Longest Scotrail formation? (excluding Sleeper and 380s)

[asylumxl]

What is the longest Scotrail train formation in normal service, excluding the sleeper and the 380s. I'd imagine about 6 carriages?

Thanks in advance

 

[90019]

I think the longest in service is 6 carriages.
Can't think of any that operate anything longer (Not including the Fife Circle LHCS either).

 

[CarterUSM]

What is the longest Scotrail train formation in normal service, excluding the sleeper and the 380s. I'd imagine about 6 carriages?

Thanks in advance

Spot on, 6 carriages. I remember a few years ago we ran a special from Dumfries when Queen of the South got to the Scottish Cup final. It was if I remember a 12? car 156. Not 100 % sure though.

 

[asylumxl]

Sounds interesting! Any other rare formations would be interesting to hear about .

 

[rail-britain]

The majority of stations have signs for :
2, 3, 4, or 6 cars
This would allow combinations of -
156 / 158
156+156+156
318+318 / 320+320 / 334+334
However, this varies by route and units available

A small number of stations have retained older signs for 9 cars, but this is from the days in which 3 car first generation DMUs operated

A few specials have operated, usually as the maximum length of the destination platform
An example are the Mount Florida - Glasgow services for events at Hampden Park, which can see Class 322 plus one other EMU type

When loco hauled services ended on the GSW, the final Carlisle - Glasgow was made up of two of the Mark 2 coach sets together, making 10 coaches

 

[ukrob]

Spot on, 6 carriages. I remember a few years ago we ran a special from Dumfries when Queen of the South got to the Scottish Cup final. It was if I remember a 12? car 156. Not 100 % sure though.

Pretty sure that Sprinters can only operate with a maximum of ten cabs - ie 10 car for a 156.

 

[jopsuk]

Fife Circle is max 6 carriages- several stations were extended for the introduction of turbostars.
There's quite a lot of stations on the diesel routes out of Waverly and Queen Street can take longer trains- how many of the Highland Chieftain's stops are shorter than the train?
I know Polmont is an ex-HST stop (still has the signs), Larbert has quite long platforms too? Bridge of Allan? Dunblane?

For services from Queen Street, the limiting station is really Queen Street itself.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Looking at long trains generally. On the introduction of 158s on NW-Anglia back in the early 90s, a 10 car press-run ran from Sheffield. Anyone any pics?

Can anyone remember BR jumbo trains onservices to the SW? In the 80s? (Sometimes double-headed 31s)

Sorry - does this belong somewhere else really?

 

[Eng274]

Fife Circle is max 6 carriages- several stations were extended for the introduction of turbostars.
There's quite a lot of stations on the diesel routes out of Waverly and Queen Street can take longer trains- how many of the Highland Chieftain's stops are shorter than the train?
I know Polmont is an ex-HST stop (still has the signs), Larbert has quite long platforms too? Bridge of Allan? Dunblane?

For services from Queen Street, the limiting station is really Queen Street itself.

Falkirk grahamston is also too short, but I don't think northbound HSTs stop there any more. I think on one of the road bridges adjacent to the station approach there's a sign on the tunnel underneath warning passengers to check there's a platform before trying to alight.

According to the signage in the EC carriage windows, inverkeithing, Kirkcaldy and I think Haymarket, are highlighted as being too short for the length of the train.

 

[ainsworth74]

Falkirk grahamston is also too short, but I don't think northbound HSTs stop there any more.

Nope it still calls in both directions (see here and here).

 

[Liam]

Falkirk grahamston is also too short, but I don't think northbound HSTs stop there any more. I think on one of the road bridges adjacent to the station approach there's a sign on the tunnel underneath warning passengers to check there's a platform before trying to alight.

According to the signage in the EC carriage windows, inverkeithing, Kirkcaldy and I think Haymarket, are highlighted as being too short for the length of the train.

I think at Kirkcaldy the loco's are off the platformm but everything else squeezes in, Inverkeithing is to short though.

 

[jopsuk]

Knew about Falkirk- though Haymarket was fine, or is just the Fife line platforms that are a bit short?

 

[142094]

Last time I was in Glasgow Central there was a 3x156 departing in the evening rush hour, I guess this is a regular occurrence?

 

[CarterUSM]

Last time I was in Glasgow Central there was a 3x156 departing in the evening rush hour, I guess this is a regular occurrence?

Yes indeed, common booked formation, especially on East Kilbride services, very busy line all day and evening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pretty sure that Sprinters can only operate with a maximum of ten cabs - ie 10 car for a 156.

Yep, correct, my memory of it is hazy however.

 

[trains2064]

12 cars not more than 12 cabs.

ie class 156's can be up to 6 2car sets but 153's can only be 6 cars as the are 2 cabs per vehicle.

Ofcause platform lengths and loops can mean this is lower but taking out of the equation any inferstructure related issues, it 12 cars not mor than 12 cabs.

 

[CarterUSM]

12 cars not more than 12 cabs.

ie class 156's can be up to 6 2car sets but 153's can only be 6 cars as the are 2 cabs per vehicle.

Ofcause platform lengths and loops can mean this is lower but taking out of the equation any inferstructure related issues, it 12 cars not mor than 12 cabs.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, you are correct with 12 cars, we don't run any more than 10 as empties as they won't fit into Corkerhill reception sidings.

 

[rail-britain]

Last time I was in Glasgow Central there was a 3x156 departing in the evening rush hour, I guess this is a regular occurrence?

The original plan was for the GSW services to be transferred from Class 156 to Class 170 (singles and pairs)
However, this was not possible , which has resulted in these large numbers of Class 156 units being retained

 

[EltonRoad]

Falkirk grahamston is also too short, but I don't think northbound HSTs stop there any more.

Northbound sleeper doesn't stop there. No idea why though.

 

[90019]

I'm pretty sure there are some services that run with 3x158, but I don't think there's very many.

 

[Eng274]

I'm pretty sure there are some services that run with 3x158, but I don't think there's very many.

ive seen that before as well, possibly an edinburgh-aberdeen.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Arent the new 380s 3 and 4 car units... which would give 6, 7 and 8 cars depending on how they use them?

 

[CarterUSM]

Arent the new 380s 3 and 4 car units... which would give 6, 7 and 8 cars depending on how they use them?

Yep, indeedy.

 

[rail-britain]

Northbound sleeper doesn't stop there. No idea why though.

The service passes Falkirk Grahamston too early
The platform would normally be unlit, making it unsuitable

Historically, passengers are advised to travel on the Euston - Edinburgh or to Stirling and travel back to Falkirk Grahamston
Northbound passengers would not be woken before 04:30, making this unsuitable for Falkirk Grahamston

 

[route101]

Yep, indeedy.

Ive been on 6 and 7 car 380 . I took the 1712 Glasgow to Kilmarnock on Sunday and noticed 6 car signs at Platforms so this line may get 6 car 156s . The EK line has a few 6 car 156s and are well needed.

 

[rail-britain]

Arent the new 380s 3 and 4 car units... which would give 6, 7 and 8 cars depending on how they use them?

OP doesn't want to know about 380s (for some reason)
You are correct, combinations of 6, 7, and 8 are possible

However, an issue has been raised over 7 and 8 cars units
As a result the current maximum on some routes and services is temporarily 6 cars (also resulting in 4 cars replacing 3+3 where one of those 3 is not available)
In due course this should be resolved, allowing 7 and 8 car units without restriction

 

[Blindtraveler]

The original plan was for the GSW services to be transferred from Class 156 to Class 170 (singles and pairs)
However, this was not possible , which has resulted in these large numbers of Class 156 units being retained

why is this not possible? Line clearance? Or just too much demand for 170s

 

[CarterUSM]

I believe clearance is the issue. Sectional appendix states they may only run empty coaches on the G&SW.

 

[rail-britain]

Yes, same issue as Class 158, but not to the same degree
Some platforms would have needed adjustment, ScotRail would have had to have paid NR for the work, the decision was taken not to proceed
Class 156 will soldier on until electrification commences

 

[CarterUSM]

Yes, same issue as Class 158, but not to the same degree
Some platforms would have needed adjustment, ScotRail would have had to have paid NR for the work, the decision was taken not to proceed
Class 156 will soldier on until electrification commences

And they will soldier on well!

 

[Blindtraveler]

what I wonder wil happen if electrification isnt done and the 156s are life expired, do the platform work? Or a new build DMU?