London to Westbury

[DaveNewcastle]

Without wanting to drag this on too long, I recall that I did support the industry's position that stopping short was clearly breaking the T&Cs (whether a Railway Officer would be too bothered or not might depend partly on whether any additional revenue might be payable for the shorter journey as in this case and might not). BUT, that I did acknowledge an exception, which would be if the passenger ALSO held a single ticket from the destination of the original ticket back to where they were alighting (in this case a single from Pewsey back to Westbury - but as that would cost a little more than the saving in buying the Pewsey ticket, it doesn't help here!).

My analysis included "the Railways" having conveyed the passenger from the origin to the destination and the fact that a passenger is not compelled to travel in a comparable way to "the Railways" being compelled to convey a passenger. I proposed this hypothetical conversation in the vestibule of the train arriving at Westbury between the Guard and the passenger holding the Padd - Pewsey ticket and also the Pewsey - Westbury ticket:
"I have these tickets for my journey today. Would you like me to alight here just now, or would you like me to remain on board to Pewsey and then double back to here in an hour's time before I alight?"

I believe that in this specific instance, and only this instance, then stopping short cannot be captured by the "failing to produce a valid ticket" requirement, nor does it deprive any Company of revenue, nor does it fail the "valid for the journey" test with the present lack of clarity of what constitutes a journey.

Purely theoretical, though, and of absolutely no help to the OP whatsoever!!!

 

[wintonian]

I'm not so sure. As I mentioned on this post in the Megatrain topic as far as I can determine the instructions for staff for break of journey when not entitled to are as follows:

"Charge the difference between the fare paid and
the appropriate Single fare for the overall journey
being made that allows break of journey."

That's not the same as "Charge for a new full Single fare for the journey being made" and is likely to be significantly different in this case (it was only £1 difference in the Megatrain case).

My source for the above quote is the East Coast revenue manual. However although this doesn't speak for FGW, East Coast appear to have a policy of letting customers out of stations without charge, as we found out when Professor Evans' unpaid fare notice issued at Durham station in September 2010 was cancelled (I also was informed, via PM, by EC gateline staff who expressed surprised that the Professor was issued the UPFN, as they informed me they were instructed to let people out in such circumstances, but with a warning that if they tried to resume their journey they'd not be able to resume on that ticket).

(We also know that LU will let people out at intermediate stations on cross-London transfers, but the transfer is considered expired once out of the system and a new ticket would need to be bought to resume on LU. This obviously does not speak for FGW though).

Finally, lying to staff is not advised or condoned.

Yes you are right that’s what I meant to say, but obviously I didn't.

S.16 of the NCCoC set out the excess for break of journey when not permitted.

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.

--------------------

ok i was just going by your quotes in post 27,
Also is there anywhere that defines the definition of Break of journey? is it getting off the train and reboarding the next service, or just when you leave the station facilities?

I know the answers but unsure if they are included in the T & Cs, for less knowledgable travellers. Such information surely should be available as to what a break in journey means.

Yes the NCCoC states:

For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your
journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff.

 

[dzug2]

I proposed this hypothetical conversation in the vestibule of the train arriving at Westbury between the Guard and the passenger holding the Padd - Pewsey ticket and also the Pewsey - Westbury ticket:
"I have these tickets for my journey today. Would you like me to alight here just now, or would you like me to remain on board to Pewsey and then double back to here in an hour's time before I alight?"

But the train on which OP is arriving at Westbury isn't going to Pewsey - it's going on the Taunton/Exeter direction. It hasn't stopped at Pewsey - either running non-stop through or arriving at Westbury by a different route. So he can't remain on board.

He gets off and until he leaves the station is perfectly legal, having a ticket to Pewsey in half an hour's time. The chances of being able to leave the station unchallenged during that half hour are very high.