• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lorry ploughs into German market in Berlin

Status
Not open for further replies.

Johnuk123

Established Member
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
2,800
Protecting mass gatherings with concrete blocks is useful not just because of the risks of deliberate attacks but the risks of incidents like the Glasgow bin lorry. It's good event safety practice to ensure HGVs and masses of pedestrians can't mix

They had a high ranking German policeman on yesterday who said they'd never have concrete bollards at these type of events as the public didn't want them !
He also said once they started using things like that then the terrorists had won which is another stupid statement.
I'm afraid a lot of politicians in Europe especially Germany and Sweden are in complete denial and think/hope it will all go away.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
29,699
Location
LBK
There is no evidence that any of the terrorist attacks in recent times have been carried out by refugees.

...

Anyone who tries to blame Syrian refugees for this is lying.

I didn't suggest that.

Not all of the refugees are Syrian, though. There has been quite a bit of evidence that the Paris and Brussels attackers used well-worn migrant routes to enter Europe and the Schengen area. While genuine Syrian refugees are blameless, the fact is that the scale of the migration problem presents huge logistical problems which terror cells can use to their advantage. We genuinely don't know who's coming into the country, or what their agendas might be. I don't think that's a good thing, even if only from the standpoint of "be seen to be effective at securing the country or pay the price".

The public perception is sometimes more important than the cold hard facts.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,990
Location
UK
Public perception wins elections. And if Merkel goes because we have many more incidents between now and next September, who replaces her?

A Trump equivalent, preaching to people to 'make Germany great again'??
 

WelshBluebird

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2010
Messages
5,633
Ah, we have a liberal in our midst. Who mentioned race or nationality - I didn't.
Your liberal beliefs lies uneasily with the numbers of people from east of Instanbul who flooded into Germany after Merkel's invitation. Are you refusing to acknowledge that just some of them might be of doubtful character?
Perhaps the same also applies to Sweden - a country rapidly becoming the rape capital of Europe which like Merkel's Germany invited people from east of Instanbul in to the country.

You may want to stop putting words in people's mouths.

I am simply saying, at the moment, we have no idea if the person(s) who organised and committed this horrible act is an immigrant, is German, is of other European origin etc etc.

So it is way too early for the rhetoric about immigration, about borders, about Merkels policies over the last year.

The first person arrested was Pakistani who has now been released. Now they are apparently looking for a Tunisian. Some of the people involved in the Paris attacks were Belgian and French. The 7/7 attackers were British. Let the facts come out first before trying to make wild claims about what could have stopped it.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,669
Location
Isle of Man
The public perception is sometimes more important than the cold hard facts.

And that's the problem. People perceive that refugees- by which they really mean "people with brown skin"- are a terrorist threat. Why do they perceive this? Because the fash have spent most of the last twenty years telling them that only people with brown skin are terrorists. All the papers say it, Farage is never off the bloody television saying it, so it's no wonder that the popular perception is this.

The public are frequently wrong. They think 15% of teenage girls get pregnant, when the truth is 0.6%. They think the country is "overrun with Muslims" when only 4% of people in this country are Muslims. Instead of indulging "honest fears" that are, quite frankly, nonsense, we should be making it clear just how wrong they are. But instead we just indulge fascists (and I don't use that word lightly) like Farage, Hopkins and Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

The ringleaders of the Paris and Brussels attacks were Belgian and French nationals, born in Belgium and France. They didn't walk down any "well worn refugee routes". They weren't refugees. The rest of them were Algerian and Moroccan, legally in France and Belgium because of the colonial history of those countries. They weren't refugees either.

As I said, anyone who tries to blame refugees for this is lying. The question is, why are they lying?
 
Last edited:

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,957
Location
York
They think the country is "overrun with Muslims" when only 4% of people in this country are Muslims.
Part of the reason for people thinking that the country is overrun with immigrants is undoubtedly what the media tell us. But could not part of the feeling that it's overrun with Moslems be down to the fact that so many adherents of that religion quite deliberately choose to make themselves appear so different from the European community, both men and women? The men with their long beards and their Asian clothing, the women for the dress habits that have been so often commented on. They are choosing not to fit in. It's not a question of skin-colour. When Moslems dress like us (as many of those from the Balkans would do), I wonder how many of us would notice their presence amongst us at all.
 

Steveman

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
404
This story the incompetent German police are putting out that they found an ID from a Tunisian asylum seeker in the footwell of the lorry after 2 days sounds unbelievable to me.
Something isn't right at all about this.
 
Last edited:

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
17,856
Location
Oakham
This story the incompetent German police are putting out that they found an ID from a Tunisian asylum seeker in the footwell of the lorry after 2 days sounds unbelievable to me.
Something isn't right at all about this.

What I consider more of a concern is that we hear yet again that the attacker was already known to the security services. This is becoming somewhat of a common theme in recent years isn't it?
 

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
29,699
Location
LBK
What I consider more of a concern is that we hear yet again that the attacker was already known to the security services. This is becoming somewhat of a common theme in recent years isn't it?

Is it?

When did we ever go through a phase of having completely unknown attackers?
 

Steveman

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
404
What I consider more of a concern is that we hear yet again that the attacker was already known to the security services. This is becoming somewhat of a common theme in recent years isn't it?

The Germans must be humiliated after the news has broken about the Tunisian being well known but completely lost to the system.
It's incredibly difficult to know where all these thousands of jihadists/terrorists are all around Europe especially as they're being reinforced daily but the Germans do seem to be one of the worst at it.
As it wasn't a bomb it's rather puzzling that at least 2 women who were definitely at the scene are missing and not among the dead, one of their mobiles being found on the ground but no body, possible hostage perhaps.
 
Last edited:

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,906
Location
Richmond, London
Crossing borders within the Schengen zone isn't the same thing as "moving around with impunity", given the co-operation between police forces through Europol. Schengen isn't an open border, either.

If anything, closer ties within the EU gives us more protection because we have the shared knowledge of 28 police and intelligence forces, not just ours.

And yet look how easy it was for the Paris attackers to get back over the border to Belgium.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
12,027
Location
here to eternity
What I consider more of a concern is that we hear yet again that the attacker was already known to the security services. This is becoming somewhat of a common theme in recent years isn't it?

Whats so difficult - if he as committed (and been found guilty of) crimes he should be detaimed until such times as he can be deported. All people either granted or awaiting asylum should sign a declaration to these terms as a condition of entry. It really is time to start getting tough with those who commit crimes in the country that has given them sanctuary.
 
Last edited:

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
17,856
Location
Oakham
Whats so difficult - if he as committed (and been found guilty of) crimes he should be detaimed until such times as he can be deported. All people either granted or awaiting asylum should sign a declaration to these terms as a condition of entry. It really is time to start getting tough with those who commit crimes in the country that has given them sanctuary.

Well... we learned today that he had been in prison in Italy for four years and also that he had been under active surveillance in Germany because of the suspicions about him plotting an attack but they ceased that surveillance in September.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,990
Location
UK
Did he really leave ID in the cab or is there some attempt to hide something (maybe we're being kept in the dark while they attempt to locate someone else).

And what about someone planting ID for someone else? Perhaps someone they know can't be found, as they've already taken care of them?

It all seems very odd right now, and perfect for the tin hat brigade.
 

OneOffDave

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2015
Messages
453
Looking at the end position of the lorry and information coming out about the injuries to the Polish driver it wold appear that the terrorist tired to kill the driver to steal the lorry but didn't. The driver has come round and fought with the terrorist and steered the lorry away from the crowds before being shot. It's possible the ID was dropped during that struggle.

The photos of the path of the lorry show it being driven into the crowed market and then out back onto the road again which seems to infer that someone other than a terrorist intent on harm was trying to control the lorry.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
11,146
Location
Redcar
Attack suspect shot dead in Milan.......

The Berlin market attack suspect Anis Amri has been shot dead by police in Milan according to Italian media.

Italy's interior minister is due to hold a news conference shortly.

The man was approached by police during a routine patrol in the Sesto San Giovanni area of Milan at around 03:00 on Friday (02:00GMT), reports say.

The fingerprints of the dead man match those of the Tunisian main suspect in the truck bombing in Berlin on Monday which killed 12 people, reports say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38415287
 

zuriblue

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
558
Location
Baden Switzerland
According to reports out of Italy the suspect has been killed in a shootout with Italian Police.

Edit: the Italian Interior Minister has just confirmed that the man shot and killed by the Italian Police is the Berlin Market attack suspect.
 

zuriblue

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
558
Location
Baden Switzerland
Whats so difficult - if he as committed (and been found guilty of) crimes he should be detaimed until such times as he can be deported. All people either granted or awaiting asylum should sign a declaration to these terms as a condition of entry. It really is time to start getting tough with those who commit crimes in the country that has given them sanctuary.

The problem from reports that I've read is not that he wasn't slated but for deportation but that Tunisia refused to accept that he was one of their citizens and wouldn't take him.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,990
Location
UK
According to reports out of Italy the suspect has been killed in a shootout with Italian Police.

Edit: the Italian Interior Minister has just confirmed that the man shot and killed by the Italian Police is the Berlin Market attack suspect.

All sounds very perfect to me. I'm not one to believe 9/11 was an inside job and so on, and I know from personal experience that 7/7 was very real, but this just smacks of being - well odd.

Of course life is full of coincidences and weird things that sound unbelievable, but my spidey senses are tingling over this.
 

Steveman

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
404
IF and it's a massive IF this North African guy was the lorry killer then excellent news.
Something is telling me though that the Germans aren't telling the full story, the bit about finding his ID after 2 days is ridiculous.
Sounds very much like they can't find the real killer so a planted ID assures the German population that the killer is now dead and they can all relax until next week.
 
Last edited:

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,669
Location
Isle of Man
And yet look how easy it was for the Paris attackers to get back over the border to Belgium.

The point is not that the border between countries is secure, but that the Schengen area makes it irrelevant. The Paris attackers were found and arrested within days because of European co-operation; the Berlin killer has been found and killed this morning by Italian police because of European co-operation.

The strength comes in making a run for the border no longer being a way of evading justice.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,669
Location
Isle of Man
Sounds very much like they can't find the real killer so a planted ID assures the German population that the killer is now dead and they can all relax until next week.

I bought a load of shares in Bacofoil and I'm making a fortune off Brexiteers :lol:
 

zuriblue

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
558
Location
Baden Switzerland
its-a-conspiracy.jpg


Meme: tinfoil hat man, caption: It's a conspiracy!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,990
Location
UK
It probably isn't made up, because it sounds so obviously made up. Or perhaps that's the idea...

Ah, paradox..

(head explodes)
 

Barn

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,487
The strength comes in making a run for the border no longer being a way of evading justice.

BBC News said:
Amri, a Tunisian national aged 24, had served a prison sentence in Italy after being convicted of vandalism, threats and theft in 2011.

He was known to Italian authorities for his violent behaviour while imprisoned.

After his release he was asked to leave the country. He arrived in Germany where he applied for asylum in April of this year.

It sounds like sending people to the border to get rid of a problem was exactly what did happen.

After being jailed for (inter alia) setting fire to a school, Italy seems to have effectively said to him "could you just leave please; we don't particularly mind where?". Unsurprisingly he chose the unprotected northern Schengen border rather than returning to his native Tunisia where he was wanted for crimes.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top