Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[TheEastCoaster]

Do you think that this could warrant the X27/8 being rerouted through Haymarket & Dalry rather than Fountainpark & Westfield?

I had thought about that to be fair since the X22 was withdrawn, but I feel the better compromise would be routing it via Gorgie and Henderson Terrace and hitting Fountain park also, but if the Ratho service is running via Calder Road then maybe not, but again points were made having it run via Broomhouse and Saughton.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

I do like the concept, however there are a couple problems I have noticed;
• Warriston Road is too narrow for any Lothian Buses as far as I’m aware, & thus, it’d probably have to be rerouted via Goldenacre & Inverleith. This would also mean that Logie Green Road & the B900 would also have to be omitted
• Right turns from Calton Road onto Leith Street are prohibited. This does mean that some reworking would have to be done (potentially even just making it operate via the Royal Mile instead)
• Calton Road also has a low bridge (14.3ft), so it’d either have to be only single deckers, only BZLs (14.1ft), or rerouted away from Calton road altogether

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2023 ==

So I’ve spent a good couple hours trying to make a new service (Service 32) between Ocean Terminal & Gilmerton (Every 30min Mon-Sat, Every 60min Sunday);
Ocean Terminal
North Junction Street
Leith Walk
OMNI
Calton Road
Royal Mile (To OT)
Bridges (to OT)
Scottish Parliament
Dumbiedykes
The Pleasance
St. Leonard’s
Dalkeith Road
Cameron Toll
The Inch
Moredun
Gilmerton Crossroads
Gilmerton Turning Circle

Underlined Text means that it’s only served Mon-Sat

This route brings a better connection from Leith to Cameron Toll - I like it! Good for Gilmerton to have another route in a growing area!

 

[JKP]

This route brings a better connection from Leith to CT - I like it! Good for Gilmerton to have another route in a growing area!

CT?

 

[EdinRH]

CT?

I guess it's an abbreviation for Cameron Toll.

 

[DunsBus]

I do like the concept, however there are a couple problems I have noticed;
• Warriston Road is too narrow for any Lothian Buses as far as I’m aware, & thus, it’d probably have to be rerouted via Goldenacre & Inverleith. This would also mean that Logie Green Road & the B900 would also have to be omitted

Correct. The dual carriageway section of Warriston Road past the crematorium is rather narrow and there's also a 6ft 6in width restriction due to a narrow bridge, at St Mark's Park. It's actually signed as being unsuitable for heavy goods vehicles, so running a bus service down there is most definitely a non-starter.

 

[frvic93]

Will there ever be a service serving Craigmillar and Niddrie that doesn't go along Niddrie Mains Road? It sounds like madness, but it might work, if it stops at the old Greendykes terminus (the one on Niddrie House Avenue) and doubles back on itself along Pringle Drive, Milligan Drive and the Wisp. I'm mainly thinking about it because of the atrocious and regular traffic jams along NMR. The jams make an utter mess of the timetables.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Will there ever be a service serving Craigmillar and Niddrie that doesn't go along Niddrie Mains Road? It sounds like madness, but it might work, if it stops at the old Greendykes terminus (the one on Niddrie House Avenue) and doubles back on itself along Pringle Drive, Milligan Drive and the Wisp. I'm mainly thinking about it because of the atrocious and regular traffic jams along NMR. The jams make an utter mess of the timetables.

Something could be altered with current routes, perhaps the 14 or 21...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Something could be altered with current routes, perhaps the 14 or 21...

Well I can't see the 14 or 21 changing because it gives Portobello a link to Niddrie and offers a direct link for Craigmillar and Greendykes! the 46/48 I doubt will change either as either both of them need to be rerouted or neither of them, best option I could see is the 400?

 

[stevenedin]

I was just thinking about the Lothian Country network, it may actually work better if the 74 extended from Livingston Centre and went the route of the X27 from Livingston Centre to Bathgate and the X27 continues as the new extension of the 72 to Fauldhouse.

The 72 could then either terminate at Livingston Centre or extend to Armadale via Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn & Bathgate.

The X28 would still provide the link to Edinburgh from Knightsridge and this would provide more links.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Well I can't see the 14 or 21 changing because it gives Portobello a link to Niddrie and offers a direct link for Craigmillar and Greendykes! the 46/48 I doubt will change either as either both of them need to be rerouted or neither of them, best option I could see is the 400?

Minor chance of a dual-destination system like Services 21, 26, 31 and 37?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I was just thinking about the Lothian Country network, it may actually work better if the 74 extended from Livingston Centre and went the route of the X27 from Livingston Centre to Bathgate and the X27 continues as the new extension of the 72 to Fauldhouse.

The 72 could then either terminate at Livingston Centre or extend to Armadale via Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn & Bathgate.

The X28 would still provide the link to Edinburgh from Knightsridge and this would provide more links.

Remember that it's temporary and will most likely be redone again in the near future when more drivers/vehicles are available.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I was just thinking about the Lothian Country network, it may actually work better if the 74 extended from Livingston Centre and went the route of the X27 from Livingston Centre to Bathgate and the X27 continues as the new extension of the 72 to Fauldhouse.

The 72 could then either terminate at Livingston Centre or extend to Armadale via Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn & Bathgate.

The X28 would still provide the link to Edinburgh from Knightsridge and this would provide more links.

It seems the biggest problem I notice with these posts, especially with the LCB ones is that most of the suggested routes break the Fare Zone rule, like Fauldhouse to Bathgate via Livingston would be, Zone D-C-B and then back to Zone C? which is why I also presume the services are split into two.

Bare in mind this new network is to fill in the gaps from McGills and depending on usage can only go upwards from here, hopefully it'll be sustained.

I think the next talk of the town will be the Edinburgh Tenders, and if LCB will claim the Queensferry to Gyle route via Kirkliston!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2023 ==

Minor chance of a dual-destination system like Services 21, 26, 31 and 37?

Maybe? but if they would go ahead with that for a minor section of the route I'm not sure, I figured it would be best doing it for a service that has nothing to lose by changing it, the 400 has no need to go down Niddrie and anyone can change onto a 21/46/48 from RIE or Greendykes easily now, especially with how frequent the services are, if you had the 400 running up Milligan Drive and The Wisp not only would it cover that area which Lothian have no service down that bit but also cover the section between Upper Greendykes and Royal Infirmary for the later hours of the evening after the 111 stops running!

 

[CSB0241]

It seems the biggest problem I notice with these posts, especially with the LCB ones is that most of the suggested routes break the Fare Zone rule, like Fauldhouse to Bathgate via Livingston would be, Zone D-C-B and then back to Zone C? which is why I also presume the services are split into two.

I was about to point this out. I also wasn’t exactly a fan of it being over 100 minutes long, & I am definitely more in favour of them being two services (at least from a Full Route Visual perspective)

I think the next talk of the town will be the Edinburgh Tenders, and if LCB will claim the Queensferry to Gyle route via Kirkliston!

Yeah, might be farewell to Eastern Scottish in its entirety soon. We only have the 20, 63, & 68, but it’s looking like they’ll be gone soon with Lothian alternatives (Balerno to Cramond & Queensferry to Chesser services, not sure what’ll happen with the Ratho Station of the 20 & the entire 68 route)

 

[scosutsut]

Having being reminded of the X7 capacity issues here we go:

Heading towards Dunbar. East Linton - leave the A199 as currently at the Service Station and join the B1407, taking the second right onto Orchardfield followed by a left turn back onto the A199. Perhaps addition of bus stops on A199 as close to Lauder Place as practical.

In Dunbar after leaving the town centre remain on the A1087 at the current right turn into Spott Road, instead taking the third subsequent right onto Queen's Drive. Continue straight on through Newhouse Place onto Newhouse Avenue, having a recessed bus stop constructed (by ELC) on the small grass area by the first stop on Newhouse Avenue to act as a layover point. To resume service continue to Spott Road, turning right, then left back onto the A1087 as per current route.

Switch ECB to full decker operation with B9TL/Gemini 3 cascades from main fleet displaced by increased BZL orders and deliveries, maintaining existing frequencies, displacing 1x B7R and 15x B8R for reuse elsewhere in the group (LCB perhaps for B8Rs if they can extend services, failing that main fleet to allow the sale of B7Rs)

Possible as the 106 doesn't need singles now, X5 never has and N107 can dupe these changes too.

Biggest issue I haven't resolved are driver rest facilities at terminus. Not sure on that one? Unless the terminus can shift back into town centre after the new loop? If that was the case you could even use the one way system in town to turn and omit my Spott Road diversion.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Having being reminded of the X7 capacity issues here we go:

Heading towards Dunbar. East Linton - leave the A199 as currently at the Service Station and join the B1407, taking the second right onto Orchardfield followed by a left turn back onto the A199. Perhaps addition of bus stops on A199 as close to Lauder Place as practical.

In Dunbar after leaving the town centre remain on the A1087 at the current right turn into Spott Road, instead taking the third subsequent right onto Queen's Drive. Continue straight on through Newhouse Place onto Newhouse Avenue, having a recessed bus stop constructed (by ELC) on the small grass area by the first stop on Newhouse Avenue to act as a layover point. To resume service continue to Spott Road, turning right, then left back onto the A1087 as per current route.

Switch ECB to full decker operation with B9TL/Gemini 3 cascades from main fleet displaced by increased BZL orders and deliveries, maintaining existing frequencies, displacing 1x B7R and 15x B8R for reuse elsewhere in the group (LCB perhaps for B8Rs if they can extend services, failing that main fleet to allow the sale of B7Rs)

Possible as the 106 doesn't need singles now, X5 never has and N107 can dupe these changes too.

Biggest issue I haven't resolved are driver rest facilities at terminus. Not sure on that one? Unless the terminus can shift back into town centre after the new loop? If that was the case you could even use the one way system in town to turn and omit my Spott Road diversion.

Could send the eclipse 3's over to LCB for the 73, 74 and 72 as well as possibly new routes to come?

 

[scosutsut]

Could send the eclipse 3's over to LCB for the 73, 74 and 72 as well as possibly new routes to come?

Yeah that's was my primary logic, with cascade and sale plan b. The group would do well to over order doubles for a while and thin out singles - they've ended up with more than they need.

 

[Avenger20]

Having being reminded of the X7 capacity issues here we go:

Heading towards Dunbar. East Linton - leave the A199 as currently at the Service Station and join the B1407, taking the second right onto Orchardfield followed by a left turn back onto the A199. Perhaps addition of bus stops on A199 as close to Lauder Place as practical.

In Dunbar after leaving the town centre remain on the A1087 at the current right turn into Spott Road, instead taking the third subsequent right onto Queen's Drive. Continue straight on through Newhouse Place onto Newhouse Avenue, having a recessed bus stop constructed (by ELC) on the small grass area by the first stop on Newhouse Avenue to act as a layover point. To resume service continue to Spott Road, turning right, then left back onto the A1087 as per current route.

Switch ECB to full decker operation with B9TL/Gemini 3 cascades from main fleet displaced by increased BZL orders and deliveries, maintaining existing frequencies, displacing 1x B7R and 15x B8R for reuse elsewhere in the group (LCB perhaps for B8Rs if they can extend services, failing that main fleet to allow the sale of B7Rs)

Possible as the 106 doesn't need singles now, X5 never has and N107 can dupe these changes too.

Biggest issue I haven't resolved are driver rest facilities at terminus. Not sure on that one? Unless the terminus can shift back into town centre after the new loop? If that was the case you could even use the one way system in town to turn and omit my Spott Road diversion.

In essence, a good idea. However, it cuts out large areas from the network - principally the 'main' area in East Linton and also a significant portion of the population in Dunbar, not to mention the local links to ASDA and the larger retail park soon to be built in the area. Unless there was some arrangement with Eve's for them to provide an enhanced Dunbar town service then I doubt any changes to the Dunbar end of the X7 are forthcoming.

 

[Acfb]

One thing I have noticed WRT East Linton Station is that there is to be a bus stop (or at least bus shelter) in the car park. I am a bit puzzled as I don't know if any buses are actually going to serve it. I can see the argument/point of the 120 in particular serving it but I'm not aware of any proposed changes to either Lothian or Eve's.

I'm not sure if there would be as much point in the X7 serving it other than for Haddington passengers who want to get the train southbound from East Linton.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

One thing I have noticed WRT East Linton Station is that there is to be a bus stop (or at least bus shelter) in the car park. I am a bit puzzled as I don't know if any buses are actually going to serve it. I can see the argument/point of the 120 in particular serving it but I'm not aware of any proposed changes to either Lothian or Eve's.

I'm not sure if there would be as much point in the X7 serving it other than for Haddington passengers who want to get the train southbound from East Linton.

The only benefit I could maybe see the X7 diverting to East Linton station is if the train was able to connect to Drem and offer a connection to North Berwick, granted you could already connect to North Berwick with the 120 anyway!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The only benefit I could maybe see the X7 diverting to East Linton station is if the train was able to connect to Drem and offer a connection to North Berwick, granted you could already connect to North Berwick with the 120 anyway!

If anything it will just damage the company/route profits.

 

[NorthClyde320]

Having being reminded of the X7 capacity issues here we go:

Heading towards Dunbar. East Linton - leave the A199 as currently at the Service Station and join the B1407, taking the second right onto Orchardfield followed by a left turn back onto the A199. Perhaps addition of bus stops on A199 as close to Lauder Place as practical.

In Dunbar after leaving the town centre remain on the A1087 at the current right turn into Spott Road, instead taking the third subsequent right onto Queen's Drive. Continue straight on through Newhouse Place onto Newhouse Avenue, having a recessed bus stop constructed (by ELC) on the small grass area by the first stop on Newhouse Avenue to act as a layover point. To resume service continue to Spott Road, turning right, then left back onto the A1087 as per current route.

Switch ECB to full decker operation with B9TL/Gemini 3 cascades from main fleet displaced by increased BZL orders and deliveries, maintaining existing frequencies, displacing 1x B7R and 15x B8R for reuse elsewhere in the group (LCB perhaps for B8Rs if they can extend services, failing that main fleet to allow the sale of B7Rs)

Possible as the 106 doesn't need singles now, X5 never has and N107 can dupe these changes too.

Biggest issue I haven't resolved are driver rest facilities at terminus. Not sure on that one? Unless the terminus can shift back into town centre after the new loop? If that was the case you could even use the one way system in town to turn and omit my Spott Road diversion.

They could order 8 or 10 new Evora's for the X7 and 106, I know it would only be an extra 8 or 9 seats but it would mean not having to change the route to accommodate deckers, and allow the B8R's to go into storage for possible future Lothian Country use?

In the main fleet they could convert the 30 to decker operation and put the Evora's on the 46 & 48, increasing capacity and allow the remaining B7R's and early 7900's to be withdrawn?

 

[SoloSR334022]

I think they could solve the Ratho problem in 1 or 2 routes a East to West route and a North - South route

X20 - Livingston South to Edinburgh City Centre via The Centre, Fastlink, Uphall, Broxburn, Newbridge, Ingliston Park & Ride, Ratho, Hermiston Gait and Haymarket

20 - East Craigs to Wester Hailes via 31 route to Mayburn Junc, Then X18 route to Ratho Station, then 20 route to Dalmahoy Rd., Until the A71 then to Wester Hailes Roundabout then to Westside Plaza

 

[LothianBusesPh]

20 - East Craigs to Wester Hailes via 31 route to Mayburn Junc, Then X18 route to Ratho Station, then 20 route to Dalmahoy Rd., Until the A71 then to Wester Hailes Roundabout then to Westside Plaza

This would probably not be run by Lothian as it would break the fare structure.

 

[stevenedin]

This would probably not be run by Lothian as it would break the fare structure.

The fare structure can always be changed.

 

[scosutsut]

In essence, a good idea. However, it cuts out large areas from the network - principally the 'main' area in East Linton and also a significant portion of the population in Dunbar, not to mention the local links to ASDA and the larger retail park soon to be built in the area. Unless there was some arrangement with Eve's for them to provide an enhanced Dunbar town service then I doubt any changes to the Dunbar end of the X7 are forthcoming.

Thanks, I accept it's not perfect but proposed as a "needs of the many versus the few" solution as standing for most, potentially all of the 45 minute journey to/from Haddington at the peaks is enough to put me off trying and I doubt I'm alone. I'd forgotten about the retail park though.

They could order 8 or 10 new Evora's for the X7 and 106, I know it would only be an extra 8 or 9 seats but it would mean not having to change the route to accommodate deckers, and allow the B8R's to go into storage for possible future Lothian Country use?

In the main fleet they could convert the 30 to decker operation and put the Evora's on the 46 & 48, increasing capacity and allow the remaining B7R's and early 7900's to be withdrawn?

Perhaps even simpler, cascade the B8 Evora's to ECB, displacing B8 Eclipse 3s back to main fleet to in turn release B7 Eclipse 2s for disposal.

Perhaps even simpler (and more efficient in terms of time and cost) just reseat the eclipse 3s to have decent capacity!

And combine any of these ideas with making the X7 pick up only between say Regent Road and Duddingston Park South to squeeze off local passengers that have plenty of suitably well served alternatives.

 

[SoloSR334022]

I don't know if anyone has ever thought about it but wouldn't make more sense for buses to Midlothian be LCB services instead LCity services. Obviously it would have to have a North - South Fare Zone instead of the current City Zone? But I guess it's just all random scenarios

 

[CN04NRJ]

I don't know if anyone has ever thought about it but wouldn't make more sense for buses to Midlothian be LCB services instead LCity services. Obviously it would have to have a North - South Fare Zone instead of the current City Zone? But I guess it's just all random scenarios

I don't see any possible reason for this or any possible way it would work. I don't even know where to begin....

 

[Baileygirl]

I don't know if anyone has ever thought about it but wouldn't make more sense for buses to Midlothian be LCB services instead LCity services. Obviously it would have to have a North - South Fare Zone instead of the current City Zone? But I guess it's just all random scenarios

or you could create a new division naming it Midlothian Buses

 

[stevenedin]

I don't know if anyone has ever thought about it but wouldn't make more sense for buses to Midlothian be LCB services instead LCity services. Obviously it would have to have a North - South Fare Zone instead of the current City Zone? But I guess it's just all random scenarios

In an ideal world, the Midlothian, East Lothian and West Lothian services would all be called Lothian Country but I don’t think that this will happen. I suggested it a while back in the speculative thread which is now closed.

 

[ChrisPJ]

You could probably call such a division , Eastern Scottish, if you wanted to.