All Line Rover
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If it's part of the "Light Bites" service, then all I can say is - WOW! They'd better introduce it on Super Voyagers between Crewe and Birmingham!
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London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service
- Thread starter MidnightFlyer
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If it's part of the "Light Bites" service, then all I can say is - WOW! They'd better introduce it on Super Voyagers between Crewe and Birmingham!
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voyagerdude220
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If it's part of the "Light Bights" service, then all I can say is - WOW! They'd better introduce it on Super Voyagers between Crewe and Birmingham!
I don't see why not- It was a pre-packed chilled item, which could be stored in the fridge in the galley has far as i'm aware.
The train I was on at the time, was a Birmingham to Glasgow service last Tuesday, which was unusually a Pendo.
telstarbox
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sake!
StrollerEd
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voyagerweb
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Just a quick take On the weekend service. I got four sandwiches Which were wrapped in packaging and coke plus a small chocolate date bar which I thought was actually quite decent for a weekend.
Reply to my email came by email.
One reason I think it is a standard email is that mine was a general rather than specific complaint about the new catering, but EC said:
From the details you gave, I am not sure whether you informed staff at the time regarding your dissatisfaction.
I did actually express my disappoinment when using the buffet, but response from staff is nearly always that they agree & please write to EC.
One reason I think it is a standard email is that mine was a general rather than specific complaint about the new catering, but EC said:
From the details you gave, I am not sure whether you informed staff at the time regarding your dissatisfaction.
I did actually express my disappoinment when using the buffet, but response from staff is nearly always that they agree & please write to EC.
StrollerEd
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I think it would help if reports of food offereings and consumptions were qualified by the distance travelled, so short, medium and long-haul passengers could appreciate what others are denouncing or celebrating.
I call of course for the standard measure of 'sandwiches per mile'
So, Voyagerweb, was that 4 divided by what?
More than enough from KGX to Peterborough I'll guess but not really fodder for the Flying Scot.
Perhaps for ease of arithmetic we should switch to the old Imperial measure of 'sandwiches per hour', sometimes converted for scientific use as 'calories per hour travelled'
I call of course for the standard measure of 'sandwiches per mile'
So, Voyagerweb, was that 4 divided by what?
More than enough from KGX to Peterborough I'll guess but not really fodder for the Flying Scot.
Perhaps for ease of arithmetic we should switch to the old Imperial measure of 'sandwiches per hour', sometimes converted for scientific use as 'calories per hour travelled'
StrollerEd
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if all you get is a standard reply then this (received and posted here on Old 6th June 2011, 08:29) is all the more disappointing:
it being now 5 days since I rec'd that reply, then perhaps the response to the email I sent on 27th May was due today and will arrive real soon now ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
it being now 5 days since I rec'd that reply, then perhaps the response to the email I sent on 27th May was due today and will arrive real soon now ...
Used 1st class for the first time since the changes on Thursday, a short journey from Newcastle to York. Offerred tea and coffee almost immediately, with the trolley of drinks then food coming round before Darlington (was in the front carriage of 1st class which is why it took longer). Was offered a sandwich, cake, and crisps. Slice of cake was nice. Not sure what meals were on offer, so would expect something more substantial on a longer journey.
voyagerweb
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I also note no menus on a weekend so no idea what was on offer
If the choice of food is poor, or it isn't served because of lack of time/supplies, then how does complaining to the staff 'on the ground' help. Of course they'll ask/expect you to write to EC.
It seems a little silly to expect the people on the train to deal with the problem. They can't stop the train to restock! The issues affecting the service begin before the train sets off.
However, whatever they write (knowing that these days any letter, whether sent by post or email, will possibly wind up in a newspaper, forum, Twitter or Watchdog) they will have to be thinking there's a problem behind the scenes. If they lose any revenue, that's what will make the difference.
Sadly, it's only a loss of income that is likely to change things. But, if people are all unhappy then it's a given they will begin to lose money/customers.
It seems a little silly to expect the people on the train to deal with the problem. They can't stop the train to restock! The issues affecting the service begin before the train sets off.
However, whatever they write (knowing that these days any letter, whether sent by post or email, will possibly wind up in a newspaper, forum, Twitter or Watchdog) they will have to be thinking there's a problem behind the scenes. If they lose any revenue, that's what will make the difference.
Sadly, it's only a loss of income that is likely to change things. But, if people are all unhappy then it's a given they will begin to lose money/customers.
StrollerEd
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I fear you might be right about having to vote with your wallet.
The sooner they change the sooner to return as custom
The sooner they change the sooner to return as custom
Failed Unit
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I doubt east coast will be monitoring accounts for change in usage, although I am now as blatant as booking virgin tickets through there website, I don't think they will care. I can't see the Dear Mr Unit, we have noticed you have not travelled as much with east coast in first class could you please take a moment to explain why not. Although the compliant has gone in still no reply as the battle through the high volume.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FourAnd a Coffee?
Don't forget the round and fat current bun with a cherry on top
Or just a nice steak sandwich of the kind they used to sell from the at seat menu
If EC isn't monitoring the situation like that, more fool them. Think how much money Tesco has made, partly down to its Clubcard system that allowed the company to keep tabs on customers (not in a sinister way, as I doubt they really care about me as a person) and tailor offers for individuals.
Tesco also gets to see when I don't shop there for a while, hence me getting special offers to entice me more often than normal (we rarely shop at Tesco now, bar petrol occasionally).
Now, obviously they can't monitor people who by something in Tesco without a clubcard, or buy a train ticket without being logged in, but if EC had any sort of reward system for people who booked through their site, more people would login and the benefit would be the ability to see if people did suddenly stop buying tickets. Or, if they changed to buying different tickets.
From what people have been describing on here, EC may as well operate more like an airline and just have two choices - meat or vegetarian - and then go down asking people what they want. No choice, take it or leave it. Far easier than taking orders and coming back.
The problem with a train is that the exact passenger numbers may not be known before departure (given those boarding with an open/walk-on ticket and no reservation) and people come and go. This is something that is made far easier for the crew on a plane, or indeed Eurostar.
Tesco also gets to see when I don't shop there for a while, hence me getting special offers to entice me more often than normal (we rarely shop at Tesco now, bar petrol occasionally).
Now, obviously they can't monitor people who by something in Tesco without a clubcard, or buy a train ticket without being logged in, but if EC had any sort of reward system for people who booked through their site, more people would login and the benefit would be the ability to see if people did suddenly stop buying tickets. Or, if they changed to buying different tickets.
From what people have been describing on here, EC may as well operate more like an airline and just have two choices - meat or vegetarian - and then go down asking people what they want. No choice, take it or leave it. Far easier than taking orders and coming back.
The problem with a train is that the exact passenger numbers may not be known before departure (given those boarding with an open/walk-on ticket and no reservation) and people come and go. This is something that is made far easier for the crew on a plane, or indeed Eurostar.
StrollerEd
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good post.
EC need to think and engage with how they want to project into each segment of their market. Unlike airlines they are dealing with a mix of short-haul and long-haul, with some in between. The long-haul must necessarily value on board catering more than the short-haul - and EC need to smell their own coffee on that.
I agree that its then about simplifying the process, and realising the impact of one provision on another - what some have called the unintended consequences of policy. Sometimes you can think of those ahead of time; sometimes you just have to recognise it after the fact and then act quickly.
The free-at-seat food delivery to all is upsetting so many parts of their value proposition to long-haul passengers that they must decide either to abandon that segment of the market or do something to retain them.
What is free should be easily dispensed with minimum of fuss.
For the long-haul passenger, the no frills cheap flights become a viable alternative if EC do not engage with their needs. The extra pre-board waiting with planes can be used effectively as good food is available at airports. And as I experienced recently, some of that good food is quite cheap.
If the train is not to offer good well-cooked away from seat catering, then the distribution of the at seat offering to long-haul passengers has to be satisfactory, efficient and avoid causiing disturbance to all other First Class ticket holders. Would a voucher provided to long-haul passengers help? Its presentation resulting in a hamper basket of delights?
EC need to think and engage with how they want to project into each segment of their market. Unlike airlines they are dealing with a mix of short-haul and long-haul, with some in between. The long-haul must necessarily value on board catering more than the short-haul - and EC need to smell their own coffee on that.
I agree that its then about simplifying the process, and realising the impact of one provision on another - what some have called the unintended consequences of policy. Sometimes you can think of those ahead of time; sometimes you just have to recognise it after the fact and then act quickly.
The free-at-seat food delivery to all is upsetting so many parts of their value proposition to long-haul passengers that they must decide either to abandon that segment of the market or do something to retain them.
What is free should be easily dispensed with minimum of fuss.
For the long-haul passenger, the no frills cheap flights become a viable alternative if EC do not engage with their needs. The extra pre-board waiting with planes can be used effectively as good food is available at airports. And as I experienced recently, some of that good food is quite cheap.
If the train is not to offer good well-cooked away from seat catering, then the distribution of the at seat offering to long-haul passengers has to be satisfactory, efficient and avoid causiing disturbance to all other First Class ticket holders. Would a voucher provided to long-haul passengers help? Its presentation resulting in a hamper basket of delights?
Probably already been mentioned but I don't see the need for a quiet coach in 1st class - seems a waste of money to me if they have changed things.
Even if EC do monitor loadings in 1st class since the changes were made, is there really that much scope for doing a U turn when the franchise will be put out to tender in the near future?
Even if EC do monitor loadings in 1st class since the changes were made, is there really that much scope for doing a U turn when the franchise will be put out to tender in the near future?
Loadings are up in 1st. The 'new franchise' will be committed to providing this level of service as a minimum.
This entire change is to encourage more people to travel by train rather than plane, hence the similarities.
At the weekend we are meant to ask whether the passenger wishes the Meat or Vegetarian option - although at the weekend the service is very different.
The Quiet Coach is just another thing people expressed an interest in. And it's hardly a waste of money as all that's changed are a few signs telling you it's the quiet coach, it is also being taken up quite well. There are some issues on the HSTs as there is a constant noise from the kitchen fans.
Some people are still over-complicating the entire thing, and there's lots of people telling us how they weren't offered a meal or they weren't offered this etc. There is a menu and really the Crew Leader should announce which offer is available.
I have noticed on some trains people are waiting for a member of staff to come through and ask if they wish a meal much like they did with At-Seat Dining - however on a number of trains, crews are taking orders for meals as they come past with the trolley. Neither way is wrong and it really depends on the loadings in First Class and the number of staff on the train as to how the service is delivered.
"I wasn't offered a meal" Followed by "What do you have?". I've been experiencing this myself. Okay realistically unless someone has specifically gone through to take orders for meals the member of staff on the trolley is not going to ask every single person if they wish a meal - alot of people aren't taking the meal. It's fairly simple to ask for it. Yes we are there to provide you with the service advertised and most will go the extra mile to make sure you get it.
I will also be honest I have lost the will to live on some services when I get the same question from every passenger and not a single person has looked at the menu on the table. There are only so many times you can say "Any Complimentary Sandwiches/Snacks/Meals" followed by "I have Egg & Cress or Chicken Caesar sandwiches" Then "Red Pepper & Feta Quiche or Tuna Nicoise Salad" Then "It's Carrot & Pineapple cake" Then "Chocolate Chip & Orange or Shortbread biscuits"
I'll then repeat that to the person sitting opposite, then the person behind them, the person opposite them, then next to them because they had headphones in, then the next and the next and the next, then I'll have to decode some sign language because this person is on their phone. By the end of the carriage I've forgotten how to say half the words particularly 'complimentary' which becomes a mere mashup of letters and sounds. There was one gentleman who could clearly see I had lost the will to live as I asked "Can I get you anything?" (I'd given up with all the spiel by that point)... to which he replied "I'll have the Quiche" Hurraah!
This entire change is to encourage more people to travel by train rather than plane, hence the similarities.
At the weekend we are meant to ask whether the passenger wishes the Meat or Vegetarian option - although at the weekend the service is very different.
The Quiet Coach is just another thing people expressed an interest in. And it's hardly a waste of money as all that's changed are a few signs telling you it's the quiet coach, it is also being taken up quite well. There are some issues on the HSTs as there is a constant noise from the kitchen fans.
Some people are still over-complicating the entire thing, and there's lots of people telling us how they weren't offered a meal or they weren't offered this etc. There is a menu and really the Crew Leader should announce which offer is available.
I have noticed on some trains people are waiting for a member of staff to come through and ask if they wish a meal much like they did with At-Seat Dining - however on a number of trains, crews are taking orders for meals as they come past with the trolley. Neither way is wrong and it really depends on the loadings in First Class and the number of staff on the train as to how the service is delivered.
"I wasn't offered a meal" Followed by "What do you have?". I've been experiencing this myself. Okay realistically unless someone has specifically gone through to take orders for meals the member of staff on the trolley is not going to ask every single person if they wish a meal - alot of people aren't taking the meal. It's fairly simple to ask for it. Yes we are there to provide you with the service advertised and most will go the extra mile to make sure you get it.
I will also be honest I have lost the will to live on some services when I get the same question from every passenger and not a single person has looked at the menu on the table. There are only so many times you can say "Any Complimentary Sandwiches/Snacks/Meals" followed by "I have Egg & Cress or Chicken Caesar sandwiches" Then "Red Pepper & Feta Quiche or Tuna Nicoise Salad" Then "It's Carrot & Pineapple cake" Then "Chocolate Chip & Orange or Shortbread biscuits"
I'll then repeat that to the person sitting opposite, then the person behind them, the person opposite them, then next to them because they had headphones in, then the next and the next and the next, then I'll have to decode some sign language because this person is on their phone. By the end of the carriage I've forgotten how to say half the words particularly 'complimentary' which becomes a mere mashup of letters and sounds. There was one gentleman who could clearly see I had lost the will to live as I asked "Can I get you anything?" (I'd given up with all the spiel by that point)... to which he replied "I'll have the Quiche" Hurraah!
StrollerEd
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just in, a reply - which does not appear to be a standard one but which addresses itself to the points I made, even if it does not agree with my pov:
I still dont see how they can easily make the distinction between long-haul and short-haul travellers without vouchers, but I may ask/suggest.
I still dont see how they can easily make the distinction between long-haul and short-haul travellers without vouchers, but I may ask/suggest.
It seems a strange move to try to gain passengers from air by taking away one of the advantages of travelling by train - a good choice of good quality freshly cooked meals as you travel.
Are people really going to think I'll get the train rather than fly, as now they too offer a free sandwich and drinks?
Breakfast appears fine, but other than that I shall treat EC catering like I do planes on the rare occasions I have to fly - eat before or after, and should they serve anything that I want then treat that as a bonus.
Are people really going to think I'll get the train rather than fly, as now they too offer a free sandwich and drinks?
Breakfast appears fine, but other than that I shall treat EC catering like I do planes on the rare occasions I have to fly - eat before or after, and should they serve anything that I want then treat that as a bonus.
Jonmorris0844 is exactly right. EC need to engage with customers. They do seem to be folloiwng the airline model, but the difficulties they face are apparent with the 70 minute ruling they refer to. The nature of demand on a train with several stops is going to be very different from an aircraft between A and B.
It is the diference between long and short journey passengers that means, in my opinion, that it is a mistake to follow the airline model and provide complimentary food. I doubt that this will attract people from the air tot he train; surely it is much better to offer something that is not available on an aircraft? That might include the extra space, uninterrupted opportunity to work, and the chance to enjoy superior quality food and drink.
It is the diference between long and short journey passengers that means, in my opinion, that it is a mistake to follow the airline model and provide complimentary food. I doubt that this will attract people from the air tot he train; surely it is much better to offer something that is not available on an aircraft? That might include the extra space, uninterrupted opportunity to work, and the chance to enjoy superior quality food and drink.
Blindtraveler
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the fact that at seat fc catering wil be part of the future franchise spec puts in my mind virgin in the driving seat to win and if they lose west coast makes them a dead cert, in my opinion anyway. Agreed ec have had some pritty tough teathing problems since may but liked or disliked as the menue may be by the customers the delivery will doubtless improve.
If brittish rail had, say stil existed today and rolled out a new at seat offer on new WCML trains and then decided to do same on ECML, the process, including menues, delivery, staff training etc would have been far more joined up. Have to agree also with greenback that as an airline passfnger, i?d not be tempted away even from the limmited refinements of easyjet by a beatroot resoto. As a floating passenger who adds up the cost of flight plus airport meal plus transfer and then compares it to both classes of rail travel with and without food and sometimes even chucks a coach in there, i remain opionless.
Wel done all onboard crews for not cracking up!
If brittish rail had, say stil existed today and rolled out a new at seat offer on new WCML trains and then decided to do same on ECML, the process, including menues, delivery, staff training etc would have been far more joined up. Have to agree also with greenback that as an airline passfnger, i?d not be tempted away even from the limmited refinements of easyjet by a beatroot resoto. As a floating passenger who adds up the cost of flight plus airport meal plus transfer and then compares it to both classes of rail travel with and without food and sometimes even chucks a coach in there, i remain opionless.
Wel done all onboard crews for not cracking up!
I wonder if they are over-promising in their ads. A friend of mine whose not into railways used their first class and complained of the poor weekend offer of two types of sandwiches (neither of which he liked) and no hot meal between Newcastle and London. He just had biscuits and a drink the whole way for four hours...
That's unlike East Coast (at least in my experience). I normally find them very good for meals.
StrollerEd
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I've decided to reply to EC with some follow-up comments, altho without much expectation of response. I will 'borrow' some of the remarks made here as they hit the nail very well.
What if that person had been tempted to try the railway rather than the plane? Would they be impressed and tell all fo their friends and colleagues to try it?
Probably not. They would be more likely to tell everyone they meet what a dismal product it is, and make sure that they wer enot minded to use the train themselves!
It's a bit similar to the hapless manager in 2000, who told staff during the fuel protests that this was an ideal time to show passengers the benefits of train travel. Well, yes, if you want them to think that being crammed into a vestibule for three hours is a benefit.
Probably not. They would be more likely to tell everyone they meet what a dismal product it is, and make sure that they wer enot minded to use the train themselves!
It's a bit similar to the hapless manager in 2000, who told staff during the fuel protests that this was an ideal time to show passengers the benefits of train travel. Well, yes, if you want them to think that being crammed into a vestibule for three hours is a benefit.
Blindtraveler
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Failed Unit
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Two points to post 439, the menus are not always there and how are you supposed to know which menu you are looking at anyway? The 1630 used to offer dinner pre-timetable change, now it is the 2 sandwiches offer.
Exactly how are east coast going to tempt people from the airlines when the perfect train from Edinburgh - London is the 1625 another one on the 2 sandwiches offering! That is not good enough for that length of journey time. Virgin on the West coast would offer dinner, but east coast don't think that southbound passengers should have anything other than sandwiches and booze. At least previously you had at seat as the minimum!
Oh and I have yet to go on ANY Anglo-Scottish service with a hot option during the day, some have given them all away, but that is still not good enough. I do understand the current offering is probably good enough for the majority of east coasts passengers in terms of numbers there are a lot larger than the Anglo-Scottish but if you think that the current offer is going to get people out the planes you are wrong it will send people to the planes. You don't gain passengers by giving them a pathetic complimentary offer and send them to the buffet if they are still hungry to queue with the standard class passengers. This is exactly what east coast are doing now. If you used to use the 1200 service you have gone from silver service to at seat to sandwiches in a very short timescale. This is a bigger downgrade then national express did.
One day I may get a service with the hot option, but east coast have already lost a lot of business by not allowing this customer to eat without going to the buffet! This one didn't want free wine and was more than happy to pay!
Exactly how are east coast going to tempt people from the airlines when the perfect train from Edinburgh - London is the 1625 another one on the 2 sandwiches offering! That is not good enough for that length of journey time. Virgin on the West coast would offer dinner, but east coast don't think that southbound passengers should have anything other than sandwiches and booze. At least previously you had at seat as the minimum!
Oh and I have yet to go on ANY Anglo-Scottish service with a hot option during the day, some have given them all away, but that is still not good enough. I do understand the current offering is probably good enough for the majority of east coasts passengers in terms of numbers there are a lot larger than the Anglo-Scottish but if you think that the current offer is going to get people out the planes you are wrong it will send people to the planes. You don't gain passengers by giving them a pathetic complimentary offer and send them to the buffet if they are still hungry to queue with the standard class passengers. This is exactly what east coast are doing now. If you used to use the 1200 service you have gone from silver service to at seat to sandwiches in a very short timescale. This is a bigger downgrade then national express did.
One day I may get a service with the hot option, but east coast have already lost a lot of business by not allowing this customer to eat without going to the buffet! This one didn't want free wine and was more than happy to pay!
The offer for the Inverness trains is quite poor, but then EC don't want to serve the Highlands anyway, according to Elaine Holt. So it makes sense for them to try and drive passnegers away on that run so that they can then say there's nod emand for thr through train!