Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Would it not make more sense to spend the money on having a higher level of service over a very short distance than paying for sperate bus route to cover a large area and duplicate parts of the 47?

I don’t think it would, no. Remember every journey you extend to the Gyle is extending many of the driver’s diagrams on the 47 and therefore is going to need a considerably higher amount of drivers. A new route will only need between 6 and 8 drivers across a whole day, some of which may be freed up if the 63 was cut back and Lothian won both routes.

The 47 as one of Lothians longest routes also suffers badly from traffic congestion and by extending most of them during the day with minimal use the route would become even more unreliable. A 7900 will be cheaper to operate compared to the XLB as well. So all those costs probably don’t work with it. A future East Craigs extension however may prove popular and wouldn’t suffer with the Maybury Road traffic problems as badly either.

 

[Lothianbus703]

A suggestion based on the new
Balerno - Gyle - Cramond Service (already confirmed)

My suggestion for routing:

Balerno - Currie - Wester Hailes - Westside Plaza - Sighthill - Hermiston Gait - Gyle - Barnton - Cramond

I have not said a number because the council are currently reviewing the subsidised network

This is assuming the 63 is maintained with its current routing

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This is assuming the 63 is maintained with its current routing

Why would it though? I’d say there’s little point in having two buses run down to Balerno. Plus having it serve Westside Plaza is further duplicating other links which contracts aren’t really supposed to do.

 

[danielhogg2005]

A suggestion based on the new
Balerno - Gyle - Cramond Service (already confirmed)

My suggestion for routing:

Balerno - Currie - Wester Hailes - Westside Plaza - Sighthill - Hermiston Gait - Gyle - Barnton - Cramond

I have not said a number because the council are currently reviewing the subsidised network

Where was this confirmed?

 

[Lothianbus703]

Where was this confirmed?

41 Bus and Cramond/Gyle Link Bus

The 41 bus is to be replaced by the 47, the 43 will be more frequent at peak times, and a new supported service is to be tendered for between Cramond and the Gyle.

www.edinburghlibdems.org

"Local Lib Dem councillor Ed Thornley said, "We are delighted to be able to say that after years of work, Council officers have said they will tender for a new supported service running between Cramond and the Gyle."

Then to Balerno:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid022aD8kfTYnqhU8fu1d8tK9jQL2TRwmkjnQyKGKqGEjsJ3yvH3yfbZduMKejVZDF81l&id=100058164606575&sfnsn=scwspmo

the new service wont just stop at the Gyle, it’ll carry on south to finish at Balerno.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2023 ==

Why would it though? I’d say there’s little point in having two buses run down to Balerno. Plus having it serve Westside Plaza is further duplicating other links which contracts aren’t really supposed to do.

Considering one of them runs every hour and a half I wouldnt exactly say they are pushing it.

As I live in South West Edinburgh I do use these services

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Considering one of them runs every hour and a half I wouldnt exactly say they are pushing it.

As I live in South West Edinburgh I do use these services

You’re missing my points though. The 63 is supposed to be every hour. It’s only the current circumstances regarding the driver shortage and McGill’s deliberately hopeless attempts at running it that means it’s every 90 minutes. The Gyle to Balerno stretch doesn’t need two buses. The new contract should hopefully specify an hourly service.

Your idea by it serving Wester Hailes means that parts of the 20 and 400 are then partly duplicated by this new route between Clovenstone and the Gyle. I think the council would be unlikely to agree to that.

By cutting back the 63 to Hermiston Gait that restores it to hourly with just 2 buses needed. The new Cramond to Balerno route can then also be hourly and also require 2 buses for it to work.

 

[Stan Drews]

You’re missing my points though. The 63 is supposed to be every hour. It’s only the current circumstances regarding the driver shortage and McGill’s deliberately hopeless attempts at running it that means it’s every 90 minutes. The Gyle to Balerno stretch doesn’t need two buses. The new contract should hopefully specify an hourly service.

I realise it doesn’t fit the agenda, but the current timetables on the 20, 63 & 68 are what McGill’s acquired from First. The revised contract was agreed between the council and First prior to take over.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I realise it doesn’t fit the agenda, but the current timetables on the 20, 63 & 68 are what McGill’s acquired from First. The revised contract was agreed between the council and First prior to take over.

I was aware of this already but thanks for confirming.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I realise it doesn’t fit the agenda, but the current timetables on the 20, 63 & 68 are what McGill’s acquired from First. The revised contract was agreed between the council and First prior to take over.

Honestly the 63 timetable is awful, last bus from Balerno is before 5pm (if it shows up), 90 minute frequency with no information at the bus stops.. outdated timetable from 2020 when First ran the service under a 40 minute frequency.

I sure hope it LCB take the service on they ammend it so that it works well, sure it will be cut back to either Hermiston Gait or Heriot Watt with something else taking the Balerno section, I think Hourly works well and if timed well could co-ordinate with the 72 in Kirkliston.

Folk are saying Lothian City should take the 20 and I don't understand why, they established the CityWest Zone for a reason so why tamper with that!

The 68 would definitely be Lothian City along with this new Balerno to Cramond service.

 

[stevenedin]

Honestly the 63 timetable is awful, last bus from Balerno is before 5pm (if it shows up), 90 minute frequency with no information at the bus stops.. outdated timetable from 2020 when First ran the service under a 40 minute frequency.

I sure hope it LCB take the service on they ammend it so that it works well, sure it will be cut back to either Hermiston Gait or Heriot Watt with something else taking the Balerno section, I think Hourly works well and if timed well could co-ordinate with the 72 in Kirkliston.

Folk are saying Lothian City should take the 20 and I don't understand why, they established the CityWest Zone for a reason so why tamper with that!

The 68 would definitely be Lothian City along with this new Balerno to Cramond service.

They haven’t put bus timetables in stops since they took over from First. They took the old First ones away from the city centre eventually. Another fail from McGill’s. I’ve never seen such a poor service from an operator.

 

[JKP]

They haven’t put bus timetables in stops since they took over from First. They took the old First ones away from the city centre eventually. Another fail from McGill’s. I’ve never seen such a poor service from an operator.

I think you mean a failure by City of Edinburgh Council who have contracted a bus service but then fail to ensure that it is publicised at bus stops. Is it not Lothian Buses that maintain the timetable cases on behalf of the Council or is that just the flags? Other operators in Edinburgh also do not get a look in. Try finding a Borders Buses or Houston’s timetable for example.

 

[stevenedin]

I think you mean a failure by City of Edinburgh Council who have contracted a bus service but then fail to ensure that it is publicised at bus stops. Is it not Lothian Buses that maintain the timetable cases on behalf of the Council or is that just the flags? Other operators in Edinburgh also do not get a look in. Try finding a Borders Buses or Houston’s timetable for example.

It’s the Council that are responsible for the bus stop flags and they contract Lothian Buses to do that.

The timetables are the operators responsibility but yeah you could say that the council are failing to make sure that the tendered services have a timetable.

I’ve seen Borders Buses timetables but not Houston’s. I think that it would be better if there was a combined timetable done by the Council showing all services. I guess we have the new bus trackers which are better than before.

Probably in future it will be a case of scan a barcode to see the timetable for that stop.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Probably in future it will be a case of scan a barcode to see the timetable for that stop.

That would be ideal for the younger generation, but anyone over 70 with little knowledge or access to smartphones and the internet would be stuck. I think at the very least they should roll out trackers at every stop they can.


Just had a thought, does anyone know why the X40 cuts along Gilmerton Station Road to enter the bypass when the bus can easily enter the Bypass through Gilmerton Junction? I would get serving the area but there are no stops on Gilmerton Station Road. I'm sure there is a reason for it but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Just had a thought, does anyone know why the X40 cuts along Gilmerton Station Road to enter the bypass when the bus can easily enter the Bypass through Gilmerton Junction, I would get serving the area but there's no stops on Gilmerton Station Road! I'm sure there is a reason for it but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it’s largely so that it doesn’t get caught up in the Sheriffhall roundabout traffic. Until a few years ago Gilmerton Station Road was entirely industrial so there was no need to have any stops. More recently housing has appeared so there may be more of a reason for stops to be there now.

 

[stevenedin]

That would be ideal for the younger generation, but anyone over 70 with little knowledge or access to smartphones and the internet would be stuck, I think at the very least they should roll out trackers at every stop they can.


Just had a thought, does anyone know why the X40 cuts along Gilmerton Station Road to enter the bypass when the bus can easily enter the Bypass through Gilmerton Junction, I would get serving the area but there's no stops on Gilmerton Station Road! I'm sure there is a reason for it but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I agree it would be better having a timetable but was just pointing out how things seem to be going recently.

I have no idea why it goes along that way. With the new housing developments it makes sense to have bus stops there but with Horsburgh it depended on the driver whether or not they went straight down after Gilmerton terminus.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think it’s largely so that it doesn’t get caught up in the Sheriffhall roundabout traffic. Until a few years ago Gilmerton Station Road was entirely industrial so there was no need to have any stops. More recently housing has appeared so there may be more of a reason for stops to be there now.

That makes more sense! Thanks for clearing it up!

I agree it would be better having a timetable but was just pointing out how things seem to be going recently.

I have no idea why it goes along that way. With the new housing developments it makes sense to have bus stops there but with Horsburgh it depended on the driver whether or not they went straight down after Gilmerton terminus.

I'm sure the X40 no longer serves Gilmerton Terminus either, I think at least with Horsburgh it did a U-turn but with Lothian Country it's just direct.

I hope they will add bus stops on Gilmerton Station Road, I think more or less so that there is a connection to Lasswade Road! Also noticed they added a temporary stop to Clovenstone Roundabout (Westbound)

 

[bobdoe]

That makes more sense! Thanks for clearing it up!



I'm sure the X40 no longer serves Gilmerton Terminus either, I think at least with Horsburgh it did a U-turn but with Lothian Country it's just direct.

I hope they will add bus stops on Gilmerton Station Road, I think more or less so that there is a connection to Lasswade Road! Also noticed they added a temporary stop to Clovenstone Roundabout (Westbound)

The X40 under Horsburgh used to do a U-turn, but drivers mostly didn't bother to in the last few months of its lifespan. Hardly anyone used the stop anyway.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Probably in future it will be a case of scan a barcode to see the timetable for that stop.

That would be ideal for the younger generation, but anyone over 70 with little knowledge or access to smartphones and the internet would be stuck. I think at the very least they should roll out trackers at every stop they can.

I believe this barcode thing may be possible already, or perhaps texting the bus stop number to Traveline etc. However I doubt anyone of any age would bother. For me on arrival at the stop I tend to use the council's real time display first to check for the next bus, then Lothian's printed timetable at the stop (although not sure I'd trust a non-Lothian timetable). I might then use Lothian's own app on a mobile phone. The app normally tells you the official timetable if tracker data isn't available. I can't say scanning a barcode or texting a stop number would really appeal, and I'm well short of 70 years old.

 

[Stan Drews]

Honestly the 63 timetable is awful, last bus from Balerno is before 5pm (if it shows up), 90 minute frequency with no information at the bus stops.. outdated timetable from 2020 when First ran the service under a 40 minute frequency.

I sure hope it LCB take the service on they ammend it so that it works well, sure it will be cut back to either Hermiston Gait or Heriot Watt with something else taking the Balerno section, I think Hourly works well and if timed well could co-ordinate with the 72 in Kirkliston.

It is the council who specify the route and timetable for tendered services, with operators then submitting their price based upon that spec. Therefore, if the council decide to improve the timetables, it wouldn’t matter which operator won the contract, it would benefit the communities served.

 

[Siemens Trains]

It is the council who specify the route and timetable for tendered services, with operators then submitting their price based upon that spec. Therefore, if the council decide to improve the timetables, it wouldn’t matter which operator won the contract, it would benefit the communities served.

True, but I don't believe a 40 minute interval for the 63 would have been in the council's spec when tendering. First may have offered it though. Councils typically just look for an hourly service on these types of routes in my experience. A few years ago Lothian Buses increased their 63 frequency when they found an extra vehicle was necessary for keeping to time on the hourly requirement.
Also, the present 90 minute interval (if passengers are lucky enough to find two buses operating in a row) certainly wasn't the council's idea.

 

[bobdoe]

An off-road triple-decker bus from Harburn to Fala Village every 5 minutes would meet the demands of many customers with great views of the Pentlands.

 

[Stan Drews]

True, but I don't believe a 40 minute interval for the 63 would have been in the council's spec when tendering. First may have offered it though. Councils typically just look for an hourly service on these types of routes in my experience. A few years ago Lothian Buses increased their 63 frequency when they found an extra vehicle was necessary for keeping to time on the hourly requirement.
Also, the present 90 minute interval (if passengers are lucky enough to find two buses operating in a row) certainly wasn't the council's idea.

I’m not sure you understand how Council tendered services work. Routes and timetables can’t just be changed by the operators without the agreement of the council. Operators can usually offer/submit alternative options, but they have to be accepted by the council. I understand there were no bidders for the services when they were due for renewal in August 2022, and the current spec is what was agreed between First and the council.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Since a lot people are talking about the 20 and 63, I want to raise something. What do you guys think will happen with the 68, or will anything happen to the 68? Would it be put out to tender with Lothian or another company recieving it? Would it be split up? Tell me about it below!

 

[Stan Drews]

Since a lot people are talking about the 20 and 63, I want to raise something. What do you guys think will happen with the 68, or will anything happen to the 68? Would it be brought to Lothian? Would it be split up? Tell me about it below!

It won’t be “brought to Lothian”. It will be put out to tender, either as per current specification or perhaps modified in some way, and likely awarded to the operator that provides the best value for the council.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

It won’t be “brought to Lothian”. It will be put out to tender, either as per current specification or perhaps modified in some way, and likely awarded to the operator that provides the best value for the council.

I see that now. I’ve edited my last post to make it make more sense.

 

[jb66]

Does lothian have a bus small enough to run the 68?

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Does lothian have a bus small enough to run the 68?

If Lothian had the 68 in city operation, then possibly. They could use Evoras or Volvo 7900s or they might need a new bus order, perhaps Solo SRs or Mellor Strata’s, if they receive the 68.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If Lothian had the 68 in city operation, then possibly. They could use Evoras

I’d love to see someone try an Evora on the 68. That’s not going to work.

 

[mb88]

If Lothian had the 68 in city operation, then possibly. They could use Evoras or Volvo 7900s or they might need a new bus order, perhaps Solo SRs or Mellor Strata’s, if they receive the 68.

I seem to recall even the longer streetlites getting into some difficulty on the 68 when First began operating it.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

I’d love to see someone try an Evora on the 68. That’s not going to work.

Guess if Lothian were to take the
68, Lothian would have to get a new order. I’m thinking Mellor Strata’s and to an extent even Minivans would work decent on the service.