Long term plan for Chiltern's Mk3 "Heritage" rake.

[HSTEd]

Only if the neck is properly braced and supported.

Otherwise you will get whiplash injuries which at the extreme can break someone's neck.

 

[RPM]

Apart from the power doors a lot of the refurb for these trains was done under Wrexham and Shropshire anyway.

Only on some of the coaches. Chiltern have more refurbished mark 3s than W&S ever did.

Going back to the original question about the blue & grey set, these coaches may get the full silver refurb at some point in the future but it isn't set in stone. It just depends on passenger growth, availability of additional multiple unit stock etc.

At the moment the set serves a useful purpose in the peaks but it isn't popular with the regular commuters who use it, who see themselves as second class citizens. Perusal of the Chiltern Twitter feed shows regular references to it as "the rust bucket" or "that 1970s throwback". I don't think Chiltern did themselves any favours painting it into BR blue & grey; it kind of re-enforces its age in the mind of the commuters.

 

[47802]

Only on some of the coaches. Chiltern have more refurbished mark 3s than W&S ever did.

Going back to the original question about the blue & grey set, these coaches may get the full silver refurb at some point in the future but it isn't set in stone. It just depends on passenger growth, availability of additional multiple unit stock etc.

At the moment the set serves a useful purpose in the peaks but it isn't popular with the regular commuters who use it, who see themselves as second class citizens. Perusal of the Chiltern Twitter feed shows regular references to it as "the rust bucket" or "that 1970s throwback". I don't think Chiltern did themselves any favours painting it into BR blue & grey; it kind of re-enforces its age in the mind of the commuters.

Did Chiltern repaint this in Blue and Grey? or is it a former Cargo D set which they haven't repainted?

 

[RPM]

Did Chiltern repaint this in Blue and Grey? or is it a former Cargo D set which they haven't repainted?

Some were already blue & grey and some were in Virgin livery but Chiltern had them all repainted in blue & grey with Chiltern logos. The vestibules were re-carpeted at the same time.

 

[455driver]

Apart from the power doors a lot of the refurb for these trains was done under Wrexham and Shropshire anyway.

So a lick of paint and some seat covers cost more than cutting half the coach apart to fit the power doors and retention tanks does it?

 

[Yew]

What state is the carriage in inside BTW, are we talking unrefurbished since the last virgin refurbishment? or was the inside spruced up to a reasonable standard..

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Apologies for the quality of the photo, was taken during hours of darkness:

(full size image)

It's not hideous in there, it's just that the other stock is to such a high standard it makes the slam door rake look bad. Standard on the power door mark 3 sets is probably better than first on a lot of other trains. Even the 168s have plug sockets at every seat and WiFi and it seems passengers are really into having those things available. I guess the rise of smartphones and tablets mean that more people are happy to travel by train if it means they can do work or play around on the internet.

So a lick of paint and some seat covers cost more than cutting half the coach apart to fit the power doors and retention tanks does it?

It wasn't just reupholstering, the layout of the saloon was changed too. There are a lot more tables in each of the refurbs than in older Mk3 coaches. Chiltern refurbished quite a few extra Mk3 coaches to the WSMR design instead of going with a seating layout more in line with what you would find in a 168, partly because of passenger feedback and partly because it was cheaper (I think) to run 6 car sets with the WSMR design than 5 car sets with the denser seating layout because it meant fewer coaches would need refurbishing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's been re-upholstered and re-trimmed; it looks quite nice actually.

 

[chubs]

It looks tired and old, a bit like the GA sets but less bright.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The "less bright" is a plus point to me - I find excessively bright lighting very uncomfortable and not at all relaxing.

 

[47802]

It looks tired and old, a bit like the GA sets but less bright.

Indeed, personally I find that all Mk3's with the original style seats look dated even those with a better refurb than the one in the picture, probably has something to do with to fact I'm now 53 and they don't look a great deal different to the Mk3's I travelled in at the age of 15, while those Mk3's with new seats and an extensive refurb feel more like a new train while retaining the benefits of a Mk3 coach.

But on the other hand they are still at lot better than a Rail Bus, maybe a fleet of 142's should take of the blue grey turn

 

[chubs]

The "less bright" is a plus point to me - I find excessively bright lighting very uncomfortable and not at all relaxing.

I meant the colours of the carpet and seats being very dark rather than the lighting, the lighter colours on the GA sets are nicer. The whole carriage just looks grim and depressing and dated.

Overall though I'd be very unhappy if I usually got a refurbed train and occasionally this came along instead.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

That rake is rarely (if ever?) off of it's booked diagram. Wembley event days are really the only times I can think where it might work more than it's two booked services a day.

 

[Chester025]

That rake is rarely (if ever?) off of it's booked diagram. Wembley event days are really the only times I can think where it might work more than it's two booked services a day.

It has also worked to Brum when there has been a blockade on the West Coast, the last time it did this was Sunday 10th August -

67023 Birmingham Moor Street by Chester025, on Flickr

It has also worked reliefs to Stratford for the past couple of years for the 'Global Gathering' festival -

67023 Stratford-upon-Avon by Chester025, on Flickr

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Yeah, that makes sense, but the point remains it's never subbed in for anything it's on it's booked turns or there to strengthen services for a specific event. Your chances of having it turn up out of the blue when expecting a silver set or a 168 are pretty remote. Loco hauled stock needs to be carefully diagrammed even if it is only to work around the train crew who actually sign them (probably less than half of Chiltern drivers, and they can't work DOO south of Banbury like DMUs can so a guard will need to be rostered through to London too).

 

[capital12]

How can you possibly have comfort if there is nowhere to rest your head? IC70 seating is only suitable for people of limited stature.

The safety is limiting the movement of the head in rapid deceleration or acceleration. You don't have to crash to be injured.

I'm 6'3 and never had a problem, ok if I'm a bit tired possibly miss something to rest head on but that's not that often! Most of the modern supposedly crash worthy seats are usually so bloody uncomfortable that the chances of needing to rest head are pretty slim!!

I've experienced a journey on Greater Anglia Mk3 with same type of seats as discussing where we made 3 or 4 emergency brake applications from full speed due to a TDM fault and the force was barely enough to spill my coffee let alone give me whiplash! So unless it crashes and the deceleration is much more rapid, under any service braking (normal or emergency) you are not going to be injured while sat in any seat.

 

[sprinterguy]

I meant the colours of the carpet and seats being very dark rather than the lighting, the lighter colours on the GA sets are nicer. The whole carriage just looks grim and depressing and dated.

Overall though I'd be very unhappy if I usually got a refurbed train and occasionally this came along instead.

I don’t think that the photo being taken during the hours of darkness helps – The set doesn’t look that grubby or run down in reality and when seen in daylight.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeah, that makes sense, but the point remains it's never subbed in for anything it's on it's booked turns or there to strengthen services for a specific event. Your chances of having it turn up out of the blue when expecting a silver set or a 168 are pretty remote.

Not “never”, but it has been a while since it subbed for a silver set at short notice, so probably rare enough to escape consideration: I’m not sure if the silver sets even had power doors fitted the last time I saw it turn up in Birmingham as a last minute substitution.

 

[67018]

I'd advise people to try it before they knock it - having used it twice a day most working days for a year or two, I found it did the job perfectly. Indeed I'd rather have it back in the mornings as it's quieter than a 168 and so easier to have a kip on!

OK, it doesn't look the plushest thing about and the heating had a tendency to fail, but there is far worse stock around.

Answering a previous point, Chiltern might need more DMUs *and* the loco hauled stock if passenger numbers keep growing and the Oxford route takes off - not just in the peak, but some Saturday trains are packed too.

 

[childwallblues]

Indeed, personally I find that all Mk3's with the original style seats look dated even those with a better refurb than the one in the picture, probably has something to do with to fact I'm now 53 and they don't look a great deal different to the Mk3's I travelled in at the age of 15, while those Mk3's with new seats and an extensive refurb feel more like a new train while retaining the benefits of a Mk3 coach.

But on the other hand they are still at lot better than a Rail Bus, maybe a fleet of 142's should take of the blue grey turn

I would think that the commuters using the Banbury set would prefer it to say a pair of 165s which was probably used in the past.