Longest through journeys for first generation DMU sets

[Polarbear]

Back in the day, Manchester Victoria to Holyhead was a fairly regular one in the north west. About 125 miles each way.

 

[Magdalia]

Back in the day, Manchester Victoria to Holyhead was a fairly regular one in the north west. About 125 miles each way.

That's a short journey. Cambridge-Birmingham, which I have done frequently, was 137 miles.

Norwich-Birmingham was 175 miles and ran every weekday 1968-77.

 

[GordonT]

Norwich-Birmingham was 175 miles and ran every weekday 1968-77.

A student friend of mine from Lowestoft c50 years ago referred to the units on services such as this as "bog cars". Unsure whether this was widely used terminology.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I heard "bog carts" fairly widely in the 1980s

 

[GordonT]

I heard "bog carts" fairly widely in the 1980s

Ah - that I think was the description I probably misheard as "bog cars".

 

[43096]

I heard "bog carts" fairly widely in the 1980s

Also known as "fart carts"!

 

[norbitonflyer]

"Bog unit" was the local spotters term for them round my way - although I originally misheard it as "Bug Unit"

 

[hexagon789]

"Bog unit" was the local spotters term for them round my way - although I originally misheard it as "Bug Unit"

All variations of the same thing, I've seen:

Bog Carts
Bog Units
Bugs
Bug Carts
Bug Chariots
Bug Units

All referring to 1st gen DMUs, and sometimes extended to 2nd gen too.

 

[Gloster]

If I remember correctly, up to the beginning of the 1980s there was an Oxford-Paignton and return DMU that ran on Summer Saturdays only; I think it ran via Bristol. It was one of the first of the Down daytime trains that would keep us busy for several hours.

 

[Taunton]

If I remember correctly, up to the beginning of the 1980s there was an Oxford-Paignton and return DMU that ran on Summer Saturdays only; I think it ran via Bristol. It was one of the first of the Down daytime trains that would keep us busy for several hours.

That used the "Inter City" final build of Swindon dmus, which on weekdays were running commuter services to Paddington. When new in the 1960s they ran a daily return through train from Cardiff to Paignton and Plymouth, dividing at Newton Abbot, I used to see the 8-car formation growling out of Taunton westbound mid-morning. Goodness knows what performance was like going up Dainton; after a year or so they were moved on and a Hymek loco-hauled train was substituted.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

That used the "Inter City" final build of Swindon dmus, which on weekdays were running commuter services to Paddington.

They were used on the evening fast service to Maidenhead, Twyford and Henley in the early 1970s. The interiors were the same as Mk1s complete with second class compartments. They didn't build that many which is perhaps a surprise as they could have been suitable for longer distance services. It may have been the 70 mph top speed that precluded wider use and also saw them banished from the London area mains so as not to hold up the then new 125 mph IC125s.

 

[Gloster]

That used the "Inter City" final build of Swindon dmus, which on weekdays were running commuter services to Paddington. When new in the 1960s they ran a daily return through train from Cardiff to Paignton and Plymouth, dividing at Newton Abbot, I used to see the 8-car formation growling out of Taunton westbound mid-morning. Goodness knows what performance was like going up Dainton; after a year or so they were moved on and a Hymek loco-hauled train was substituted.

By 1980 they were using one of the WR’s normal London Division suburban units.

 

[nw1]

They were used on the evening fast service to Maidenhead, Twyford and Henley in the early 1970s. The interiors were the same as Mk1s complete with second class compartments. They didn't build that many which is perhaps a surprise as they could have been suitable for longer distance services. It may have been the 70 mph top speed that precluded wider use and also saw them banished from the London area mains so as not to hold up the then new 125 mph IC125s.

I have downloaded a Paddington working book from 1974/75 from the BR Coaching Stock groups.io group which gives a fascinating insight into this era, immediately before HSTs.

The following down services in the evening peak appeared to be operated by IC units:

1603 Reading 2A42 Relief line, 4+3 car units
1650 FX Newbury 1A05 Main line, off 1457 Reading due 1554,single 4-car unit
1702 Bedwyn 1A80 Main line, also off 1457 Reading due 1554, 3+4 car units
1721 Henley 1A84 Main line, 3+4+4 car units
1821 Henley 1A96 Main line, off 1705 Reading due 1800, 4+3 car units, same units as 1603 Reading

It's also interesting that in the pre-HST era there were many more DMU services using the mainlines, and not just the IC DMUs either - presumably because they would not hold up following services. The Didcot/Oxford and Reading services off-peak, largely standard DMU operated, were main line, leaving at xx18 and xx48 immediately behind a Bristol or South Wales express.

All were gone by the 1978 timetable, even from the relief lines.

 

[Taunton]

In a Paddington working book the dmus may have left on the Main line, but were crossed onto the Reliefs quite soon. Gone by this time but even the Birmingham expresses used to leave on the Main, and cross to the Reliefs and then turning off at Old Oak. This can be seen in the well-known cab view film of the Birmingham Pullman.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Back in the day, Manchester Victoria to Holyhead was a fairly regular one in the north west. About 125 miles each way.

Having studiously avoided those 1970s 'Merrymaker' excursions from Manchester that seemed likely to use DMUs, I think my personal best/worst would be a 1990 holiday journey from Manchester Victoria to Llandudno with our young son. At least bagging the front seats in the Class 101 (I think) largely made up for any other discomforts.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

All were gone by the 1978 timetable, even from the relief lines.

The evening fasts to Maidenhead and Twyford went over to Class 47 or 50 haulage, sometimes using InterCity Mk2s between longer distance duties

In the mornings there were presumably not so many IC125s arriving in the commuter peak, so the 70 mph 117s were still allowed on the Mains if running non-stop from Slough or Maidenhead.

 

[nw1]

The evening fasts to Maidenhead and Twyford went over to Class 47 or 50 haulage, sometimes using InterCity Mk2s between longer distance duties

In the mornings there were presumably not so many IC125s arriving in the commuter peak, so the 70 mph 117s were still allowed on the Mains if running non-stop from Slough or Maidenhead.

Actually one curious anomaly in the early HST era concerns the slower Oxford peak services, where there seemed to be very generous provision.

A bit OT as these were loco-hauled, but in 1981 we had:

1730 to Banbury. A fast service, Reading, Didcot and Oxford, which plugged the gap between the two Hereford peak services.

But then we had:

1733 Twyford, Goring, Cholsey, Didcot, Oxford (9-car)

and

1736 Maidenhead, Reading and all to Oxford (8-car)

Half an hour later, we had

1800 to Hereford (first stop Oxford)

and then

1803 same calling pattern as 1733 (8-car)
1806 same calling pattern as 1736 (11-car)

I'm not usually one for questioning high frequency of services, but it almost seems like the 1733/1736 and 1803/1806 could have been each combined into one working, calling at Maidenhead and then all to Oxford. As a commuter at the time, do you remember why there was this seemingly very generous provision? I do speak naively: I didn't use the railways in 1981 full stop, let alone the GWML between Paddington and Reading/Oxford!

Perhaps the sheer volume of Reading commuters (the HSTs largely skipped Reading or called to pick up only in the peak) meant that a train serving Reading and all the other stops would have been ridiculously overcrowded? Between the 1736 and 1806, only one fast served Reading to set down - the 1752 Westbury, so Reading did have quite a thin peak service at the time compared to say the smaller Guildford with a train every 10 mins. And before the 1730, the previous service available to Reading commuters was the 1706 Newbury.

To be fair in 1982 the 1736/1806 (slightly retimed) were then cut back to terminating at Twyford with the 1733/1803 (again retimed) making extra stops.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

But then we had:

1733 Twyford, Goring, Cholsey, Didcot, Oxford (9-car)

and

1736 Maidenhead, Reading and all to Oxford (8-car)

...

and then

1803 same calling pattern as 1733 (8-car)
1806 same calling pattern as 1736 (11-car)

I'm not usually one for questioning high frequency of services, but it almost seems like the 1733/1736 and 1803/1806 could have been each combined into one working, calling at Maidenhead and then all to Oxford.

Historically Henley was treated as an important destination with evening commuter services before diesels hailed by express steam with corridor stock. The perceived importance seemed to persist, hence running services first stop Twyford to give a fast service to Henley.

Maidenhead was also an important destination, both in itself and for connections to the Marlow branch.

From memory of commuting to and from Bourne End in the 1970s, the evening peak fast services were usually full and perhaps standing even when they went no further than Twyford.

 

[jfollows]

Actually one curious anomaly in the early HST era concerns the slower Oxford peak services, where there seemed to be very generous provision.

A bit OT as these were loco-hauled, but in 1981 we had:

1730 to Banbury. A fast service, Reading, Didcot and Oxford, which plugged the gap between the two Hereford peak services.

But then we had:

1733 Twyford, Goring, Cholsey, Didcot, Oxford (9-car)

and

1736 Maidenhead, Reading and all to Oxford (8-car)

Half an hour later, we had

1800 to Hereford (first stop Oxford)

and then

1803 same calling pattern as 1733 (8-car)
1806 same calling pattern as 1736 (11-car)

I'm not usually one for questioning high frequency of services, but it almost seems like the 1733/1736 and 1803/1806 could have been each combined into one working, calling at Maidenhead and then all to Oxford. As a commuter at the time, do you remember why there was this seemingly very generous provision? I do speak naively: I didn't use the railways in 1981 full stop, let alone the GWML between Paddington and Reading/Oxford!

Perhaps the sheer volume of Reading commuters (the HSTs largely skipped Reading or called to pick up only in the peak) meant that a train serving Reading and all the other stops would have been ridiculously overcrowded? Between the 1736 and 1806, only one fast served Reading to set down - the 1752 Westbury, so Reading did have quite a thin peak service at the time compared to say the smaller Guildford with a train every 10 mins. And before the 1730, the previous service available to Reading commuters was the 1706 Newbury.

To be fair in 1982 the 1736/1806 (slightly retimed) were then cut back to terminating at Twyford with the 1733/1803 (again retimed) making extra stops.

1M42 D350 17:30 Reading 18:00-18:02 then RL
1A34 D350 17:33 RL at Ruscombe, Twford 18:00-18p02, Reading 18/07
1A36 D385 17:36 RL at Maidenhead East, Maidenhead 17:58-18q00
1C62 D315/D385 FX/FO 18:00 RL at Reading FO only
1A44 D315 18:03 RL at Ruscombe, Twyford 18:30-18q32, Reading 18/38
1A46 D385 18:06 RL at Maidenhead East, Maidenhead 18:28-18q30

RL - Relief Line
p - advertised 1 minute earlier
/ - passing time
q - advertised 2 minutes earlier

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

Got to page three and jumped to here so apologies if suggested already, couldn't find any mention of it in first three pages:

Didn't 1st gen DMUs do London Marylebone to Nottingham Victoria? Maybe class 117s or 115s? That is about 125 miles, maybe more. Not sure if they ventured any further north of there towards Manchester?

 

[Polarbear]

Got to page three and jumped to here so apologies if suggested already, couldn't find any mention of it in first three pages:

Didn't 1st gen DMUs do London Marylebone to Nottingham Victoria? Maybe class 117s or 115s? That is about 125 miles, maybe more. Not sure if they ventured any further north of there towards Manchester?

They did indeed-115’s most likely. Don’t think they got beyond Nottingham though.

 

[RT4038]

Got to page three and jumped to here so apologies if suggested already, couldn't find any mention of it in first three pages:

Didn't 1st gen DMUs do London Marylebone to Nottingham Victoria? Maybe class 117s or 115s? That is about 125 miles, maybe more. Not sure if they ventured any further north of there towards Manchester?

Only Marylebone-Nottingham. Aside from overnight trains, and the Newcastle-Poole train, there was no service north of Nottingham Victoria when the DMUs were used.

 

[Gloster]

Got to page three and jumped to here so apologies if suggested already, couldn't find any mention of it in first three pages:

Didn't 1st gen DMUs do London Marylebone to Nottingham Victoria? Maybe class 117s or 115s? That is about 125 miles, maybe more. Not sure if they ventured any further north of there towards Manchester?

It was just one train a day during the last few years of the line being open. In the last timetable it was 08.38 from Marylebone and 12.20 from Nottingham, which could be fitted in between peak-hour duties.

 

[westernpunk]

All variations of the same thing, I've seen:

Bog Carts
Bog Units
Bugs
Bug Carts
Bug Chariots
Bug Units

All referring to 1st gen DMUs, and sometimes extended to 2nd gen too.

my mate always called them bone shakers or rattlers on account of the windows rattling when idling

 

[Magdalia]

The following down services in the evening peak appeared to be operated by IC units:


1721 Henley 1A84 Main line, 3+4+4 car units
1821 Henley 1A96 Main line, off 1705 Reading due 1800, 4+3 car units, same units as 1603 Reading

The Swindon Inter City DMUs worked the Paddington-Henley commuter trains from 1968 to 1976.

Historically Henley was treated as an important destination with evening commuter services before diesels hailed by express steam with corridor stock.

Prior to that, but after the end of steam, there was a brief period of Hymek on Paddington-Henley commuter trains. which ended with the Paddington area resignalling that knocked out the run round facility at Henley.

It may have been the 70 mph top speed that precluded wider use and also saw them banished from the London area mains so as not to hold up the then new 125 mph IC125s.

And this is indeed why the through workings to Henley finished in 1976. The Swindon Inter City DMUs were then briefly tried on the Cardiff-Crewe route but were a disaster.

Actually one curious anomaly in the early HST era concerns the slower Oxford peak services, where there seemed to be very generous provision.

A bit OT as these were loco-hauled, but in 1981 we had:

1730 to Banbury. A fast service, Reading, Didcot and Oxford, which plugged the gap between the two Hereford peak services.

But then we had:

1733 Twyford, Goring, Cholsey, Didcot, Oxford (9-car)

and

1736 Maidenhead, Reading and all to Oxford (8-car)

Half an hour later, we had

1800 to Hereford (first stop Oxford)

and then

1803 same calling pattern as 1733 (8-car)
1806 same calling pattern as 1736 (11-car)

I'm not usually one for questioning high frequency of services, but it almost seems like the 1733/1736 and 1803/1806 could have been each combined into one working, calling at Maidenhead and then all to Oxford. As a commuter at the time, do you remember why there was this seemingly very generous provision? I do speak naively: I didn't use the railways in 1981 full stop, let alone the GWML between Paddington and Reading/Oxford!

This wasn't a curious anomaly, it was a clever piece of timetabling that made maximum use of main line capacity, the key factor being how far could a 90 mph train get on the main line before it got caught by by a 125mph HST following behind. I travelled on these trains occasionally and they were well loaded, both with Twyford and Maidenhead commuters, and commuters connecting for Henley and Marlow.

The 1733 and 1803 were main line to Ruscombe and crossed to the relief line there (with 70 mph crossovers) before stopping at Twyford.
The 1736 and 1806 were main line to just before Maidenhead and crossed to the relief line before stopping at Maidenhead.

In each case the trains had to get off the main line for HSTs departing Paddington at 1745 and 1815.

At one or both down trains used to cross to the up relief to give a cross platform connection for the branch line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2026 ==

Didn't 1st gen DMUs do London Marylebone to Nottingham Victoria? Maybe class 117s or 115s? That is about 125 miles, maybe more. Not sure if they ventured any further north of there towards Manchester?

Only Marylebone-Nottingham. Aside from overnight trains, and the Newcastle-Poole train, there was no service north of Nottingham Victoria when the DMUs were used.

For 3 winters 1959-60, 1960-61 and 1961-62 the York-Bournemouth did not run in the winter, and was replaced by a DMU running York to Banbury and back. I think York-Banbury via the GC was just over 150 miles.

 

[nw1]

The Swindon Inter City DMUs worked the Paddington-Henley commuter trains from 1968 to 1976.


Prior to that, but after the end of steam, there was a brief period of Hymek on Paddington-Henley commuter trains. which ended with the Paddington area resignalling that knocked out the run round facility at Henley.


And this is indeed why the through workings to Henley finished in 1976. The Swindon Inter City DMUs were then briefly tried on the Cardiff-Crewe route but were a disaster.


This wasn't a curious anomaly, it was a clever piece of timetabling that made maximum use of main line capacity, the key factor being how far could a 90 mph train get on the main line before it got caught by by a 125mph HST following behind. I travelled on these trains occasionally and they were well loaded, both with Twyford and Maidenhead commuters, and commuters connecting for Henley and Marlow.

The 1733 and 1803 were main line to Ruscombe and crossed to the relief line there (with 70 mph crossovers) before stopping at Twyford.
The 1736 and 1806 were main line to just before Maidenhead and crossed to the relief line before stopping at Maidenhead.

In each case the trains had to get off the main line for HSTs departing Paddington at 1745 and 1815.

At one or both down trains used to cross to the up relief to give a cross platform connection for the branch line.

Interesting - I figured the bunching was due to ensuring the main lines were clear for following HSTs, but I was curious about two separate trains each half hour as opposed to one. But it appears that Twyford and Maidenhead as well as Reading had very large numbers of commuters, which even a half-hourly full-length loco-hauled consist would have been unable to handle.

BR really were very ingenious at times with their timetabling.

 

[marsker]

Although not as long as some, in the early 60s there were a couple of return trips between Newcastle and Leeds operated by 4 car DMUs which were over 100 miles. Most were Metro Cammell sets, but I have seen photos of the early Derby Lightweight sets (yellow diamond) being used. In those days, their 70 mph top speed didn't stop them having a fast line path (Thirsk had fast line platforms in those days).
At some point, they gained the buffet car sets that South Gosforth had.

 

[GordonT]

Although not as long as some, in the early 60s there were a couple of return trips between Newcastle and Leeds operated by 4 car DMUs which were over 100 miles. Most were Metro Cammell sets, but I have seen photos of the early Derby Lightweight sets (yellow diamond) being used. In those days, their 70 mph top speed didn't stop them having a fast line path (Thirsk had fast line platforms in those days).
At some point, they gained the buffet car sets that South Gosforth had.

Not especially lengthy but slightly bizarrely there was an infrequent opportunity to bounce your way up the ECML to Berwick on Tweed on a DMU from Newcastle at one time.

 

[Falcon1200]

Similar challenges would have been faced by services climbing from Uddingston to Bellshill

OTOH the ride down Bellshill Bank on a DMU not booked to call at Uddingston could be exhilarating!

If I remember correctly, up to the beginning of the 1980s there was an Oxford-Paignton and return DMU that ran on Summer Saturdays only;

I assisted with the 'buffet' (actually a trolley in the brake area) on this service in 1978 and at that time it was formed by one of the Oxford/Paddington loco-hauled sets.

In a Paddington working book the dmus may have left on the Main line, but were crossed onto the Reliefs quite soon.

I recall Oxford-Paddington DMU stoppers, non-stop from Slough to Paddington, crossing from Relief to Main at Dolphin Junction, to the east of Slough. In the early 1970s however, before the days of 125mph trains!

The longest DMU trip I recall was a Sunday Oxford/Barry Island excursion in the late 1970s, formed by multiple Pressed Steel bog-carts (as we called them, not Class 117) in the late 1970s. Handy for visiting the scrapyard, Canton and Radyr.

 

[Harpo]

If I remember correctly, up to the beginning of the 1980s there was an Oxford-Paignton and return DMU that ran on Summer Saturdays only; I think it ran via Bristol. It was one of the first of the Down daytime trains that would keep us busy for several hours.

I remember the Oxford - Paignton in the mid 80s as a 50 turn and a means to scoop Foxhall curve. And yes, it ran via Bath & Bristol.