Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Darklord8899]

Very surprised about the 11. Does it not struggle at times to get along Pilrig Street?

Yes, there has been issues with parked vehicles preventing the buses getting up/down Pilrig Street.....not sure if this is only related to when there is events in Pilrig Park or not...

 

[ericlesley]

Given Lothian's "board-at-flag" policy, it seems more than likely that a queue of buses could be lined up behind before an Enviro400XLB is ready to go.

The "board at flag" policy is the best thing about Lothian Buses>

 

[overthewater]

The "board at flag" policy is the best thing about Lothian Buses>

Its second Crapist thing about Lothian its slows down boarding time, and you can see it with the stagecoach who are speeding up boarding time.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Its second Crapist thing about Lothian its slows down boarding time, and you can see it with the stagecoach who are speeding up boarding time.

To quote what a driver i know said the other day...

"A Bus Stop is a meeting point for passengers, it's not the exact location the bus should stop, but the rough location. So long as the bus is stopped near it in a save location that's all that matters".

Quite often it's impossible to stop at the flag. There's a bus stop here where they've deliberately moved the flag about 30 feet away from the old location as buses kept coming in to contact with the bus shelter (Which funnily enough has not moved). That's not to forget times when there may be parked cars in the way!

 

[oldman]

My main concern with these vehicles has always been dwell time.

There might be up to 60 people all descending down a single staircase, mingling with potentially another 60 on the lower deck.

I agree the stair will be a problem, but as long as they don't do something really stupid like cut the basic frequency, it will only matter at peak times. As someone (I forget who ) pointed out upthread there are a number of extra 11s which might be saved.

There are a lot places - Morningside, Comiston, Oxgangs in the evenings - which are like a slalom with drivers having to give way to people in the opposite direction so it will be interesting to see how they cope.

 

[Darklord8899]

Its second Crapist thing about Lothian its slows down boarding time, and you can see it with the stagecoach who are speeding up boarding time.

There is nothing that boils my piss more than when I've been standing in the queue at a stop and some c**t who hasn't been standing in the queue and arrived 10 mins after me, breezes onto the bus I want that's behind the bus currently boarding.

 

[overthewater]

One of those 100 seaters is going down the a1 towards muss/wallyford/Haddington.

 

[OmniCity999]

One of those 100 seaters is going down the a1 towards muss/wallyford/Haddington.

A handful of these have been going down south lately. I know one is with Stagecoach in Cambridge, dont know if anyone else has them, though.

 

[Auld reekie]

There is nothing that boils my piss more than when I've been standing in the queue at a stop and some c**t who hasn't been standing in the queue and arrived 10 mins after me, breezes onto the bus I want that's behind the bus currently boarding.

This.

 

[overthewater]

Go to Ryan bar bus stop and watch the people que the wrong way and when you que the first way and get on the bus first and everyone complains you point to THE HUGE SIGNS and everyone has to shut up..

 

[ejstubbs]

On a related subject, has anyone else noticed increasingly lackadaisical 'queuing' behaviour at Edinburgh bus stops recently? An oft-seen example is at stops served by multiple services, with people engrossed in their smartphones or perched on the rail in the shelter not moving up as people ahead of them board other buses. I usually can't think of anything more polite to say than something along the lines of: "Excuse me, are you queuing or just occupying space?" So I usually don't bother and move past them. To date I haven't had any complaints about queue jumping from the queue "sitters", but it all adds to the stress of waiting for a bus amongst a bunch of strangers who commonly exhibit somewhat variable degrees of orderliness at the best of times!

 

[Jordan Adam]

On a related subject, has anyone else noticed increasingly lackadaisical 'queuing' behaviour at Edinburgh bus stops recently? An oft-seen example is at stops served by multiple services, with people engrossed in their smartphones or perched on the rail in the shelter not moving up as people ahead of them board other buses. I usually can't think of anything more polite to say than something along the lines of: "Excuse me, are you queuing or just occupying space?" So I usually don't bother and move past them. To date I haven't had any complaints about queue jumping from the queue "sitters", but it all adds to the stress of waiting for a bus amongst a bunch of strangers who commonly exhibit somewhat variable degrees of orderliness at the best of times!

Edinburgh's attitude to queuing at bus stops boils my blood, as does their stupid load at flag only policy, up here people are typically good at queuing properly and moving up once there's space. You also get people who don't stand in the queue but 9 times out of 10 it's okay as they go to the back of the queue once their bus comes. Drivers here are also not overcautious about only opening the doors right at the flag and will open them so long as the bus is near the correct stop and in a safe location. It saves so much time, reduces congestion and means the passengers can get off the bus to where they want to go or on the bus out the cold much faster. The lack of common sense that Lothian have when it comes to this issue intrigues me.

Rant over

 

[alchemy]

It seems to me that when I go back to my home city that the biggest problem in Princes St and Ryans Bar are the First and Stagecoach buses taking forever to give out change
Personally I would like to see First not stopping to pick up at Waverley Steps and not allowing Stagecoach to pick up in Princes St. They could then introduce separate stop further down Queensferry St for their sole use

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It seems to me that when I go back to my home city that the biggest problem in Princes St and Ryans Bar are the First and Stagecoach buses taking forever to give out change
Personally I would like to see First not stopping to pick up at Waverley Steps and not allowing Stagecoach to pick up in Princes St. They could then introduce separate stop further down Queensferry St for their sole use

That would be driving away custom given that Princes Street is much handier for passengers rather than trekking up to the bus station or all the way along to Queensferry Street.

With regard to the change issue - I'm not sure what Stagecoach services you've been watching but from when I've been coming back from Edinburgh at peak times most people, yes they are mostly commuters nonetheless, have smartcards with weekly or monthly tickets loaded onto them which take seconds to scan.

 

[Siemens Trains]

To quote what a driver i know said the other day...

"A Bus Stop is a meeting point for passengers, it's not the exact location the bus should stop, but the rough location. So long as the bus is stopped near it in a save location that's all that matters".

Quite often it's impossible to stop at the flag. There's a bus stop here where they've deliberately moved the flag about 30 feet away from the old location as buses kept coming in to contact with the bus shelter (Which funnily enough has not moved). That's not to forget times when there may be parked cars in the way!

I hope that driver isn't employed in Edinburgh as they're unlikely to keep their job for long with that opinion. Here a bus stop is where the bus stops in order to pick up passengers who have an expectation that the bus will stop at it. The council should ensure that bus stops are only put in safe locations, and drivers shouldn't need to make the decision themselves on where is safe. Departing from this concept introduces a lot of uncertainty about whether both driver and passenger agree the location is safe, whether particular people are wanting to board or are just passers-by, if all potential passengers can see the number/destination from their location, whether they have mobility issues and unable to walk up the street to board and so on. All far too complicated really.

It seems to me that when I go back to my home city that the biggest problem in Princes St and Ryans Bar are the First and Stagecoach buses taking forever to give out change
Personally I would like to see First not stopping to pick up at Waverley Steps and not allowing Stagecoach to pick up in Princes St. They could then introduce separate stop further down Queensferry St for their sole use

First haven't offered change for quite some time now. However this still results in long stop dwell times because First don't tell passengers the fares in advance, so they need to negotiate a price with the driver then find the exact change. Contactless collection might offer potential to speed things up but early indications aren't especially encouraging.

 

[overthewater]

First haven't offered change for quite some time now. However this still results in long stop dwell times because First don't tell passengers the fares in advance, so they need to negotiate a price with the driver then find the exact change. Contactless collection might offer potential to speed things up but early indications aren't especially encouraging.

What are you on about? Service 38 every 15min still gives change.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I hope that driver isn't employed in Edinburgh as they're unlikely to keep their job for long with that opinion. Here a bus stop is where the bus stops in order to pick up passengers who have an expectation that the bus will stop at it. The council should ensure that bus stops are only put in safe locations, and drivers shouldn't need to make the decision themselves on where is safe. Departing from this concept introduces a lot of uncertainty about whether both driver and passenger agree the location is safe, whether particular people are wanting to board or are just passers-by, if all potential passengers can see the number/destination from their location, whether they have mobility issues and unable to walk up the street to board and so on. All far too complicated really.

What they said is basic common sense tbh... The land of Lothian would never understand.

 

[Siemens Trains]

What are you on about? Service 38 every 15min still gives change.

Ah yes, forgot about the 38. However services running from Livingston around Edinburgh don't usually give change and, apart from the nightbus, fare information can be difficult to find.

 

[Hophead]

Isn't the point of having a centre door so that mingling between entering and alighting passengers is reduced?
Also, the "board-at-flag" policy mainly applies to passengers who are boarding rather than leaving - you should be able to leave while the bus queues behind others. To me, allowing parallel boarding when using this type of vehicle seems to make even less sense. The bus could be obstructing an otherwise empty stop for the 4-5 minutes that you suggest boarding would take.

Unfortunately, the staircase is positioned forward, behind the driver, so there's very little opportunity to separate boarding and alighting passengers.

I'm aware that passengers are allowed to alight before the bus pulls onto the stop but, if it gets a free run, that's not going to happen.

The Enviro 400s are of a similar dimensions to the double-deckers which operate in Berlin - these have not just 3 doors, but a pair of stairs as well. The same layout is true of the New Routemasters in London (which have a decidedly lower capacity it's true). At 129 passengers, the new Edinburgh buses have a capacity not far off the Citaros now banished from London, which also had three doors and, as we know only too well, allowed boarding at all doors.

All of which is to say that these operators have specified vehicles that can get in and out of the stop in the minimum possible time. Perhaps Lothian have got this on their radar and don't foresee a problem, but I'm interested to see how this does all pan out in the hurly-burly of daily operation.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

There is nothing that boils my piss more than when I've been standing in the queue at a stop and some c**t who hasn't been standing in the queue and arrived 10 mins after me, breezes onto the bus I want that's behind the bus currently boarding.

I fully agree! Unless they are blind, heavily pregnant, in a wheelchair or very elderly, I hate it.

I also hate when no one gets up and gives a seat to those who are blind or disabled.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

A handful of these have been going down south lately. I know one is with Stagecoach in Cambridge, dont know if anyone else has them, though.

Do you know if they are in service with Stagecoach? I assume it's a trial to see if they want the B8L too.

 

[ScotRail158725]

1065 re-registered to SJ19 OVY

 

[overthewater]

Do you know if they are in service with Stagecoach? I assume it's a trial to see if they want the B8L too.

There are not being used in service, rather it's been said, been throw out for testing on the busways at the dead of night

 

[Gingerbus1991]

What are you on about? Service 38 every 15min still gives change.

Midland Bluebird aka Falkirk and Stirling ops still offer change, the 38 runs from larbert as I was last aware.
First Scotland East aka Livingston, edinburgh etc dont.

 

[overthewater]

Hence why I only mentioned the Larbert service.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I sense that edinburghs public feel entitled to have the bus float up to them with the door at there feet, they really do not like working, edinburgh public visiting glasgow however would get a culture shock, pretty much in glasgow you put your hand out or step forward or you don’t get a bus.

The edinburgh lot expect you to be a mind reader!

Yet again the “stop at flag” nonsense is lothians idea of excellent customer service, questionable to be fair.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Hence why I only mentioned the Larbert service.

Apologies, jumped the gun without reading properly

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aberdeen's "halting the bus" attitudes depend on operator.

With First you simply just stand at the front of the shelter and the bus will stop. You stay back in the shelter or on the inside of the pavement if you don't want the bus.

With Stagecoach though you do most of the time have to signal otherwise they fly past, they've got a bit of a reputation of driving past stops if another bus is already there too!

As a rule of thumb whenever i'm somewhere unfamiliar i signal the bus to stop just to be on the safe side.

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Midland Bluebird aka Falkirk and Stirling ops still offer change, the 38 runs from larbert as I was last aware.
First Scotland East aka Livingston, edinburgh etc dont.

Until the beginning of the week there on the first 38s it was the concession cards that were taking the longest time to scan , up to 10 seconds before driver could input the destination the customers required . Updates this week have seen a lot quicker response

 

[takno]

I sense that edinburghs public feel entitled to have the bus float up to them with the door at there feet, they really do not like working, edinburgh public visiting glasgow however would get a culture shock, pretty much in glasgow you put your hand out or step forward or you don’t get a bus.

The edinburgh lot expect you to be a mind reader!

Yet again the “stop at flag” nonsense is lothians idea of excellent customer service, questionable to be fair.

Never seen any evidence that the "Edinburgh lot" want any such thing, and frankly a fair amount of evidence that it just confuses the hell out of most non regular customers. It is what it is, and probably helps less able customers, but I'm sure most people would be more comfortable if they didn't do it