Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[zjsptgzxyspks]

I'd suggest some changes
22 Cramond - Waterloo Place. Extended from Gyle - West Craigs - Cramond. The Granton Section is withdrawn and replaced by a revised service X4
31 no change
32 will be curtailed to Cammo terminus to improve its reliability.
X4 would run between Granton Habour - Seton Sands via WGH, Meadowbank, Piershill, A199 then A1, Wallyford, Prestonpans, Cockenzie and Seton Sands, Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings.
26 Tranent section restored
15 Waterloo Place - Penicuik extended to Penicuik via A702 and Mauricewood. Kings Rd section replaced by revised service X4. Every 30 minutes.


X5 will terminate at George St Charlotte Sq instead of Federick St and run every 30 minutes with double deckers. Every 60 minutes on Sundays. Not operating on evenings.
105 North Berwick - Fort Kinnard via Musselburgh every 60 minutes coordinating with service 106. no evening service.
124 will become a Sundays and evenings service only. Terminus changed to Haymarket, every 60 minutes on evenings, on Sundays, every 60 minutes and interwork with service X5.

X13 Haymarket - Pencaitland via A1, Wallyford, Tranent, Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings
113 Haymarket – Musselburgh - Wallyford – Tranent – Blindwells. Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings.
129 Haymarket – Musselburgh – Inveresk – Whitecraig. Every 60 minutes. This service would not operate on Sundays and evenings.
109 Haymarket – Musselburgh – Monktonhall -Old Craighall – Millerhill. Every 60 minutes, combined with service 129. This service would not operate on Sundays and evenings.
113,109 and 129 will combine to provide a limited stop bus to Musselburgh every 15 minutes.
on Sundays and evenings, 113 and 124 will provide a limited stop bus to Musselburgh every 30 minutes
X4 and X13 will provide an express bus to Wallyford every 15 minutes, then Prestonpans/Tranent every 30 minutes.

49 extended to serve Danderhall
30/30A Clovenstone – Eastfield. After Fort Kinnard, via A1 to QMU– Clayknowes or Whitehill – Olive Bank Rd- Bridge St – terminate at Eastfield. Avoiding Musselburgh High St to improve reliability.
46 Rosewell – Royal Infirmary only, with double deckers.
48 Gorebridge – Musselburgh via Newcraighall

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I'd suggest some changes
22 Cramond - Waterloo Place. Extended from Gyle - West Craigs - Cramond. The Granton Section is withdrawn and replaced by a revised service X4

I'm sure i've seen this suggested before, the Cramond extension could work, however i thought the point of the new 22 was to connect Granton to The Gyle, i feel like maybe the extension could work but retain the route to Granton.

32 will be curtailed to Cammo terminus to improve its reliability.

If the 22 extension went ahead i would say sure, otherwise the 32 should stay as it is.

X4 would run between Granton Habour - Seton Sands via WGH, Meadowbank, Piershill, A199 then A1, Wallyford, Prestonpans, Cockenzie and Seton Sands, Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings.

The only upside to this is that, it would provide a faster bus for Seton Sands and it mixes is up from the usual East Coast express routes via The Jewel.

15 Waterloo Place - Penicuik extended to Penicuik via A702 and Mauricewood. Kings Rd section replaced by revised service X4. Every 30 minutes.

I always thought that the 15 should be either extended beyond Bush or Kings Road, if it extended Beyond Bush at all nowadays that would be a win.

X5 will terminate at George St Charlotte Sq instead of Federick St and run every 30 minutes with double deckers. Every 60 minutes on Sundays. Not operating on evenings.

When was the last time a bus terminated at Charlotte Square? i would of made this Haymarket or Semple Street.

105 North Berwick - Fort Kinnard via Musselburgh every 60 minutes coordinating with service 106. no evening service.

Is there any demand for a North Berwick - Fort Kinnaird service? surely swapping over in Musselburgh could be fine.

124 will become a Sundays and evenings service only. Terminus changed to Haymarket, every 60 minutes on evenings, on Sundays, every 60 minutes and interwork with service X5.

Okay so your X5 change makes much more sense, i feel like if they were to do this, it would be like the old 106 serice by First that used to run to Dunbar on Sundays.

X13 Haymarket - Pencaitland via A1, Wallyford, Tranent, Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings

I feel like this would be not that much faster than the current 113, but also its cutting the Pencaitland - Musselburgh link.

113 Haymarket – Musselburgh - Wallyford – Tranent – Blindwells. Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings.

With the 26 Tranent being restored, wouldnt Tranent and Blindwells be covered anyway?

129 Haymarket – Musselburgh – Inveresk – Whitecraig. Every 60 minutes. This service would not operate on Sundays and evenings.

Not sure how popular this would be with the 140/141 and peak 44's already overing both Whitecraig and Inveresk.

49 extended to serve Danderhall

This could work, i would of done this or extended it back to Rosewell

30/30A Clovenstone – Eastfield. After Fort Kinnard, via A1 to QMU– Clayknowes or Whitehill – Olive Bank Rd- Bridge St – terminate at Eastfield. Avoiding Musselburgh High St to improve reliability.

This is also very interesting, i assume the service would be converted to double deckers? and could be split between Longstone and Marine, create some new interesting links too.

46 Rosewell – Royal Infirmary only, with double deckers.

if it was an enhanced service i would say this could work, or better yet extend it direct to the City Centre.

48 Gorebridge – Musselburgh via Newcraighall

With the 46 being cut back, will the frequency be increased?

 

[mb88]

With regards to the West Lothian local network, what are everyone’s thoughts on this proposal?

72 - amended route
Kirkliston - Fauldhouse, West End via Winchburgh, Broxburn, Uphall, FASTLINK, St. John’s, Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Eliburn, Blackburn, East Whitburn, Whitburn. Hourly service.

73 - amended route
Livingston Centre - Armadale, Honeyman Court via Howden, St John’s, Carmondean, Deans South, Boghall, Wester Inch, Bathgate Town Centre, Falside, Bathgate. Half-hourly service.

74 - no change

75 - new route
Broxburn, East Mains - Whitburn, West End via Broxburn, Uphall, Uphall Station, Pumpherston, St. John’s, Howden, Livingston Centre, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Bathgate Town Centre, Birniehill, East Whitburn. Hourly service.

I feel this addresses a few issues:
- Improves reliability on the service 72 by omitting Uphall Station, Pumpherston and Houston Industrial Estate.
- Increases Broxburn to Livingston service to half hourly.
- Restores direct link between Armadale and Livingston.
- Restores service to Livingston Village.
- Restores direct service from Whitburn West End to Livingston.
- Increases Whitburn to Livingston service to half hourly.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

With regards to the West Lothian local network, what are everyone’s thoughts on this proposal?

72 - amended route
Kirkliston - Fauldhouse, West End via Winchburgh, Broxburn, Uphall, FASTLINK, St. John’s, Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Eliburn, Blackburn, East Whitburn, Whitburn. Hourly service.

73 - amended route
Livingston Centre - Armadale, Honeyman Court via Howden, St John’s, Carmondean, Deans South, Boghall, Wester Inch, Bathgate Town Centre, Falside, Bathgate. Half-hourly service.

74 - no change

75 - new route
Broxburn, East Mains - Whitburn, West End via Broxburn, Uphall, Uphall Station, Pumpherston, St. John’s, Howden, Livingston Centre, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Bathgate Town Centre, Birniehill, East Whitburn. Hourly service.

I feel this addresses a few issues:
- Improves reliability on the service 72 by omitting Uphall Station, Pumpherston and Houston Industrial Estate.
- Increases Broxburn to Livingston service to half hourly.
- Restores direct link between Armadale and Livingston.
- Restores service to Livingston Village.
- Restores direct service from Whitburn West End to Livingston.
- Increases Whitburn to Livingston service to half hourly.

I think it works, perhaps a realistic option. It does feel underwhelming, but again it’s realistic. We won’t get what ultimately we’d want to happen.

Whitburn to Fauldhouse is best served by a bus to/from Bathgate in my opinion, the flow of passengers on/off at Whitburn Cross suggests this. However, unless you create a new route or divert the 73, this won’t happen. Blackridge I’ve no idea what will happen with.

This is my suggestion in full:

X18 - Increased to every 20 minutes. PVR increase from 8 to 12.

X19 - Withdrawn due to low usage and to better use resources elsewhere. 5 buses freed up as a result. The increased X18 would ensure a consistent city service along the A8 corridor.

X27 - Increased to every 30 minutes. From The Centre, rerouted via Howden St John’s, carrying on via Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn (not serving Ash Grove), East Whitburn to Whitburn West End. The 2 peak extras would be removed as the frequency is changed consistently so they are no longer needed.

X28 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Combined X27/X28 increased daytime vehicle requirement from 13 to 18 but 2 vehicles gained back from the peak runs.

72 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Changed to serve Craisghill after Pumpherston before continuing on via The Centre, St John’s, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Wester Inch, Morrisons and terminating at Bathgate Station. I would expect the PVR to be 8 for this.

73 - From Bathgate, rerouted to Blackridge via Lower Bathville and Armadale. To save on resources, leave this as hourly as the new 74 gives a half hourly service in the busy Bathgate to Livingston section with the Blackridge section treated as new and unproven.

74 - New hourly service Whitburn to Livingston via Longridge, Whitburn Cross, East Whitburn, J4M8, Birniehill, Morrisons and continuing on from Bathgate to Livingston via 73 route.

75 - The current 74 renumbered. No change to route, but increased to half hourly. The 73/74 would continue to interwork with the 75. The combined PVR of the 73/74/75 should total 10.

No changes to subsidised 70, 71 or X40 but I wonder if the 43 could be increased to every 15 minutes? Would only need 2 extra buses during the day to do so and this would negate the need for extra journeys in the peak. In other words, no extra vehicle resource. One of those peak extras comes off an X18 which as above has been increased, thus the loss is covered there too. It would make sense in terms of trying to avoid peak dead runs.

If we factor that in the total number of extra buses on the road this would be an overall increase of 12 vehicles on the road. If it was more resource dependent, then I would suggest the savings are made from the X18 dropping the overall increase back to 8. 841-850 are rumoured to be returning, so an increase of 8 is definitely realistic. It leaves an extra 2 spare. For an increase of 12, I would suggest adding in 464 and 1030-1032 in addition. Again leaving 2 spare.

I’d future proof an idea for this 73/74 for increase to every 30 minutes and in turn look at making the 75 every 15 minutes between Livingston and Loganlea. This one for a couple of years time.

 

[Lothianbus703]

I think it works, perhaps a realistic option. It does feel underwhelming, but again it’s realistic. We won’t get what ultimately we’d want to happen.

Whitburn to Fauldhouse is best served by a bus to/from Bathgate in my opinion, the flow of passengers on/off at Whitburn Cross suggests this. However, unless you create a new route or divert the 73, this won’t happen. Blackridge I’ve no idea what will happen with.

This is my suggestion in full:

X18 - Increased to every 20 minutes. PVR increase from 8 to 12.

X19 - Withdrawn due to low usage and to better use resources elsewhere. 5 buses freed up as a result. The increased X18 would ensure a consistent city service along the A8 corridor.

X27 - Increased to every 30 minutes. From The Centre, rerouted via Howden St John’s, carrying on via Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn (not serving Ash Grove), East Whitburn to Whitburn West End. The 2 peak extras would be removed as the frequency is changed consistently so they are no longer needed.

X28 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Combined X27/X28 increased daytime vehicle requirement from 13 to 18 but 2 vehicles gained back from the peak runs.

72 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Changed to serve Craisghill after Pumpherston before continuing on via The Centre, St John’s, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Wester Inch, Morrisons and terminating at Bathgate Station. I would expect the PVR to be 8 for this.

73 - From Bathgate, rerouted to Blackridge via Lower Bathville and Armadale. To save on resources, leave this as hourly as the new 74 gives a half hourly service in the busy Bathgate to Livingston section with the Blackridge section treated as new and unproven.

74 - New hourly service Whitburn to Livingston via Longridge, Whitburn Cross, East Whitburn, J4M8, Birniehill, Morrisons and continuing on from Bathgate to Livingston via 73 route.

75 - The current 74 renumbered. No change to route, but increased to half hourly. The 73/74 would continue to interwork with the 75. The combined PVR of the 73/74/75 should total 10.

No changes to subsidised 70, 71 or X40 but I wonder if the 43 could be increased to every 15 minutes? Would only need 2 extra buses during the day to do so and this would negate the need for extra journeys in the peak. In other words, no extra vehicle resource. One of those peak extras comes off an X18 which as above has been increased, thus the loss is covered there too. It would make sense in terms of trying to avoid peak dead runs.

If we factor that in the total number of extra buses on the road this would be an overall increase of 12 vehicles on the road. If it was more resource dependent, then I would suggest the savings are made from the X18 dropping the overall increase back to 8. 841-850 are rumoured to be returning, so an increase of 8 is definitely realistic. It leaves an extra 2 spare. For an increase of 12, I would suggest adding in 464 and 1030-1032 in addition. Again leaving 2 spare.

I’d future proof an idea for this 73/74 for increase to every 30 minutes and in turn look at making the 75 every 15 minutes between Livingston and Loganlea. This one for a couple of years time.

X19 could be extended and cut to hourly to free up buses for other areas.
Not fully backing out but also creating a better connection than competing with mcgills.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

X19 could be extended and cut to hourly to free up buses for other areas.
Not fully backing out but also creating a better connection than competing with mcgills.

Realistically though where in West Lothian could it be extended to without competing with McGill’s? I’d have concerns as well about its viability if only hourly too.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Realistically though where in West Lothian could it be extended to without competing with McGill’s? I’d have concerns as well about its viability if only hourly too.

I take back my comment about avoiding competition with Mcgills, my alterations to my comment are it could become a service for a newfound expansion and extend up to Bo'ness via the M9, however I suggest this only after West Lothian service improvements are made.
X19 Edinburgh - Winchburgh - M9 - Bo'ness  - Hourly

 

[Metal Mickey]

I take back my comment about avoiding competition with Mcgills, my alterations to my comment are it could become a service for a newfound expansion and extend up to Bo'ness via the M9, however I suggest this only after West Lothian service improvements are made.
X19 Edinburgh - Winchburgh - M9 - Bo'ness  - Hourly

I can’t imagine Bo’ness folk would be keen on having to go via Winchburgh to get to Edinburgh and they already have the CityLink 909 which is direct.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I can’t imagine Bo’ness folk would be keen on having to go via Winchburgh to get to Edinburgh and they already have the CityLink 909 which is direct.

Not to mention Bo’ness is outside of the Lothians - historically an unwritten boundary for Lothian.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Not to mention Bo’ness is outside of the Lothians - historically an unwritten boundary for Lothian.

What's the problem?

 

[Siemens Trains]

What's the problem?

Not an insurmountable problem but involves informing shareholders and dealing with yet another council (Falkirk in this case).
Never say never but for the sake of a single dud route it's probably not worth the effort.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Not an insurmountable problem but involves informing shareholders and dealing with yet another council (Falkirk in this case).
Never say never but for the sake of a single dud route it's probably not worth the effort.

Honestly it would make more sense just to extend it to Linlithgow via the M9 and Linlithgow Bridge, I'd they were to go that direction, nothing further, but the only way I could see them doing that is if McGills was to cut back on the X38 in terms of frequency or change the route drastically between Falkirk and Edinburgh.

For now, I think the X19 is fine as it is, it seems to be doing well enough, Kirkliston residents seem to finally realise they have a Lothian bus that they can use to the city.

 

[CSB0241]

LB 30 Clovenstone - QMU Changed to skip Newcraighall by going Via the A1 to Queen Margaret University. - Frequency of every 15 minutes using Deckers

I’d probably curtail it to Fort Kinnaird West off peak, with only some journeys extending to QMU.

East Coast Proposals
ECB 105 Haddington - Edinburgh New service via Macmerry, Wallyford, Musselburgh, Newcraighall, Prestonfield and the Bridges - Frequency of every 60 minutes using Single deckers - To replace service 30 in Newcraighall and provide a new Edinburgh service for Macmerry. - X6 can remain as a Peak time express.

OR

ECB 106 Haddington - Edinburgh
Extended all day to Edinburgh via Newcraighall.

I have my own idea of what I think would be better for Newcraighall personally (listed down below).

22 Cramond - Waterloo Place. Extended from Gyle - West Craigs - Cramond. The Granton Section is withdrawn and replaced by a revised service X4

I don’t actually hate this to be honest. My main issue is that I think the X4 doesn’t really need to be extended beyond Edinburgh city centre.

32 will be curtailed to Cammo terminus to improve its reliability.

Problem with this is that buses aren’t able to turn right out of the terminus at Cammo, & the turn in (if looping around the turning circle anticlockwise) is far too tight.

X4 would run between Granton Habour - Seton Sands via WGH, Meadowbank, Piershill, A199 then A1, Wallyford, Prestonpans, Cockenzie and Seton Sands, Every 30 minutes. Every 60 minutes on Sundays and evenings

Yeah, nah, I don’t see this working at all.

15 Waterloo Place - Penicuik extended to Penicuik via A702 and Mauricewood. Kings Rd section replaced by revised service X4. Every 30 minutes.

I’m honestly unsure about the best way Mauricewood could get well served for buses into Edinburgh. I think the best way possible is if Houstons were able to run the 101 at a consistent hourly frequency instead of the current mess of a timetable that it currently uses, but I won’t harp on about the 101 timetable unless it spontaneously gets bought out by Lothian (with which, I think the odds are slim to none).

X5 will terminate at George St Charlotte Sq instead of Federick St and run every 30 minutes with double deckers. Every 60 minutes on Sundays. Not operating on evenings.
105 North Berwick - Fort Kinnard via Musselburgh every 60 minutes coordinating with service 106. no evening service.
124 will become a Sundays and evenings service only. Terminus changed to Haymarket, every 60 minutes on evenings, on Sundays, every 60 minutes and interwork with service X5.

I think the current X5 & 124 work perfectly fine as is.

129 Haymarket – Musselburgh – Inveresk – Whitecraig. Every 60 minutes. This service would not operate on Sundays and evenings.
109 Haymarket – Musselburgh – Monktonhall -Old Craighall – Millerhill. Every 60 minutes, combined with service 129. This service would not operate on Sundays and evenings.

I personally think that Millerhill doesn’t need another bus into Edinburgh, & the Prentice 111 provides a good enough link between Millerhill & Musselburgh. If the people of Monktonhall want to get to Edinburgh they can just get the 111 to the Royal Infirmary then get a 33/49. Also think that the best way for Whitecraig to get a service into Edinburgh would be to run via Dalkeith instead.

72 - amended route
Kirkliston - Fauldhouse, West End via Winchburgh, Broxburn, Uphall, FASTLINK, St. John’s, Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Eliburn, Blackburn, East Whitburn, Whitburn. Hourly service.

73 - amended route
Livingston Centre - Armadale, Honeyman Court via Howden, St John’s, Carmondean, Deans South, Boghall, Wester Inch, Bathgate Town Centre, Falside, Bathgate. Half-hourly service.

75 - new route
Broxburn, East Mains - Whitburn, West End via Broxburn, Uphall, Uphall Station, Pumpherston, St. John’s, Howden, Livingston Centre, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Bathgate Town Centre, Birniehill, East Whitburn. Hourly service.

I feel this addresses a few issues:
- Improves reliability on the service 72 by omitting Uphall Station, Pumpherston and Houston Industrial Estate.
- Increases Broxburn to Livingston service to half hourly.
- Restores direct link between Armadale and Livingston.
- Restores service to Livingston Village.
- Restores direct service from Whitburn West End to Livingston.
- Increases Whitburn to Livingston service to half hourly.

I personally think that the 72 should just be shortened to running Kirkliston-Livingston via it’s current route. The Citylink 902 already does the Broxburn-Fastlink-Livingston corridor every hour anyway, & the X27 could always run it’s old route to Whitburn for a more frequent service.

X18 - Increased to every 20 minutes. PVR increase from 8 to 12.

X19 - Withdrawn due to low usage and to better use resources elsewhere. 5 buses freed up as a result. The increased X18 would ensure a consistent city service along the A8 corridor.

I feel like the X18 is doing fine as is at every 30min. The X19 has gained a noticeable amount of traction since it’s introduction in December, a lot of the time I’ve been on it it’s been fairly busy. Do I think it needs to be every 30min daily? No - at least not on Sundays though I think it could manage with an hourly Saturday service - but it isn’t exactly a complete waste of money.

X27 - Increased to every 30 minutes. From The Centre, rerouted via Howden St John’s, carrying on via Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn (not serving Ash Grove), East Whitburn to Whitburn West End. The 2 peak extras would be removed as the frequency is changed consistently so they are no longer needed.

X28 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Combined X27/X28 increased daytime vehicle requirement from 13 to 18 but 2 vehicles gained back from the peak runs.

Huge advocate for this.

72 - Increased to every 30 minutes. Changed to serve Craisghill after Pumpherston before continuing on via The Centre, St John’s, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Wester Inch, Morrisons and terminating at Bathgate Station. I would expect the PVR to be 8 for this.

Eh, I think the 72 is fine as is east of Livingston.

73 - From Bathgate, rerouted to Blackridge via Lower Bathville and Armadale. To save on resources, leave this as hourly as the new 74 gives a half hourly service in the busy Bathgate to Livingston section with the Blackridge section treated as new and unproven.

74 - New hourly service Whitburn to Livingston via Longridge, Whitburn Cross, East Whitburn, J4M8, Birniehill, Morrisons and continuing on from Bathgate to Livingston via 73 route.

75 - The current 74 renumbered. No change to route, but increased to half hourly. The 73/74 would continue to interwork with the 75. The combined PVR of the 73/74/75 should total 10.

5 buses per hour from Bathgate to Whitburn feels a bit overkill to be frank, & I think the renumbering of the 74 to the 75 is a bit pointless.


My own ideas;

For Lothian;

• Extend service 15 to Penicuik Town Centre via Auchendinny. This has been one that’s been discussed thoroughly here.
• Curtail service 30 to Fort Kinnaird West off-peak, with some peak buses extending to QMU via the A1. Frequency decreased to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min Sundays, now using double deckers.
• Curtail service 32 to East Craigs, with service 22 now running Cramond-Gyle-Waterloo Place as suggested by @zjsptgzxyspks. Service 47 could always run direct to Cammo from Davidson’s Mains though that could be bad for reliability.
• Reroute service 9 to Granton Harbour via Frederick Street & Princes Street then via 22 route. If running along Princes Street isn’t the best bet then the 9 could always just run through Stockbridge instead.
• Swap around services 8 & 23 north of Goldenacre. This means that

For EastCoastBuses;

• New service 105 from Edinburgh to Tranent via X4/5/7 route to The Jewel then via A1, then old 106 route to Wallyford, then X4 route to Tranent, building off of @Lothianbus703’s idea.
• Service X4 withdrawn, with service X6 reinstated via it’s old route (maybe extending up to the Western General), running every hour daily.
• Service 124 rerouted between Levenhall & Preston Tower via old 26 route.
• EastCoastBuses fare zone restructure. Personally I think the current one is pretty poor, & I think it should definitely be improved upon in some way or other.

For Lothian Country;

• 72 curtailed to Livingston South Station.
• X27/8 increased to every 30min each, with service X27 rerouted to Whitburn West End via 72 route (though serving St. Johns Hospital).
• 73 rerouted to Blackridge via Armadale (running every 30min).
• New 75 from Fauldhouse to Bathgate via old 72 route to Blackburn then 73 route to Bathgate Station. Every 60min Mon-Sat.

Peak Vehicle Requirement changes;
8: -1.
9: -1.
15: Unchanged.
22: Unchanged.
23: +2.
30: -6.
32: Unchanged.
47/47B: Unchanged.
72: -1.
73: +3.
75: +2.
105: +3.
124: Unchanged.
X4: -5.
X6: Unchanged(?).
X27/8: +5.
LB Overall; -19 SD, +13 DD.
ECB Overall; +3 SD, -5 DD.
LCB Overall; +9 DD OR +5 SD, +4 DD

What could be done is the 73 could be converted to single decker operations, since I think if it were every half hour they could still fit the same amount of passengers onto 5 MCV Evoras instead of say 2 Gemini 2s, since if the old McGills 25 could manage fine on Streetlites, the 73 could manage on Evoras. The 75 would also likely not need deckers, & the ECB 105 would also need deckers anyway.

Perhaps 66-70 could be moved to Musselburgh & 71-80 to Livingston, leaving 81-95 at Longstone. Some of the 7900Hs could then be shuffled around, maybe 15-20 could go to Central, 29/30 to Longstone, then 41-45 to Marine.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I feel like the X18 is doing fine as is at every 30min. The X19 has gained a noticeable amount of traction since it’s introduction in December, a lot of the time I’ve been on it it’s been fairly busy. Do I think it needs to be every 30min daily? No - at least not on Sundays though I think it could manage with an hourly Saturday service - but it isn’t exactly a complete waste of money.

Eh, I think the 72 is fine as is east of Livingston.

5 buses per hour from Bathgate to Whitburn feels a bit overkill to be frank, & I think the renumbering of the 74 to the 75 is a bit pointless.

The X18 does have potential to be increased, but only if it were to replace the X19. If you keep the X19, you more than likely can’t increase the X18. This was simply to offer more local connections while also bridging the gap along the A8 corridor and increasing Broxburn to Edinburgh which is one of the larger non rail competing corridors.

I’m confused by your comments about the 72 though. Most of what I have suggested changed is west of the Centre, not east. The Livingston to Bathgate section is completely redone/new. Craigshill would still need 4 buses per hour with the loss of the X27. Howden gains the X27 but loses the 72 while Craigshill would be other way round. It’s well accepted that the 72 is very slow at times, in Livingston it practically takes a full circle, almost serving St John’s twice. You could theoretically leave the X27 doing Craisghill on its way to Whitburn while the 72 still does Howden but both routes would be crazily slow in that case. It’s all about speeding up the routes while maintaining worthwhile connections. If you do this, it saves resources. Everyone wins.

There would be 4 buses per hour from Bathgate to Whitburn, not 5. 3 X18’s plus 1 74. As I explained in the post, not many people travel Fauldhouse to Whitburn, most do Fauldhouse to Bathgate. There’s a market for this. If you don’t increase the X18, it drops to 3 buses Bathgate to Whitburn.

As for the 74 renumbering, you would need to do this so that you had a 73/74 corridor Bathgate to Livingston, something that would be user friendly. The two routes combine to offer a half hourly route in that section. It wouldn’t work if it were say a 73 and 75. The only alternative would be a 73A and Lothian have a pretty obvious policy of not using letter suffix’s unless it’s for a very specific and minor reason, eg 22A and 47B which are part day minor diversions. Changing the A71 Fauldhouse to Livingston route to 75 simplifies the whole system.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Back again for more LCB Network Improvements. I'll just get stuck in, as usual peak time diversions/extension in italics.

Service 43 - No changes.

Service 70 - Reduced to single deckers.

Service 71 - No changes.

Service 72 - Services curtailed to Livingston Bus Terminus, frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 73 - Route change, between St. John's Hospital and Bathgate Morrison's, buses will serve Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn and Wester Inch. From Bathgate Morrison's buses will continue to Armadale, Honeyman via Bathgate, South Bridge Street and Armadale, Main Street. Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 74 - No Changes.

NEW Service 75 - Fauldhouse to Bathgate, Tesco via Longridge, Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate, Main Street. Every 60 mins, out with peak times ONLY.

Service X18 - Route change, at peak times service frequency is increased to every 15 mins, the route splits at Whitburn X serving Fauldhouse or Whitburn M8 every 30 mins. Out with peak times only Whitburn M8 is served on the usual route every 30 mins.

Service X19 - Extended to Linlithgow Bridge via M9, Springfield and Linlithgow, High Street.

Service X27 - Frequency increased to every 30 mins. Serves Dean South to cover the Service 73.

Service X28 - Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service X40 - Later Journeys Introduced on a trial basis.

Would love to hear your feedback, and have hopefully covered all the bases?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Back again for more LCB Network Improvements. I'll just get stuck in, as usual peak time diversions/extension in italics.

Service 43 - No changes.

Service 70 - Reduced to single deckers.

Service 71 - No changes.

Service 72 - Services curtailed to Livingston Bus Terminus, frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 73 - Route change, between St. John's Hospital and Bathgate Morrison's, buses will serve Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn and Wester Inch. From Bathgate Morrison's buses will continue to Armadale, Honeyman via Bathgate, South Bridge Street and Armadale, Main Street. Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 74 - No Changes.

NEW Service 75 - Fauldhouse to Bathgate, Tesco via Longridge, Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate, Main Street. Every 60 mins, out with peak times ONLY.

Service X18 - Route change, at peak times service frequency is increased to every 15 mins, the route splits at Whitburn X serving Fauldhouse or Whitburn M8 every 30 mins. Out with peak times only Whitburn M8 is served on the usual route every 30 mins.

Service X19 - Extended to Linlithgow Bridge via M9, Springfield and Linlithgow, High Street.

Service X27 - Extended to Whitburn M8 via St. John's Hospital, Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn, and East Whitburn. Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service X28 - Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service X40 - Later Journeys Introduced on a trial basis.

Would love to hear your feedback, and have hopefully covered all the bases?

It works well, few things I would highlight though.

I wouldn’t extend the X19. Leave that to McGill’s.

Similarly I’m not sure if the demand is there for diverting X18’s to Fauldhouse. The peak enhancements on the X18 absolutely work, but I would just keep them all to Whitburn.

I would probably run the 75 via East Whitburn, J4M8 and Birniehill just so most of that route regains a service again.

The only massive issue is you’ve lost the service along the fast Bathgate-Deans-Livingston corridor. Extend the 75 to the Centre and run it as half hourly?

 

[mb88]

Back again for more LCB Network Improvements. I'll just get stuck in, as usual peak time diversions/extension in italics.

Service 43 - No changes.

Service 70 - Reduced to single deckers.

Service 71 - No changes.

Service 72 - Services curtailed to Livingston Bus Terminus, frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 73 - Route change, between St. John's Hospital and Bathgate Morrison's, buses will serve Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn and Wester Inch. From Bathgate Morrison's buses will continue to Armadale, Honeyman via Bathgate, South Bridge Street and Armadale, Main Street. Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service 74 - No Changes.

NEW Service 75 - Fauldhouse to Bathgate, Tesco via Longridge, Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate, Main Street. Every 60 mins, out with peak times ONLY.

Service X18 - Route change, at peak times service frequency is increased to every 15 mins, the route splits at Whitburn X serving Fauldhouse or Whitburn M8 every 30 mins. Out with peak times only Whitburn M8 is served on the usual route every 30 mins.

Service X19 - Extended to Linlithgow Bridge via M9, Springfield and Linlithgow, High Street.

Service X27 - Extended to Whitburn M8 via St. John's Hospital, Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn, and East Whitburn. Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service X28 - Frequency increased to every 30 mins.

Service X40 - Later Journeys Introduced on a trial basis.

Would love to hear your feedback, and have hopefully covered all the bases?

All perfectly sensible. Only thing I would say is only having a half hourly X28 is nowhere near enough for Deans, Knightsridge, Ladywell and Craigshill. I honestly cant see the X27 returning to Whitburn. The current set-up of the X27/X28 is far too successful and it would be madness to change it. If anything, it could do with being a 15 minute frequency between the two routes.

 

[SoloSR334022]

It works well, few things I would highlight though.

I wouldn’t extend the X19. Leave that to McGill’s.

Similarly I’m not sure if the demand is there for diverting X18’s to Fauldhouse. The peak enhancements on the X18 absolutely work, but I would just keep them all to Whitburn.

I would probably run the 75 via East Whitburn, J4M8 and Birniehill just so most of that route regains a service again.

The only massive issue is you’ve lost the service along the fast Bathgate-Deans-Livingston corridor. Extend the 75 to the Centre and run it as half hourly?

With the 75, I thought more cost wise and timetable wise. A bus on the 75 could (during peak times) go on the to X18 as one of the extra buses (at peak times) then come off it back on to the 75 out with those times and the shorter distance would lower the PVR (peak vehicle requirement), over a service to Livingston and I feel the time difference between the current 73 between Bathgate and Livingston and the 73 suggested would be 10 mins or so, so easily expendable, and in regards to Deans North and South the X27 and X28 could easily be split between. For Livingston North the 72 could be extended there.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I would do it this way for LCB:

Service 72 - Cut to operating between Kirkliston and Livingston Bus Terminal only, Monday to Saturday daytime frequency increased to every 30 minutes with later evening journeys added, for Livingston to Whitburn & Fauldhouse see Service 75.

Service 73 - Same route between Livingston and Bathgate, will then extend to Blackridge via Lower Bathville & Armadale, Later evening journeys added to timetable along with an hourly Sunday service, revised timetable to connect with train services at Livingston North Station.

Service 74 - Monday to Friday daytime frequency increased to every 30 minutes with 1 later journey added to the Monday to Saturday timetable.

Service 75 - New Service between Fauldhouse and Livingston Bus Terminal replacing Service 72 but will serve St. John's Hospital.

Service 76 - New Service between Bathgate Railway Station and Livingston South Station via Wester Inch, Blackburn, Livingston Village, St. John's Hospital, Howden, Livingston Bus Terminal, Dedridge East & Murieston operating Hourly Monday to Saturday, timetable will coordinate to connect with train services at Livingston South Station.

In Murieston, the bus will follow this route: Murieston Road East, Murieston Road, Bellsquarry South Road, Alderstone Road and then Livingston South Station.

Services 77/78 - New joint service operating between St. John's Hospital and Calderwood/Kirknewton via Eilburn, Kirkton Campus, Livingston Bus Terminal, Dedridge East, Mid Calder (Spottsiswood Gardens) & East Calder, Service 77 will then follow Main Street to Calderwood and then return via Kirknewton and Service 78 will follow Langton Road to Kirknewton and then return via Calderwood. These services will combine to operate every hour Monday to Saturday daytime and would connect with train services at Kirknewton.

Service X18 - Monday to Saturday daytime frequency increased to every 20 minutes raising to every 15 minutes at Monday to Friday peak times.

Services X27/X28 - Frequency increased to Every 15 minutes during the day and every 20 minutes during the evening.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

With the 75, I thought more cost wise and timetable wise. A bus on the 75 could (during peak times) go on the to X18 as one of the extra buses (at peak times) then come off it back on to the 75 out with those times and the shorter distance would lower the PVR (peak vehicle requirement), over a service to Livingston and I feel the time difference between the current 73 between Bathgate and Livingston and the 73 suggested would be 10 mins or so, so easily expendable, and in regards to Deans North and South the X27 and X28 could easily be split between. For Livingston North the 72 could be extended there.

I see your logic, I’m just not sure it works though.

Having the 75 as a part day service could make it difficult to grow. I really think the X18 picking up extensions down to Fauldhouse would actually be counterintuitive. You’d risk damaging the 75 whilst also taking away traffic from parts of Whitburn from the X18 which would not see a peak enhancement. Running the 75 via Birniehill is just as fast (if not faster) but replicates previous connections such as the old 281 and First/McGill’s 26.

Deans wouldn’t have the X27 though as you’ve sent it to Whitburn, so you’d only be able to serve one of Deans North or South, which is an issue.

You could easily leave the 73 as it is per actual route, but run to Blackridge. Could the 72 then not pick up Livingston Village and onwards to Bathgate via Blackburn?

—————-NEW POST————-

I’ve been trying to come up with a realistic option though. This is not necessarily what I’d do, but rather how I think it will be close to how it ends up playing out:

43 - Increased to every 15 minutes.

70/71 - No Change.

72 - Curtailed/rerouted to Whitburn (West End), but increased to half hourly. Ash Grove would no longer be served.

73 - From Bathgate, service runs to Blackridge via Lower Bathville and Armadale. Increased to half hourly. In Livingston the route would be revised to run directly via Alderstone Road.

74 - Increased to half hourly. Continues to interwork with 73.

75 - New hourly service Livingston Centre to Bathgate South Bridge Street. Service runs via Howden South, St John’s Hospital, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn (and Ash Grove), Wester Inch, Morrisons and Whitburn Road.

76 - New hourly service Bathgate South Bridge Street to Fauldhouse via Menzies Road, Morrisons, Birniehill, J4M8, East Whitburn, Whitburn and Longridge. Services 75 and 76 would interwork.

X18 - Increased to every 20 minutes.

X19 - No change.

X27/X28 - Increased to a combined every 15 minutes, every 30 minutes individually.

Routes with increased peak vehicle requirement (PVR).

72 +5
73/74 +5
75/76 NEW 3
X18 +4
X27/X28 +3

As previously mentioned, the 43 and X27/X28 already have peak extras which would become all day runs as a result of this, hence the lack of impact on their PVR’s.

Amongst these changes, I would rank the express routes as having the lowest chances of actually happening. The X27/X28 is fairly solid as it is while the X18 would break the continuity of the A8 corridor within Edinburgh that the X18 and X19 have. I don’t see the latter as that important of a problem and I really do think Broxburn to Edinburgh could do with an extra bus per hour but 4 extra vehicles on the X18 may be difficult to justify. Back in the day when it was just First, this corridor had way more than two buses per hour though. I believe at least 6 possibly more? Clearly we’ll never get to that stage but it would be a step in the right direction and a guaranteed money maker for Lothian.

If we got something close to this, I think we’d have a fairly solid network and something that can build growth and finally get the start of a proper network back. We know Livingston is in line to pick up a substantial number of vehicles now, possibly regaining all of the 09 plates and Gemini’s that it had before. That’s a net gain of at least 17 vehicles! So if you take the express routes off you get to a modest depot PVR increase of 13.

 

[SoloSR334022]

75 - New hourly service Livingston Centre to Bathgate South Bridge Street. Service runs via Howden South, St John’s Hospital, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn (and Ash Grove), Wester Inch, Morrisons and Whitburn Road.

76 - New hourly service Bathgate South Bridge Street to Fauldhouse via Menzies Road, Morrisons, Birniehill, J4M8, East Whitburn, Whitburn and Longridge. Services 75 and 76 would interwork.

Why not just make it all 1 route? It's the same frequency and I don't believe it's in a different fare zone?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Why not just make it all 1 route? It's the same frequency and I don't believe it's in a different fare zone?

You could but it would double back on itself a bit too much. Unlike the old First routes you have Wester Inch these days. If Wester Inch was bypassed then sure it would work. Realistically I can’t see that happening however.

 

[paravostok]

With all the talk here of just adding Blackridge and Armadale on to the 73 is there any practical consideration of time? We'd be talking about nearing 2 hours end to end, vs a 15 minute drive

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

With all the talk here of just adding Blackridge and Armadale on to the 73 is there any practical consideration of time? We'd be talking about nearing 2 hours end to end, vs a 15 minute drive

2 hours? I’m not sure how you’ve got to that idea.

A rerouted 73 (running Blackridge to Livingston) would be about 1 hour 10 minutes long. Nowhere near 2 hours. The average drive by car is also about 25 minutes, not 15.

 

[paravostok]

2 hours? I’m not sure how you’ve got to that idea.

A rerouted 73 (running Blackridge to Livingston) would be about 1 hour 10 minutes long. Nowhere near 2 hours. The average drive by car is also about 25 minutes, not 15.

Sorry, I was thinking of Armadale for driving and under the assumption a rerouted 73 would still be serving Wester Inch or Blackburn, but even then if it doesn't what do you suggest people in Wester Inch or Blackburn do?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Sorry, I was thinking of Armadale for driving and under the assumption a rerouted 73 would still be serving Wester Inch or Blackburn, but even then if it doesn't what do you suggest people in Wester Inch or Blackburn do?

It can’t do both based on its current routing. If it does the direct route ie Blackridge-Armadale-Bathgate-Deans-St John’s-The Centre then you’re looking at about 1 hour 10 minutes. This seems the most likely route.

A new service probably picks up the Bathgate to Blackburn via Wester Inch route. Given there are suggestions Livingston Village will gain a service, it is probable that such service could do both ie Livingston-St John’s-Livingston Village-Seafield-Blackburn-Wester Inch-Bathgate.

Which of those two theoretical services’ extends from Bathgate to Armadale/Blackridge doesn’t really matter, but you’ll need two services running completely different routes from Livingston to Bathgate as a result - not forgetting the X27 and X28 as well. Traditionally though the fast bus via Deans has always provided the link from Blackridge/Armadale. Eg old First 25/800 (later McGill’s 25 then 21) and Lothian Country’s old 280.

 

[Busman757]

It can’t do both based on its current routing. If it does the direct route ie Blackridge-Armadale-Bathgate-Deans-St John’s-The Centre then you’re looking at about 1 hour 10 minutes. This seems the most likely route.

A new service probably picks up the Bathgate to Blackburn via Wester Inch route. Given there are suggestions Livingston Village will gain a service, it is probable that such service could do both ie Livingston-St John’s-Livingston Village-Seafield-Blackburn-Wester Inch-Bathgate.

Which of those two theoretical services’ extends from Bathgate to Armadale/Blackridge doesn’t really matter, but you’ll need two services running completely different routes from Livingston to Bathgate as a result - not forgetting the X27 and X28 as well. Traditionally though the fast bus via Deans has always provided the link from Blackridge/Armadale. Eg old First 25/800 (later McGill’s 25 then 21) and Lothian Country’s old 280.

I never understood why they ditched the 280 in the first place. It was a busy service when I drove it, even on a 20 min frequency.

 

[stevenedin]

You both make very good points here. Lothian have consistently added westbound journeys in the evening on the 36 so it will be interesting to see what happens with those. I would expect some dead runs to and from the Gyle as it is now. Sighthill I’m less sure of in terms of dead runs but late evening turnarounds either there or Hermiston Gait which again already exists. I can definitely see some of the early and late ‘garage runs’ that exist partly going with those runs curtailed to start/end at Queensferry Street. The Ocean Terminal start/ends of which there are a few probably kept if not added to.

I’m not saying this will happen but rather that it would be a way to solve the anti social behaviour issues on the 46. The links are all still doable just not directly. Only Danderhall/Sheriffhall would have journeys that possibly require more than 2 buses needed and with respect I can’t see the demand to or from these places for the purpose of the 46’s connections being that much of a problem.

The 48 I’m suggesting would return essentially to its pre covid state. Every 20 minutes Fort Kinnaird to Gorebridge with single decks. I do think there’s a reasonable trade off for Rosewell with the 31 there. Certainly I’d be wanting the 31 over a 46. Though I suspect you’d want both!

The 30 is simply a way of keeping Longstone with enough single deck rotas. Unless Lothian have something even more radical planned!

The Polton Mill 31 being replaced with say a 31A going from West Craigs to Rosewell could work or even it being a new number entirely like 39 or something like that.

 

[overthewater]

I never understood why they ditched the 280 in the first place. It was a busy service when I drove it, even on a 20 min frequency.

Short of drivers.

No one ever explained where the spare buses went?

 

[stevenedin]

Short of drivers.

No one ever explained where the spare buses went?

They moved to Lothian to operate the 12, 46 and 48. For a short time 178 was at Central on the 1 and I think one or two were at Longstone and were on the 30.