Lost Railcard: Forced to buy replacement return ticket

[34D]

I understand and respect your points, Mr Pink One, however we need to take a step back here.

Supermarket analogy is rarely a good thing, I acknowledge.

I suggest that in London (or on the first GA train) the OP had no idea that his father would receive a £200 bill plus court threats due to this issue.

Yes to you, this is normal, but to the outside world it isn't.

In tesco (sorry) if you forget something that could cause you to loose 50 points (£5 maybe?) they allow you to correct it next time.

I suspect that if the passenger had been given an UFN for the single, and told to get his railcard for the return else pay £135 (or whatever) he would have called his father and asked for advice.

 

[jon0844]

Clubcard points are a loyalty bonus scheme, so aren't similar to forgetting a card that validates a train ticket.

I suspect that if you had vouchers at home for a discount and forgot the voucher, you'd have to pay full price. The only difference is that Tesco might retrospectively apply the discount later (or you could return the item and buy it again), although that's for a product not a service and even that analogy doesn't work perfectly either.

 

[455driver]

I suspect that if the passenger had been given an UFN for the single, and told to get his railcard for the return else pay £135 (or whatever) he would have called his father and asked for advice.

I suspect that the passenger would have tried his luck on the return and used the "the bloke at the station said" line.

We were not there, we do not know what was said between the passenger and RPI so can only make assumptions.

What ever happened the RPI decided to take the course of action that he did.

 

[carriageline]

On the clubcard front, I recently received vouchers which I tried to use in store, but didn't have my clubcard, so got subsequently turned away. Exactly the same.

 

[reb0118]

............the OP had no idea that his father would receive a £200 bill plus court threats due to this........

The OP is the father. Or have I got this wrong? Which brings me onto:-

It seems that the young gentleman at the heart of this issue is 18 and whilst not wishing this scenario on anyone it will probably serve a a valuable life lesson - i.e get the paperwork in order!

I feel from the OP's posts that though he will be picking up the tab for this it should be pointed out that at no point has he personally been threatened with court action. This may seem a minor point, but it is not, the OP's son as an adult would be liable for any escalation due to non payment of the fare due. The OP could if he wished wash his hands of the affair and let his son stew in a mire of his own making. In reality families stick together (well decent ones do anyway) and I'm sure the OP will help out his son - that said if it was my son I would make sure I took extra stoppages out his allowance as well as requiring additional chores e.g. painting/decorating or gardening to ram the point home that the "Bank of Dad" is not amused.

Another point to make is that on paper the OP's son has not really been treated harshly. It seems that the original fare(s) paid have been taken into consideration when applying the excess - however as the full undiscounted fare is expensive by anyone's standards then there is a steep financial penalty. If this scenario had occurred under similar circumstances in the north of England with the fare set by Northern Rail I doubt that it would have generated as much interest.

I can only echo other posters advice, pay the fare due but contact customer services afterwards to see if they will take pity on you in this circumstance. That said do not expect any pity but if you don't ask you will not get.

Good luck in your endeavours.

 

[Haywain]

To me, the great irony of the situation is that if the Greater Anglia ticket inspector had taken the correct and stronger line, rather than just saying go to the ticket office for a replacement railcard, the OP's son might have incurred a much lower financial liability. He might not have got to Glastonbury (at the first attempt), but he will have understood the situation he was in. But, of course, the GA man was showing discretion and trying to deliver good customer service.

 

[jon0844]

Without reading back, hadn't the whole wallet been left behind? On that basis, how was a new railcard going to be purchased?

Wouldn't this make it more likely that when trying to sort the problem out at Liverpool Street, the conversation included the mentioning of having no money and being told something along the lines of 'well, we can't give you a new YP railcard then!'.

 

[Flamingo]

To me, the great irony of the situation is that if the Greater Anglia ticket inspector had taken the correct and stronger line, rather than just saying go to the ticket office for a replacement railcard, the OP's son might have incurred a much lower financial liability. He might not have got to Glastonbury (at the first attempt), but he will have understood the situation he was in. But, of course, the GA man was showing discretion and trying to deliver good customer service.

And we'd now all be reading a thread "Jobsworth Guard made my son miss Glastonbury"...

 

[bunnahabhain]

After all, if you forget your Tesco clubcard you receive good customer service (bring your receipt in next time for your points to be added), if you forget or loose theatre tickets they can be looked up on the database and be reprinted, if you don't have your driving licence when stopped by the police you can produce it within 14 days, forget your proof of age at a nooightclub and you'll often be subject to the attitude test, etc etc.

People make the mistake of thinking the railways will adhere to the same pro-customer principles as the rest of the world, when in truth they have a dark side, involving criminal prosecutions and 'discretion'.

Not saying its wrong or right, but there you go.

Not sure if it will be an EMT only thing, or an ATOC thing, but if you forget your railcard on EMT services in future you will be given a ONE OFF chance to present your railcard and both sets of tickets (YP discounted and non-YP discounted) at a booking office for a refund of the non-YP discounted tickets.

 

[carriageline]

Without reading back, hadn't the whole wallet been left behind? On that basis, how was a new railcard going to be purchased?

Wouldn't this make it more likely that when trying to sort the problem out at Liverpool Street, the conversation included the mentioning of having no money and being told something along the lines of 'well, we can't give you a new YP railcard then!'.

This is what I bought up, yet nothing was answered about ID/cash for Glastonbury etc.

 

[jon0844]

I think the tickets for Glastonbury now have your photo on them, so no ID is required.

But the lack of cash is clearly a concern, hoping to be able to borrow from others and not have to deal with any unforeseen circumstances.

 

[island]

I think the tickets for Glastonbury now have your photo on them, so no ID is required.

But the lack of cash is clearly a concern, hoping to be able to borrow from others and not have to deal with any unforeseen circumstances.

As the OP was 18, it would have been necessary to bring ID anyway for the purpose of purchasing alcohol (making the relatively reasonable assumption that he would have been desirous of doing so).

However, I think we're going to wind up getting the thread locked again for going OT...

 

[jon0844]

I'm not sure it IS off topic. If you couldn't physically buy a new railcard at Liverpool Street station because you had no money at all, that would explain why they weren't 'helpful'. What were they supposed to do?

I can see that someone might think that they'd just look the railcard up on the system and issue a new one, but you'd need to provide a new photo for the ID and - well - you'd also need some ID to prove that it was yours!

So, my own opinion is that when LST pointed this out, a decision was made to just travel anyway. And on that basis, the outcome seems more than fair given the circumstances.

 

[AlterEgo]

In tesco (sorry) if you forget something that could cause you to loose 50 points (£5 maybe?) they allow you to correct it next time.

But there is no loss to Tesco if you forget to swipe your Clubcard!

We're talking about a company official suspecting a customer of having not paid for goods or services.

If you must insist on using analogies, then use fair ones. Tell me what would happen if you were caught leaving Tesco having "forgotten" to pay for your week's shopping - say £100 worth.

 

[34D]

But there is no loss to Tesco if you forget to swipe your Clubcard!

We're talking about a company official suspecting a customer of having not paid for goods or services.

If you must insist on using analogies, then use fair ones. Tell me what would happen if you were caught leaving Tesco having "forgotten" to pay for your week's shopping - say £100 worth.

Erm, granny bought you a £100 tesco voucher that you're trying to redeem?

This isn't helping the op or his son. I suggest we all wait a couple of weeks for the father to post back here that his cheque has been cashed, then we can perhaps proofread a letter?

 

[Deerfold]

Erm, granny bought you a £100 tesco voucher that you're trying to redeem?

And the similar situation would be that you want to redeem it but have left it at home...

 

[TG]

The main lesson we have learned is to drive rather than take the train

His railcard WAS in his wallet. He accidentally left his wallet at home. Easy mistake to make - I've done it myself. Normally it's an inconvenience - on the train it's a disaster.

I think my points about the difficulty of the fair structure and legal penalties remains valid.

im sorry but if you turned up to an airport without a valid ticket then you wouldn't be allowed to travel, the railway is not starbucks!!

the RPI was right to charge him for a new ticket as the one he had was NO VALID without the YP railcard, your sons fault NOT the railways!!

also, your sons mistake has nothing to do with the fares stucture, just admit he made a mistake and get over it... hes not the first and wont be the last, a 10 page thread on the topic is over the top! :roll:

 

[Deerfold]

a 10 page thread on the topic is over the top! :roll:

And your post added what points that haven't been made multiple times?

 

[TG]

i was merely pointing out that you could cut this tread in half to make the points made, it reads like a stuck record for such a straight forward issue!!!

he got off lightly, FGW could have charged him for the FULL price of a SOR without the YP discount but they didn't.... pay the fare, learn from this mistake and move on...

 

[Deerfold]

i was merely pointing out that you could cut this tread in half to make the points made, it reads like a stuck record for such a straight forward issue!!!

And to do so you added a post repeating the same points...

 

[TG]

i can't read where anyone has said this thread reads like a stuck record... :roll:

 

[Mike395]

This thread is going round in circles - locked pending an update from the OP.