Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[bobdoe]

So it's essentially the 47 route between West End and Surgeons Hall, couldn't see them doing it any other way which would overcomplicate the route like copying the 2 along Grassmarket or something!

An alternative is through Castle Terrace and Johnston Terrace but doesn't seem profitable at all.

 

[stevenedin]

I was thinking about the Lothian city network as a whole and it seems silly that most buses go the same way.

For example of you want to go from Sighthill to Ocean Terminal you can get the 34, 35 & 36 plus the 25 goes down to Leith.

The same could be said about the 10, 11 and 16 they all go from Tollcross to Newhaven.

The 7 and 11 both go from Gilmerton to Newhaven.

it would be nice if they altered them a bit to avoid duplication.

 

[InOban]

It’s going up Lothian Road, along Lauriston Place, along to Surgeon’s Hall, round to the Pleasance and then down Holyrood Road to Dumbiedykes.

Which is exactly what I was suggesting in post #115 (although in the opposite direction !).

 

[CSB0241]

No need to go via the Meadows. There's a Lidl and a Tesco Express close to Nicolson Square so the route could head directly to Tollcross and Lothian Road along Lauriston Place.

I take the 47 down the Mayfield/Newington/Lauriston section very frequently, & most of the time, it’s fairly quiet (of course, it’s busy when uni starts/ends & has it’s lunch breaks), so a less frequent service could work down there. I also think the meadows could do with another bus as the 9/12/24 get quite busy at times, so the 47 could go down there instead. That’d also trim off a good 5-10min of the already very long route.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I take the 47 down the Mayfield/Newington/Lauriston section very frequently, & most of the time, it’s fairly quiet (of course, it’s busy when uni starts/ends & has it’s lunch breaks), so a less frequent service could work down there. I also think the meadows could do with another bus as the 9/12/24 get quite busy at times, so the 47 could go down there instead. That’d also trim off a good 5-10min of the already very long route.

Would that mean the 47 leaving Cammo returning to the old 41 route to King's Buildings then copying the existing 47 further south, up Liberton Brae to Penicuik? The unpopular Tollcross and Lauriston Place link would be taken over by council route 13 (assuming it doesn't run through Grassmarket or Johnston Terrace) as part of the Dumbiedykes solution.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Would that mean the 47 leaving Cammo returning to the old 41 route to King's Buildings then copying the existing 47 further south, up Liberton Brae to Penicuik? The unpopular Tollcross and Lauriston Place link would be taken over by council route 13 (assuming it doesn't run through Grassmarket or Johnston Terrace) as part of the Dumbiedykes solution.

See post #116.

 

[CSB0241]

Would that mean the 47 leaving Cammo returning to the old 41 route to King's Buildings then copying the existing 47 further south, up Liberton Brae to Penicuik? The unpopular Tollcross and Lauriston Place link would be taken over by council route 13 (assuming it doesn't run through Grassmarket or Johnston Terrace) as part of the Dumbiedykes solution.

Nah, it’d probably be the same route it currently has to Earl Gray Street, then Brougham Street, Brougham Place, Melville Drive, & Hope Park Terrace.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2023 ==

I have an extremely odd suggestion that I doubt will gain any traction, but what if the 113 got rerouted to Bread Street to combine more effectively with the 124, the 44 got rerouted to the Western General, & either a new route (I’d like either 32, 75, or X32) could be introduced to do the West End - Balerno run, or a service like the X28 could be rerouted, since I feel that Balerno is a bit far out for Lothian (feels more like Lothian CityWest). If not, I have a second solution to this problem that I & only I have. Below are my several “solutions”;

1. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, 32/X32/75 introduced between Waterloo Place & Balerno
2. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, X28 rerouted via Balerno (X27/X28 combine to be every 15min)
3. 44 rerouted to Colinton, 32/X32/75 introduced between Bonaly & somewhere like Broxburn or Whitburn (I don’t feel like Livingston since I have made a new service known as the 77, see below).

I know that the 44 is relatively busy on that corridor, but it’s not too busy to have a lesser frequent service. It gets busier past Gillespie’s Crossroads, hence why I rerouted it to Colinton.


Now, as for other services in West Lothian, I have 2 new contenders for useful services;

77; Balerno - Kirknewton - Calderwood - East Calder - Mid Calder - Howden - Livingston Bus Station - Dedridge West - Dedridge East - Muireston • service runs hourly between 0530 & 2200 Mon-Sat, & every 2 hours between 0700 & 2000 on Sundays (Muireston - Calderwood)
79; Queensferry (opp. Echline Rigg) - Ferrymuir - Kirkliston - Newbridge - Broxburn - Pumpherston - Craigshill - Livingston Bus Station - Livingston Village - Boghall • hourly between 0700 & 2100 Mon-Fri, hourly between 0700 & 2000 Saturdays

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Nah, it’d probably be the same route it currently has to Earl Gray Street, then Brougham Street, Brougham Place, Melville Drive, & Hope Park Terrace.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2023 ==

I have an extremely odd suggestion that I doubt will gain any traction, but what if the 113 got rerouted to Bread Street to combine more effectively with the 124, the 44 got rerouted to the Western General, & either a new route (I’d like either 32, 75, or X32) could be introduced to do the West End - Balerno run, or a service like the X28 could be rerouted, since I feel that Balerno is a bit far out for Lothian (feels more like Lothian CityWest). If not, I have a second solution to this problem that I & only I have. Below are my several “solutions”;

1. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, 32/X32/75 introduced between Waterloo Place & Balerno
2. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, X28 rerouted via Balerno (X27/X28 combine to be every 15min)
3. 44 rerouted to Colinton, 32/X32/75 introduced between Bonaly & somewhere like Broxburn or Whitburn (I don’t feel like Livingston since I have made a new service known as the 77, see below).

I know that the 44 is relatively busy on that corridor, but it’s not too busy to have a lesser frequent service. It gets busier past Gillespie’s Crossroads, hence why I rerouted it to Colinton.


Now, as for other services in West Lothian, I have 2 new contenders for useful services;

77; Balerno - Kirknewton - Calderwood - East Calder - Mid Calder - Howden - Livingston Bus Station - Dedridge West - Dedridge East - Muireston • service runs hourly between 0530 & 2200 Mon-Sat, & every 2 hours between 0700 & 2000 on Sundays (Muireston - Calderwood)
79; Queensferry (opp. Echline Rigg) - Ferrymuir - Kirkliston - Newbridge - Broxburn - Pumpherston - Craigshill - Livingston Bus Station - Livingston Village - Boghall • hourly between 0700 & 2100 Mon-Fri, hourly between 0700 & 2000 Saturdays

Just thought I would respond to this to keep this forum active!

Personally I would keep the 44/113 as it is, as the 113 does provide Western General with a deeper link within East Lothian, the 44's only benefit would be for all the passengers in Willowbrae and Milton Road with all the stops the 113 no longer serves, plus the 44 does provide a good East to West link in town without the need for any swap overs, saying that however I do think Balerno could benefit with an additional service besides the 44 (I'm not counting the 63 since it's every 90 minutes and that is when it does show up!).

I think rerouting the X28 to Balerno would make the service unreliable and if it's going the way I think it's going then it would also miss out half of Kirknewton, also Balerno is far out but it's still bordering on the CityWest Zone boundary, that would no doubt be the Beechgrove Farm area.

A link from Colinton to Livingston could work as it would also give Balerno a link to both areas with easy access, Colinton has a post office which as it stands Balerno has none, (I know it's not much to justify a bus service but hey if it helps?!), plus it could help ease the loads on the 44 and offer a direct link to Livingston for those living in Balerno.

 

[Auld reekie]

Just thought I would respond to this to keep this forum active!

Personally I would keep the 44/113 as it is, as the 113 does provide Western General with a deeper link within East Lothian, the 44's only benefit would be for all the passengers in Willowbrae and Milton Road with all the stops the 113 no longer serves, plus the 44 does provide a good East to West link in town without the need for any swap overs, saying that however I do think Balerno could benefit with an additional service besides the 44 (I'm not counting the 63 since it's every 90 minutes and that is when it does show up!).

I think rerouting the X28 to Balerno would make the service unreliable and if it's going the way I think it's going then it would also miss out half of Kirknewton, also Balerno is far out but it's still bordering on the CityWest Zone boundary, that would no doubt be the Beechgrove Farm area.

A link from Colinton to Livingston could work as it would also give Balerno a link to both areas with easy access, Colinton has a post office which as it stands Balerno has none, (I know it's not much to justify a bus service but hey if it helps?!), plus it could help ease the loads on the 44 and offer a direct link to Livingston for those living in Balerno.

I like your train of thought, especially the last paragraph.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

1. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, 32/X32/75 introduced between Waterloo Place & Balerno
2. 44 rerouted to Western General, 113 rerouted to Fountainbridge, X28 rerouted via Balerno (X27/X28 combine to be every 15min)
3. 44 rerouted to Colinton, 32/X32/75 introduced between Bonaly & somewhere like Broxburn or Whitburn (I don’t feel like Livingston since I have made a new service known as the 77, see below).

I know that the 44 is relatively busy on that corridor, but it’s not too busy to have a lesser frequent service. It gets busier past Gillespie’s Crossroads, hence why I rerouted it to Colinton.


Now, as for other services in West Lothian, I have 2 new contenders for useful services;

77; Balerno - Kirknewton - Calderwood - East Calder - Mid Calder - Howden - Livingston Bus Station - Dedridge West - Dedridge East - Muireston • service runs hourly between 0530 & 2200 Mon-Sat, & every 2 hours between 0700 & 2000 on Sundays (Muireston - Calderwood)
79; Queensferry (opp. Echline Rigg) - Ferrymuir - Kirkliston - Newbridge - Broxburn - Pumpherston - Craigshill - Livingston Bus Station - Livingston Village - Boghall • hourly between 0700 & 2100 Mon-Fri, hourly between 0700 & 2000 Saturdays

We can all agree that Balerno could do with a sustainable connection to West Lothian.

 

[bobdoe]

We can all agree that Balerno could do with a sustainable connection to West Lothian.

Indeed. Horsburgh tried the route Livingston - Kirknewton - Balerno - Juniper Green before with their 424 and 24 services but they were withdrawn in 2006 and 2016 respectively. I still think Lothian Country can make this work commercially, if they extend the route to Straiton/Bonnyrigg as in my earlier proposals.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Indeed. Horsburgh tried the route Livingston - Kirknewton - Balerno - Juniper Green before with their 424 and 24 services but they were withdrawn in 2006 and 2016 respectively. I still think Lothian Country can make this work commercially, if they extend the route to Straiton/Bonnyrigg as in my earlier proposals.

How about this!

77 St Johns Hospital - Straiton P&R
St Johns Hospital - Howden - Livingston Centre - Dedridge East - Mid Calder - East Calder (Oakbank Road) - Kirknewton - B7031 - A70 - Balerno - Currie - Juniper Green - Colinton - Dreghorn - Swanston - Fairmilehead - City Bypass - Straiton Retail Park - Straiton P&R

Ideally this would cover the St Johns to Balerno link that was lost years ago, and also provide a direct link to Swanston/Dreghorn from Balerno (I know ideally the bus could turn to Dreghorn Bypass but this way you could have a direct link), and of course give Straiton a new bus service.

Buses could run to Straiton as late as 1800/1900 before running part route to Balerno

 

[stevenedin]

I was just thinking that maybe the Council didn’t pay for an Armadale to Livingston route as they might want to increase the amount of people shopping in Bathgate as it can be very empty at times. It may actually be a boost to Bathgate and then people who want to travel to Livingston can do so on the 73, X27 or X28.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Indeed. Horsburgh tried the route Livingston - Kirknewton - Balerno - Juniper Green before with their 424 and 24 services but they were withdrawn in 2006 and 2016 respectively. I still think Lothian Country can make this work commercially, if they extend the route to Straiton/Bonnyrigg as in my earlier proposals.

Perhaps some sort of new route running through the new builds at Gilmerton and terminating at the termini off the A772.

77 St Johns Hospital - Straiton P&R
St Johns Hospital - Howden - Livingston Centre - Dedridge East - Mid Calder - East Calder (Oakbank Road) - Kirknewton - B7031 - A70 - Balerno - Currie - Juniper Green - Colinton - Dreghorn - Swanston - Fairmilehead - City Bypass - Straiton Retail Park - Straiton P&R

Ideally this would cover the St Johns to Balerno link that was lost years ago, and also provide a direct link to Swanston/Dreghorn from Balerno (I know ideally the bus could turn to Dreghorn Bypass but this way you could have a direct link), and of course give Straiton a new bus service.

Buses could run to Straiton as late as 1800/1900 before running part route to Balerno

This route covers a lot of links being discussed recently and I think it could work out very well! As I said above, Balerno could really do with a sustainable and trustable connection to Livingston, West Lothian and the Hospital, and your route does just that. This is a great route in my opinion!

 

[bobdoe]

How about this!

77 St Johns Hospital - Straiton P&R
St Johns Hospital - Howden - Livingston Centre - Dedridge East - Mid Calder - East Calder (Oakbank Road) - Kirknewton - B7031 - A70 - Balerno - Currie - Juniper Green - Colinton - Dreghorn - Swanston - Fairmilehead - City Bypass - Straiton Retail Park - Straiton P&R

Ideally this would cover the St Johns to Balerno link that was lost years ago, and also provide a direct link to Swanston/Dreghorn from Balerno (I know ideally the bus could turn to Dreghorn Bypass but this way you could have a direct link), and of course give Straiton a new bus service.

Buses could run to Straiton as late as 1800/1900 before running part route to Balerno

I like this idea. My X41 proposal below skipped some of the towns/suburbs you've listed (Mid/East Calder, Swanston, Fairmilehead) as I wanted the service to complement the express X40. But now that Lothian no longer has the 41 as a service number, serving those communities in alternate hours could be possible, like how Horsburgh used to have 40/X40.

X41 Livingston - Bonnyrigg

Livingston Designer Outlet
A899
A71
Kirknewton B7031
A70
Balerno (Bridge Street roundabout U-turn)
Currie A70
Juniper Green A70
Colinton B701
Dreghorn Link
City Bypass A720
Straiton P&R
ASDA (Straiton Road)
Loanhead
Wadingburn Road
Lasswade Road
Bonnyrigg (one-way loop: Hillhead, High Street, Dobbie's Road, Polton Road)

 

[overthewater]

Indeed. Horsburgh tried the route Livingston - Kirknewton - Balerno - Juniper Green before with their 424 and 24 services but they were withdrawn in 2006 and 2016 respectively. I still think Lothian Country can make this work commercially, if they extend the route to Straiton/Bonnyrigg as in my earlier proposals.

Just to point out that both those routes were West Lothian tenders who pulled the plug in 2016. I'm sure the 24 wasn't run by Horsburgh by the end?

 

[gavin1985]

This isn't speculation. Nothing is final just yet but this is coming from a source high up at Edinburgh Coach Lines, therefore I know nothing about the 20/63/68.

Speaking of the 20 and 63. This seems awfully likely that they want it off McGills? But also a direct from Ratho to the city.

Evening News Ratho busses

New subsidised bus services to provide cut-off communities with vital links to the centre of Edinburgh are being proposed by council chiefs.

They include a brand new direct route from Ratho to the city centre and a new route from Dumbiedykes to Craigleith via the city centre. The move follows campaigns by residents in Ratho and Dumbiedykes after previous services were withdrawn.

Advertisement

Hide Ad

Transport and environment convener Scott Arthur said the longer-term hope was that once the services had been established with council support, they would attract more passengers and become viable routes which could be run commercially without a subsidy.

Locals in Ratho have long campaigned for a direct bus service to central Edinburgh and have complained about a reduced and unreliable service from First Bus and then McGill’s, which only takes them as far as Chesser. Last year, there were commuters from Ratho heading to Edinburgh who had to walk over a mile in the dark to catch a bus because their normal service did not turn up.

And residents in Dumbiedykes described their uphill struggle, without a bus serving the area, to walk up what they call “Oxygen Brae” to get shops and other services in the Pleasance and the Southside.

Now, the possible new routes will be discussed by the transport and environment committee on Thursday, November 16. Cllr Arthur said: “In some cases where routes are not viable, te council does run supported services. The public transport team in the council has been working quite closely with the industry and also residents to come up with supported services that work right for the city.

Advertisement

Hide Ad

“There is a route that connects Ratho to Hermiston Gait, where people can either connect to another bus service or connect to the tram, but we’re also going to look at a direct route which connects Ratho to the city centre.” However he said there was a potential clash with other operators running buses on part of the proposed route. “It doesn’t make sense to be competing with a viable route,” he said.


Another proposal was a route between Dumbiedkyes and Cragleith via the city centre. “Even though Dumbiedykes is quite close to the city centre, they’re not very well connected just now, so we think we can work with a provider there to deliver a much better service. The issue there is the roads are very narrow, so we’re looking at a provider who could run quite a small bus.”

And a third potential new route would connect Cramond to Balerno via the Gyle. Cllr Arthur said: “There is a need for services that don’t go via the city centre, but try to connect more peripheral areas directly. We recognise that in Cramond and Balerno there are people who work in the Gyle or Gyle Park, so providing a bus link for them should fulfil that need.

“With all of these, we are hopeful this is a transition to a commercially-operated service on these routes rather the council funding them indefinitely.”

 

[bobdoe]

Speaking of the 20 and 63. This seems awfully likely that they want it off McGills? But also a direct from Ratho to the city.

Evening News Ratho busses

I wonder if they are looking to reinstate a version of the X48?

Lothian Buses - Terminus - Ratho - Route X48

www.edinphoto.org.uk

 

[Bus9120UK]

I wonder if they are looking to reinstate a version of the X48?

Lothian Buses - Terminus - Ratho - Route X48

www.edinphoto.org.uk

I have posted details of the intended new council tendered network here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-council-tender-services.254308/#post-6493372

 

[bobdoe]

Just to point out that both those routes were West Lothian tenders who pulled the plug in 2016. I'm sure the 24 wasn't run by Horsburgh by the end?

You're right, it was eventually transferred to Blue Bus according to this thread.

Independent Operators in the Lothians

Prentice are now running a new service to Fort Kinnaird from Elphinstone http://www.prentice.info/110a.html Interesting move. I think that might do alright actually by going via the A1. It gives Prestonpans, as well as Tranent and Wallyford, a faster link via the A1 instead of having to go...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I have posted details of the intended new council tendered network here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-council-tender-services.254308/#post-6493372

They are all interesting options, as said in the other forum however I don't see Lothian taking the Hermiston P&R to Gyle route with the sole reason being that it will interfere with the Fare Zones.

LCB could take on the Queensferry to Gyle route and with perfect timing could co-ordinate with the 72 in Kirkliston for east connections to Queensferry and West Lothian!

Will Lothian bother with the 68? and I'm assuming they will be the ones doing the Balerno to Cramond service.

 

[roadierway77]

Mod note - post moved from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/edinburgh-the-lothians-council-tender-services.254308/ If you recognise that a post should be in a different thread, do not continue to post in the wrong one!

The only problem is that it takes away the link between Ratho and Ratho Station, which I'm sure is very vital.

This is obviously a topic for the speculative thread but one could potentially run a service from the city centre to the Gyle via Sighthill, Hermiston, Ratho and Ratho Station. Provides a link to the centre from Ratho, maintains connections from Ratho to Ratho Station and the Gyle, and aligns with the proposed Gyle-Ratho-Hermiston route. Hey, extend it to Dumbiedykes and you've ticked a number of boxes there.

 

[gavin1985]

Mod note - post moved from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/edinburgh-the-lothians-council-tender-services.254308/ If you recognise that a post should be in a different thread, do not continue to post in the wrong one!


This is obviously a topic for the speculative thread but one could potentially run a service from the city centre to the Gyle via Sighthill, Hermiston, Ratho and Ratho Station. Provides a link to the centre from Ratho, maintains connections from Ratho to Ratho Station and the Gyle, and aligns with the proposed Gyle-Ratho-Hermiston route. Hey, extend it to Dumbiedykes and you've ticked a number of boxes there.

It’s a good point, as the route doesn’t need to go along Corstophine or even Calder Road. In my opinion it could be worthwhile having it along Broomhouse and Saughton.
That way it‘s a service that might give others on those areas another option outside of the tram to get to the Gyle and beyond.

If it does get picked up by LC which I reckon it should due to the fare zones then they have covered all main roads heading into the centre.

 

[CSB0241]

If it does get picked up by LC which I reckon it should due to the fare zones then they have covered all main roads heading into the centre.

Do you think that this could warrant the X27/8 being rerouted through Haymarket & Dalry rather than Fountainpark & Westfield?

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

I wonder if they are looking to reinstate a version of the X48?

Lothian Buses - Terminus - Ratho - Route X48

www.edinphoto.org.uk

Could run from Ratho to the City following X48's route...

 

[mb88]

Do you think that this could warrant the X27/8 being rerouted through Haymarket & Dalry rather than Fountainpark & Westfield?

Lots of students use the X27/X28 from the accommodation at fountain park to Sighthill so I’d say it needs to still go along this section of the West Approach Road at least.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Lots of students use the X27/X28 from the accommodation at fountain park Road to Sighthill so I’d say it needs to still go along this section of the West Approach Road at least.

Shouldn't journeys like Fountain Park to Sighthill be made using the 34 and 35 routes instead? I'm not one for saying city passengers should be barred from the country buses but I know it irritates those travelling a longer distance to see their unique bus being used for short hops by those who could use the more frequent town services.
I think the question is whether Dalry Road or Western Approach Road for the X27/X28 better suits West Lothian customers.

 

[CSB0241]

Lots of students use the X27/X28 from the accommodation at fountain park Road to Sighthill so I’d say it needs to still go along this section of the West Approach Road at least.

Could be rerouted down Henderson Terrace & Gorgie Road so that Fountainpark is still served

 

[bobdoe]

New proposed route: Western Harbour - The Jewel

Western Harbour
Craighall Road
Warriston Road
Logie Green Road
B900
B901
Leith Street
Calton Road
Abbeyhill
Spring Gardens
Royal Park Terrace
A1
Willowbrae Avenue
Meadowfield Drive
Duddingston Road West
A1
Mountcastle Drive South
A6106
The Jewel (ASDA)

Currently Warriston and the area just below A1 Regent Road have no bus service (except the 35 briefly).

 

[CSB0241]

Western Harbour
Craighall Road
Warriston Road
Logie Green Road
B900
B901
Leith Street
Calton Road
Abbeyhill
Spring Gardens
Royal Park Terrace
A1
Willowbrae Avenue
Meadowfield Drive
Duddingston Road West
A1
Mountcastle Drive South
A6106
The Jewel (ASDA)

I do like the concept, however there are a couple problems I have noticed;
• Warriston Road is too narrow for any Lothian Buses as far as I’m aware, & thus, it’d probably have to be rerouted via Goldenacre & Inverleith. This would also mean that Logie Green Road & the B900 would also have to be omitted
• Right turns from Calton Road onto Leith Street are prohibited. This does mean that some reworking would have to be done (potentially even just making it operate via the Royal Mile instead)
• Calton Road also has a low bridge (14.3ft), so it’d either have to be only single deckers, only BZLs (14.1ft), or rerouted away from Calton road altogether

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2023 ==

So I’ve spent a good couple hours trying to make a new service (Service 32) between Ocean Terminal & Gilmerton (Every 30min Mon-Sat, Every 60min Sunday);
Ocean Terminal
North Junction Street
Leith Walk
OMNI
Calton Road
Royal Mile (To OT)
Bridges (to OT)
Scottish Parliament
Dumbiedykes
The Pleasance
St. Leonard’s
Dalkeith Road
Cameron Toll
The Inch
Moredun
Gilmerton Crossroads
Gilmerton Turning Circle

Underlined Text means that it’s only served Mon-Sat