believe it is just Battersea Power Station

 

[MrJeeves]

I believe it is just Battersea Power Station

My friend and I visited BPS and Nine Elms yesterday and had no service at them on any of the networks.

 

[JonnyM]

I've been binge-watching several of the Hidden London Hangouts on YouTube recently and I've noticed that they visit a lot of non-public facing but still operational areas at tube stations, lifts shafts, machine rooms etc which are all hidden away from ticket halls and platforms. It got me thinking on whether the agreement with BAI/Boldyn will cover these areas as well? From what I've read the roll out is part of the Emergency Services Network so I suppose it would make sense for these areas to be covered?

 

[mrmartin]

Any updates on this? Been about a month since the last rollout.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2023 ==

Read the latest commission report (July 2023) and it just says the usual Oxford Circus, Euston and TCR is to come "later this summer".

Interestingly they also mention they are allowing operators to place small cells on tfl poles reusing the fibre from the 4g/5g project, mentioning the old street area which probably explains all the roadworks from BAI in the area. This could actually be a real money spinner for TfL as above ground cell density is only going to get greater over time and if they have fibre and power ready to go to a lot of areas it will be a very lucrative offering, compared to network operators having to wait for years for planning and power to add more masts themselves. Also I imagine the bits covered tend to be the busiest areas with the most demand for small cells?

 

[Gigabit]

My friend and I visited BPS and Nine Elms yesterday and had no service at them on any of the networks.

I have service on Vodafone and O2 at BPS.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2023 ==

Any updates on this? Been about a month since the last rollout.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2023 ==

Read the latest commission report (July 2023) and it just says the usual Oxford Circus, Euston and TCR is to come "later this summer".

Interestingly they also mention they are allowing operators to place small cells on tfl poles reusing the fibre from the 4g/5g project, mentioning the old street area which probably explains all the roadworks from BAI in the area. This could actually be a real money spinner for TfL as above ground cell density is only going to get greater over time and if they have fibre and power ready to go to a lot of areas it will be a very lucrative offering, compared to network operators having to wait for years for planning and power to add more masts themselves. Also I imagine the bits covered tend to be the busiest areas with the most demand for small cells?

Old Street has tonnes of small cells already but more density can only be a good thing.

In the City, there is already a small cell network but only O2 is currently using it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2023 ==

I just cannot see the 2024 target being hit. There's clearly some kind of problem making the rollout really slow.

 

[jon0844]

For marketing reasons as much as anything else, networks are known through history to often do a series of upgrades in one batch rather than cell by cell. You can see this with 4G and 5G upgrades, as well as adding new 4G bands or 5G 700. Then you can announce you've covered nn% of the population, or town numbers, in a press release.

With the 3G switch off, a lot of that is done in one go now many sites can be remotely controlled from a NOC.

I'm sure a lot will get done in one go, and it is a better sell for public transport than checking maps to see which stations are live or not, especially if you need to consider what network you are on.

 

[Gigabit]

For marketing reasons as much as anything else, networks are known through history to often do a series of upgrades in one batch rather than cell by cell. You can see this with 4G and 5G upgrades, as well as adding new 4G bands or 5G 700. Then you can announce you've covered nn% of the population, or town numbers, in a press release.

With the 3G switch off, a lot of that is done in one go now many sites can be remotely controlled from a NOC.

I'm sure a lot will get done in one go, and it is a better sell for public transport than checking maps to see which stations are live or not, especially if you need to consider what network you are on.

I'd like to believe this is true but I'm sceptical at the moment.

Having said that, there is infrastructure on the District Line platforms at Notting Hill Gate and on mostly all the Central Line stations between Notting Hill Gate and Liverpool Street now, as to whether they can't hook it up or not I am not sure.

 

[MrJeeves]

I have service on Vodafone and O2 at BPS.

How weird... is that even at the platform level? When I went there was literally nothing at all for any network... Maybe I just got unlucky?

Having said that, there is infrastructure on the District Line platforms at Notting Hill Gate and on mostly all the Central Line stations between Notting Hill Gate and Liverpool Street now, as to whether they can't hook it up or not I am not sure.

Likely all hooked up, but the networks haven't installed the radios or aren't ready to switch them on yet. At least at NHG, there's equipment everywhere, but only the path down to the Central Line from the ticket office has service live.

Quite the majority of sub-surface tube stations now have equipment present of some kind, but it's just not switched on.

 

[Gigabit]

How weird... is that even at the platform level? When I went there was literally nothing at all for any network... Maybe I just got unlucky?

Likely all hooked up, but the networks haven't installed the radios or aren't ready to switch them on yet. At least at NHG, there's equipment everywhere, but only the path down to the Central Line from the ticket office has service live.

Quite the majority of sub-surface tube stations now have equipment present of some kind, but it's just not switched on.

Can't see any equipment present on the Wimbledon branch of the District but my FOI request seems to imply it isn't a priority and/or won't be done anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2023 ==

@MrJeeves should be at platform level - and Vodafone's press release confirms the same

 

[BahrainLad]

I’m seeing full 5G (on EE) from Tufnell Park southbound on the Northern line. I’m posting from there right now, about to arrive at Camden Town

 

[MrJeeves]

I’m seeing full 5G (on EE) from Tufnell Park southbound on the Northern line. I’m posting from there right now, about to arrive at Camden Town

Tufnell Park to Kentish Town has been live since January. Do you have signal through the entire tunnel up to Camden Town? Until now, Kentish Town to Camden Town tunnels weren't live.

 

[BahrainLad]

Yes full signal throughout the journey from platform at TP to platform at CT. As soon as we left CT for Euston the signal started to fade and then went completely.

 

[MrJeeves]

Yes full signal throughout the journey from platform at TP to platform at CT. As soon as we left CT for Euston the signal started to fade and then went completely.

Fabulous news

 

[JonnyM]

Any updates on this? Been about a month since the last rollout.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2023 ==

Read the latest commission report (July 2023) and it just says the usual Oxford Circus, Euston and TCR is to come "later this summer".

Interestingly they also mention they are allowing operators to place small cells on tfl poles reusing the fibre from the 4g/5g project, mentioning the old street area which probably explains all the roadworks from BAI in the area. This could actually be a real money spinner for TfL as above ground cell density is only going to get greater over time and if they have fibre and power ready to go to a lot of areas it will be a very lucrative offering, compared to network operators having to wait for years for planning and power to add more masts themselves. Also I imagine the bits covered tend to be the busiest areas with the most demand for small cells?

So very slow progress all round, and with 4 weeks of meteorological summer left, TfL/BAI had better get their skates on as they have 4 weeks left for them to meet their 'later this summer' deadline. It seems odd they've announced testing on the Picc, Victoria and Bakerloo lines when they've not even finished the lines they have started.

 

[MPW]

Going from Bethnal green to bank recently I had no connection. On ee. Do I need to connect the WiFi? I'm always hesitant in public places

 

[sor]

Going from Bethnal green to bank recently I had no connection. On ee. Do I need to connect the WiFi? I'm always hesitant in public places

(speaking from a position of ignorance here where I don't know what has 4G/5G available right now, so assuming you really do mean wifi)

The EE wifi (listed as EE Wifi-Auto) should be perfectly safe to use, as it uses your SIM card's details to log you in and it is not like most public wifi hotspots as all traffic is encrypted between your phone and the access point. It is virtually like using a corporate wifi network with a login (because that is technically what it is) - in some respects it is even more secure than your wifi at home. EE already configure iPhones to do this automatically, Android devices need manual setup. If you have wifi calling enabled on your phone then this would then work also.

If you mean the actual 4G/5G network, you don't need to log into wifi to use this. It should just work like it does above ground.

The only real concern, if you can call it that, is that TfL can pull anonymised usage data (eg it will know that your phone was at stations X,Y,Z at this date/time. but not who you actually are). But then they can already do that from your travel patterns if you use Oyster or contactless...

 

[MPW]

(speaking from a position of ignorance here where I don't know what has 4G/5G available right now, so assuming you really do mean wifi)

The EE wifi (listed as EE Wifi-Auto) should be perfectly safe to use, as it uses your SIM card's details to log you in and it is not like most public wifi hotspots as all traffic is encrypted between your phone and the access point. It is virtually like using a corporate wifi network with a login (because that is technically what it is) - in some respects it is even more secure than your wifi at home. EE already configure iPhones to do this automatically, Android devices need manual setup. If you have wifi calling enabled on your phone then this would then work also.

If you mean the actual 4G/5G network, you don't need to log into wifi to use this. It should just work like it does above ground.

The only real concern, if you can call it that, is that TfL can pull anonymised usage data (eg it will know that your phone was at stations X,Y,Z at this date/time. but not who you actually are). But then they can already do that from your travel patterns if you use Oyster or contactless...

Very helpful! Thank you

 

[Gigabit]

O2 was live at Notting Hill Gate on the District again last Thursday, different network code to the macro serving the station. I assume some kind of testing

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2023 ==

Yes full signal throughout the journey from platform at TP to platform at CT. As soon as we left CT for Euston the signal started to fade and then went completely.

I think that section was next on the list.

Still quite a slow rollout, can’t think they’ll meet the deadline at this pace

 

[MrJeeves]

I believe it is just Battersea Power Station

Still nothing when I visited today...

eNB 7161 manages to reach down into the ticket hall from the surface, but that's all.

Down on the platforms: absolutely nothing except low strength and quality background noise.

 

[JonnyM]

Just a thought, but maybe TfL/BAI are waiting for a grand switch on at the same time of all the stations now equipped? Possibly ‘later in the summer’ as they state? It would generate a huge buzz and loads of publicity.

 

[Gigabit]

Still nothing when I visited today...

eNB 7161 manages to reach down into the ticket hall from the surface, but that's all.

Down on the platforms: absolutely nothing except low strength and quality background noise.

View attachment 140922

What phone and app is that?

 

[MrJeeves]

What phone and app is that?

Network Signal Guru

I think the phone in the picture is the Xiaomi 12 Pro? I think that's what my Vodafone SIM was in on the day.

 

[Gigabit]

Network Signal Guru

I think the phone in the picture is the Xiaomi 12 Pro? I think that's what my Vodafone SIM was in on the day.

You don't know what phone you own?

 

[MrJeeves]

You don't know what phone you own?

I have 5 different phones which I use regularly for network testing. I don't magically remember what phone had the Vodafone SIM in on that day, no.

Actually, judging by the icons in the status bar, it will be a Xiaomi, and must be the Xiaomi 12 Pro as I didn't take my Mi 11 with me that day.

 

[Gigabit]

I have 5 different phones which I use regularly for network testing. I don't magically remember what phone had the Vodafone SIM in on that day, no.

Actually, judging by the icons in the status bar, it will be a Xiaomi, and must be the Xiaomi 12 Pro as I didn't take my Mi 11 with me that day.

Oh I see, I only have one!

 

[JonnyM]

Not directly related to the 4G rollout, but has anyone noticed the dire speed of the station Wifi at the moment? I can understand why they may want to throttle the speeds slightly but it has been completely unusable the past few weeks, even at non-busy stations. No web browsing, no Instagram, I even tried to download an album of songs but it timed out. Ironically, I tried to download the same album of songs at a 4G equipped station and it downloaded in seconds. On Vodafone if that makes any difference.

 

[bicbasher]

Speeds have been certainly capped at Whitechapel when I was there last week. They still haven't fixed the issues on the Elizabeth line escalators where it's poor to non existent, but considerably slower on the EL and ELL (Overground) platforms.